Johnny D
Don Corleone
Creature of the Night Forever
Posts: 2,093
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Post by Johnny D on Nov 23, 2011 16:33:03 GMT -5
I don't remember Jericho EVER going over HHH except for that one RAW in 2001 in which the decision was reversed later anyway, so no way I'd remove him from the list. But yeah, Booker was the ultimate burial for me too.
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Post by Big Daddy Bad Booking on Nov 23, 2011 16:40:39 GMT -5
Can someone please explain the RVD one to me? I've seen it mentioned a lot over the years. I only remember them having one PPV match in 2002 right after HHH became champion where Ric Flair turned heel on RVD and joined HHH to set the stage for the formation of Evolution. How is this a burial in any fashion? Did other stuff happen between them that I’m forgetting? . BADLY botched Five-Star Frog Splash at Survivor Series 2002 in the Chamber.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 23, 2011 16:56:54 GMT -5
Even more baffling was that promo they had during a contract signing on SD where they had Hunter shoot cannonball sized holes through the foundation of Punk's character, while they were still trying to get him established as a face. To me, HHH's problem was that his arguments were too rooted in logic. Note how he rightly pointed out there were still a lot of fans that didn't find the shows boring, and he was understandably mad at Punk for insulting his family (after he rehired the guy, no less). I agree that it didn't do Punk any favors. Right now, he needs a more buffoonish, stuffed shirt character like Laurinaitis to play off of- that dynamic is more fitting to the crux of Punk's ideology. But still, how could you not feel for Hunter there?
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Post by Savage Gambino on Nov 23, 2011 17:13:18 GMT -5
He buried everyone on this list so bad... all of them except Hurricane eventually became WWE Champion.
Drew McIntyre begs the wrestling gods for that kind of "berried".
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 23, 2011 17:14:51 GMT -5
RVD wasn't buried, but the big thing there is that RVD SHOULD have been champ at some point in 2002 or 2003. Hell since RVD debuted in the WWF in the Summer of 2001, it's hard to remember anybody getting better reactions than him. Really until his Smackdown move. Even when he was randomly teamed with Kane or Booker, people cared what he did. I understand he messed up in 2006, but that was after he became burnt out and unmotivated in his spot. Would a motivated RVD as champ not been money?
Booker was buried. Despite getting a couple shots on Smackdown in 2004, Booker wasn't a true contender for the title until he became King Booker.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Nov 23, 2011 17:16:06 GMT -5
idk, there was always something about Booker T's pushes in the WWE post-InVasion that told me that he was in on some kinda huge inside joke with the Kliq. I think Booker wanted HHH to play the 'race card' in their feud since obviously nobody is gonna try to make a proud Black man feel inferior in subtly-racist promos without his say so on National TV.
My reason for this is not just HHH's burial, but also HBK's burial when the WWEnWo was still going strong. HBK made this big point about saying "SOMEONE stands out here in our mostly-all-white-except-for-one-Black-guy-group" (paraphrasing) and even had the crowd chanting "Book-ker" right before Sweet-Chin-Musicking 5-Time outta the nWo in a very embarrassing way. (search for "Shawn Michaels superkicks Booker T" to check it out)
But of course the only reason this was done was because at the time Booker T was getting way too over to be held back by an undead stable. Just-- the way that he was taken outta the group seemed like it was another 'racist gag' that some people would treat as this big controversial screwjob. Which is I guess the point since storylines like that one, Katie Vick, Val Venis' castration, etc. were created specifically to push buttons.
All of this is to say, the fact that we still remember this storyline years later as some huge travesty against Booker T (the face) by HHH (the heel) is exactly what the WWE writers wished.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Nov 23, 2011 17:43:14 GMT -5
He's hurt a lot of people, and sapped a lot of people's momentum: he made Jericho look like a joke, stalled Punk's push, and has more or less punked out and de-legitimized every non-main eventer he's gone up against. And even with all of that said, there aren't a lot of people he's actually "buried." I'm with BURY_US, that term gets thrown around way too much.
With all that said, he did bury RVD; that can be said with a straight face, because he wouldn't even be considered for the main event again until 2006, and I'd wager that was wholly because of ECW. Booker T, he severely hurt with a broken feud, but at least Book was back in heavyweight title feuds within a year, and heavyweight champion in three.
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Post by AztecaDragon on Nov 23, 2011 17:48:40 GMT -5
So did it all work out in the end? Yes. Punk is as hot a character as ever and he's probably going to be the champion heading in to Mania. No harm was done. But does that make what they did any less flippin' stupid? No, not to me. But surprising? Hardly, just status quo with Hunter and the booking committee IMO. I wouldn't say he's as "hot as ever," either. That's really my problem with it. Triple H needed to go full-on corporate heel here. CM Punk was the hot-new face coming off a white-hot feud for the title, Triple H hadn't had a match since WM and it's been a while since he even wrestled regularly. Triple H playing the bad guy then taking the fall to Punk is exactly what we needed, I say. Now I'm sure CM Punk isn't in those dingy shorts crying into his bowl of CM Crunch, wearing his best-selling shirt, while on his private bus that came stocked with Grant Morrison's New X-Men run, but really... They're slowly trying to rebuild Punk, it's just the thing is THEY NEVER SHOULD'VE BEEN IN THIS POSITION. It's like instead of CM Punk potentially being massively popular in any way outside of wrestling, it's like now CM Punk is just...popular... There's so many things they needed from Triple H in that feud; would it have killed them for Triple H to be as shady as CM Punk said he was? Would it have killed them to have Triple H take the fall in the tag match? Would it have killed them if Triple H reigned back on taking shots on Punk or if CM Punk recounted in painstaking detail (w/ awesome production vid), nearly a DECADE of Triple H (ALONG WITH STEPHANIE!) being a smarmy, unrepentant, self-centered finny-nins? Normally they wouldn't mention it, but that's a bit of continuity I'd count on CM Punk to drop on Hunter whenever Hunter got all indignant. CM Punk should've meticulously hung Aitch's past around Hunter's neck like a dead albatross. It's just for whatever reason, they never did it. So wow that we're at the other end of it, what did we even get out of Punk/Hunter? Did it cement Punk as a main-event player? I'd say the Cena feud did that. Did it further galvanize the crowd to the new face's side to where he got support OVER the legendary Triple H? Nope. Did it even provide a compelling storyline that was logically sound? Maybe, until Kevin Nash texted himself and everything fell apart. Did he help put over any new faces in the upper-mid to midcard? No...he even pointed out how useless them and a majority of his champions were, but at least he put over Punk as someone who mattered. So...yay? Even the one thing we might've gotten from this was wasted as the Agents of Chaos, Miz and Truth got booked like dopes immediately afterwards. What's left is we have a possible Kevin Nash/HHH feud. In 2011. </end rant> One thing I have to say for it? At least it didn't have any racism... Oh, and to say that "Were's STILL talking about Booker/HHH so the writers did their job!"? To this day, Vince Russo still uses that logic to justify David Arquette holding the WCW title. That logic is just silly to me when you deliberately write your show just so people can talk about it for years to come strictly because it was so horrible ("Any publicity is good publicity!"). It comes off as a lack of perspective. Come on, this isn't The Producers... EDIT: Not to mention that Triple H lost his COO job ANY-FRIGGIN'-WAY. Not because the guy he feuded with actually won anything, but because Triple H kicked too much ass at the wrong time then EVERYONE ELSE walked out on him. WHATEVER, WWE. WHAT-****ING-EVER.
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giffyjames
Bubba Ho-Tep
we'll be back!!
Posts: 620
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Post by giffyjames on Nov 23, 2011 17:51:11 GMT -5
you really should watch raws leading up to mania.........."get me a towel" was one of the most f***ed up things i ever saw on tv Seriously; Triple H completely trashed any accomplishment Booker made in WCW (I'm guess this was another case of Vince getting a final take that at the promotion) and every promo was pretty much about how someone like Booker could never become successful in a "real promotion." I understand that Booker was considering retirement (and Goldberg eventual return to wrestling also played a role in booking) but Booker T was completely buried throughout the entire feud. And he didn't become a legitimate main eventer again until 2006 (he had two title matches in 2004, but calling him a main event then would be like Saying Morrison was a main eventer this year.) why would u ever compare booker and john morrison? not even close
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Nov 23, 2011 18:29:18 GMT -5
He buried everyone on this list so bad... all of them except Hurricane eventually became WWE Champion. Drew McIntyre begs the wrestling gods for that kind of "berried". Not at his expense, though. Jericho was put over by the Rock and Austin, 2 of the biggest stars of the era, but he couldn't go over Triple H? Booker got his title from Rey Mysterio and RVD got his from Cena, while Punk got his from Edge, Hardy and Cena.
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Nov 23, 2011 18:44:03 GMT -5
See, the Londrick thing wouldn't have been so bad if they had done something else with them after, but they didn't do anything when they were on RAW. It was just pointless. Austin did stuff like that all the time to lower card guys. Them not doing anything with London and Kendrick was totally the Front Office. On their Highspots shoot, they talk about how when they went to Titan Towers for a tour and Shane McMahon was really friendly with Gene Snitsky and offering him cigars, and him pretty much ignoring Londrick. Kendrick asked Shane why weren't there any posters of Tag Teams on the wall and he said he hasn't cared about a Tag Team since LOD. I've also read that London and Kendrick were Tag Champs for like a year, and Vince never watched their matches. That right there shows that the WWE doesn't give 2 craps about Tag Teams. So, it's not a case of Triple H burying 2 guys. It's the WWE showing that Tag Teams don't matter.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 23, 2011 18:52:27 GMT -5
I voted for RVD. Jericho has been buried so much by HHH over the years that it's almost the status quo at this point, and Jericho has somehow managed to survive his various burials. The Booker storyline was definitely the worst, but even if Booker had gotten some sort of title win there he would have just jobbed it right back to set up the HHH/GB feud. Besides, I've never really seen Booker as a consistent main eventer.
But Van Dam? That was a supreme, epic burial and you could see it coming from a mile away. RVD in 2001-02 was the epitome of a guy that would terrify HHH: He had a massive following, was from a smaller promotion, and had far more athletic talent than HHH could dream of. So yes, HHH basically went on TV and said "Van Dam isn't main event material" and then they did the match where Flair turned heel....then nothing. No rematches, no nothing. Yes, RVD did mess up the frog splash at the first Elimination Chamber (where the cage top was very low compared to now), and that was all the added evidence HHH needed to bury him. By early 2003 RVD was stuck in a pointless tag team with Kane, then jobbed to Kane in order to set up a Kane/Shane feud, then tagged with Booker (a team of HHH burials), then went to SD and did nothing.
The RVD one stands out to me since he was/is my favorite wrestler, and because of all the guys on the list he is the one who could have really been a terrific main event guy if he hadn't been buried.
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Post by crimsonwolf on Nov 23, 2011 22:16:18 GMT -5
Take Punk and Jerhico off the list and you can make at least a decent case for everyone else on that list. Punk sure, but I have to leave Jericho on it. I can't have watched the last 10 years of those two on TV together and not think something was up at some point at least. Triple H got upset over all of the Jericho/Stephanie fanfiction on the net during the Attitude Era.
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Post by crimsonwolf on Nov 23, 2011 22:23:07 GMT -5
Seriously; Triple H completely trashed any accomplishment Booker made in WCW (I'm guess this was another case of Vince getting a final take that at the promotion) and every promo was pretty much about how someone like Booker could never become successful in a "real promotion." I understand that Booker was considering retirement (and Goldberg eventual return to wrestling also played a role in booking) but Booker T was completely buried throughout the entire feud. And he didn't become a legitimate main eventer again until 2006 (he had two title matches in 2004, but calling him a main event then would be like Saying Morrison was a main eventer this year.) why would u ever compare booker and john morrison? not even close Because John Morrison got a brief main event push this year. As did others like Ziggler and Truth. My point was, getting one or two title shots is meaningless in the long run if you aren't consistently pushed. Booker didn't get that until 2006.
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Post by Cela on Nov 23, 2011 23:06:28 GMT -5
Probably everyone hes ever faced to be honest. He's buried an awful lot of guys, but to be fair there were exceptions. He tapped to Benoit when he could have had HBK do it instead, and he tapped to Taker's Hell's Gate at the last Mania when he could have either been the one to break the streak or lost via pinfall. You know, beating the living crap out of a guy for the entire match, hitting their own move on them, and making it so they had to be carried out on a stretcher after hitting a fluke submission hold is not exactly putting someone over.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 23, 2011 23:24:01 GMT -5
He buried everyone on this list so bad... all of them except Hurricane eventually became WWE Champion. Drew McIntyre begs the wrestling gods for that kind of "berried". RVD and Booker didn't become Champs until 2006, Jericho didn't sniff a top belt again until 2008. So sure, they bounced back eventually, but that still doesn't make what HHH did okay. Neither does it mean HHH had anything to do with them winning belts later on.
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Post by wcw on Nov 23, 2011 23:34:09 GMT -5
Thing is a loss is not a burial. In any match usually someone has to lose. A burial is when the party that comes out on the short end of the feud comes out looking like a complete jabroni. A lot of the loses on the list aren't burials, someone just had to lose.
Booker T looked like a complete joke in his Mania feud with HHH. Its a storyline based on racism where the oppressed black guy loses? That makes Booker out to be a joke. London and Kendrick also looked like jabroni's out there. I am sure there are others that HHH has made out to look foolish but those two come to mind big time.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Nov 24, 2011 0:39:37 GMT -5
Booker T, sucka!
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Post by Cam on Nov 24, 2011 0:44:47 GMT -5
Chris Jericho around WMX8 for sure. Whether it was his fault or not, I don't know.
Booker T didn't get it THAT bad. He should have won at WMXIX, but he didn't get buried. Jericho looked like a f***ing chump.
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Post by King Boo on Nov 24, 2011 0:52:09 GMT -5
He's buried an awful lot of guys, but to be fair there were exceptions. He tapped to Benoit when he could have had HBK do it instead, and he tapped to Taker's Hell's Gate at the last Mania when he could have either been the one to break the streak or lost via pinfall. You know, beating the living crap out of a guy for the entire match, hitting their own move on them, and making it so they had to be carried out on a stretcher after hitting a fluke submission hold is not exactly putting someone over. Also, the idea that Taker is an exception to Triple H is kind of a ludicrous example. It's Taker. Hunter losing to him means nothing to the man's already incredible legacy outside of him being another number in the streak. Can we really cite him as some shining example of how generous Hunter can be with another wrestler? It's kind of absurd to even imply that Hunter should/would have to be generous to Taker. I doubt anyone involved in that match saw it as that, either.
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