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Post by VengeanceGOD on Nov 24, 2011 14:55:26 GMT -5
Cody, thankfully, has overcome this, but he had a potentially huge moment where the crowd was BEGGING him to kill Orton, and they did nothing with it, even dubbing over his chants.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 24, 2011 15:02:33 GMT -5
How could I forget Mark Henry in 2009? When he was the last guy in the gauntlet against Orton, and proceeded to destroy him. The crowd was going insane for Mark, and instead of setting up a feud between Mark and Orton, Mark went into a tag team. Cody, thankfully, has overcome this, but he had a potentially huge moment where the crowd was BEGGING him to kill Orton, and they did nothing with it, even dubbing over his chants. Ted also had that to an extent. He had the match with Orton where Orton told Ted not to hit him, and the crowd was begging Ted to attack Orton. They really screwed up the booking for Ted and Cody a couple of times. Off topic: But some of these moments show how great of a year Orton had in 2009. The guy was the hottest star in wrestling, had crowds going nuts for him, but was such an effective heel people wanted to see him get his comeuppance.
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The Punisher
Unicron
"They don't fear the law. They fear me..."
Posts: 3,082
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Post by The Punisher on Nov 24, 2011 15:07:58 GMT -5
How could I forget Mark Henry in 2009? When he was the last guy in the gauntlet against Orton, and proceeded to destroy him. The crowd was going insane for Mark, and instead of setting up a feud between Mark and Orton, Mark went into a tag team. Cody, thankfully, has overcome this, but he had a potentially huge moment where the crowd was BEGGING him to kill Orton, and they did nothing with it, even dubbing over his chants. Ted also had that to an extent. He had the match with Orton where Orton told Ted not to hit him, and the crowd was begging Ted to attack Orton. They really screwed up the booking for Ted and Cody a couple of times. Off topic: But some of these moments show how great of a year Orton had in 2009. The guy was the hottest star in wrestling, had crowds going nuts for him, but was such an effective heel people wanted to see him get his comeuppance. I think the problem with Orton in 2009 is that he headlined virtually every PPV against Cena, because they had so many matches, they got overexposed, and because the hatred for Cena was probably at its nadir at that point, Orton, in my opinion, suffered by association.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,161
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 24, 2011 15:28:13 GMT -5
The thing with this is... not everyone can be the next Austin. We can't have EVERYONE be the most over guy on the roster. Pushes like Austin's take time and effort. Yes, but there are also the iconic moments that help, usually there are several. HBK: The Barber Shop, the splash from the ladder, the Wrestlemania zip line entrance. Austin: 3:16, the bloody face, the pull apart with Tyson etc.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 24, 2011 16:00:22 GMT -5
In 1998, when Kane was incredibly over as a heel and seen as a monster, just to be fed to Undertaker repeatedly (and then to lose to Austin a few times). He again got huge in 2003 after taking the mask off and even got Goldberg pinned, but of course got fed to Taker yet again. He's been able to bounce back consistently, but it's alarming how many times he's been huge just to get fed to Taker.
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Post by norsisclouds on Nov 24, 2011 16:00:38 GMT -5
Well, there was Chris Jericho's phantom title win when he beat Triple H. Yeah, he ended up becoming the Undisputed Champion, but his reign screamed placeholder. It wasn't until several years later that he was legitimately in the title hunt. Kofi Kingston is definitely another case. Honestly outside of arguably botching Orton's punt (which is a completely idiotic reason to cut off someone's push), Kofi's only crime was that the crowd started to turn Orton face (which still, does mean you shunt him back to midcard feuds again.) At risk of ridicule, I'm also going to say Matt Hardy. Smothering though that promo Smothering did not do him any favors, Matt Hardy was over as hell in 2005, even after he was moved to Smackdown. Part of the problem was that he got lost in the shuffle after Eddie's untimely death. Prior to that, it was pretty clear he was going to be feuding with Orton (who may have ended up winning the title off of Batista). But after Eddie died, Orton was put on the SS team, Rey Mysterio became the top face, and Matt just lost whatever push he had left. Whenever I need to laugh and cry at the same time I watch that Matt Hardy promo. Its such a disaster, even the crowd starts booing him in the middle and JR 'sis reaction to the car accident line is amazing. It's just so depressing on so many different levels.
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Post by misconduct was wrong on Nov 24, 2011 16:56:08 GMT -5
In 1998, when Kane was incredibly over as a heel and seen as a monster, just to be fed to Undertaker repeatedly (and then to lose to Austin a few times). He again got huge in 2003 after taking the mask off and even got Goldberg pinned, but of course got fed to Taker yet again. He's been able to bounce back consistently, but it's alarming how many times he's been huge just to get fed to Taker. It's because Kane is a highly respected veteran by everyone backstage, and because he's one of the best all time at selling his character.
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Post by eJm on Nov 24, 2011 16:59:59 GMT -5
In 1998, when Kane was incredibly over as a heel and seen as a monster, just to be fed to Undertaker repeatedly (and then to lose to Austin a few times). He again got huge in 2003 after taking the mask off and even got Goldberg pinned, but of course got fed to Taker yet again. He's been able to bounce back consistently, but it's alarming how many times he's been huge just to get fed to Taker. It's because Kane is a highly respected veteran by everyone backstage, and because he's one of the best all time at selling his character. Very few people can have a big comeback over and over and over again and still get a big face pop every single time. Kane is very much one of those guys. He's survived EVERYTHING and is still over.
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Post by johnnybaseball, Mantaur Fan on Nov 24, 2011 20:32:06 GMT -5
Austin's entire career just shows you that you never know exactly what you'll get from a wrestler if you give them the right gimmick and a good push, so I wouldn't want to say this for sure, but to me, guys like Kane and Kofi (two people mentioned on this thread) aren't going to be the face of the company, and so it makes sense to build them up only to feed them to someone else. Everyone can't be in the main event, so when you're getting a push, they're either going to go all the way with it, or more likely, use your momentum to make main-eventers look stronger.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Nov 24, 2011 22:11:17 GMT -5
You could easily have set up Rock vs Cena for the Wrestlemania a YEAR after WM 27 by doing something other than Russo-ing the main event of WM 27 (e.g. what they did this year) QFT. How hard would it have been for Nexus to intimidate the referees and no one would agree to ref Cena/Barrett until the Rock stepped in. Cena wins, it begins the end of Nexus and Rock Rock Bottom's Cena afterwards to help plant the seeds for WM28. They failed on Wade's star making moment.
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Post by flatsdomino on Nov 24, 2011 23:04:00 GMT -5
It is amazing how many theyve missed. But Wade Barrett is the worst, it was RIGHT there slap bang in their face, and they killed him. They had Cena make the Nexus look like a total joke for a month, and then Cena literally buried Barrett at TLC. Oh, and this is after your evil mastermind heel sets up a match where the special referee is in his favour because the referee loses his job in case of an Orton win. That angle couldve easily carried itself to WrestleMania if you had Barrett win. Honestly, in retrospect I think that's the route they may have went but then Rock agreed to work with the company, finally allowing them to do the Rock/Cena dream match. I still say having Cena build himself back up in a redemption angle to face Barrett at Wrestlemania and take down the Nexus once and for all, with THE ROCK being the secret weapon joining the fight not for Cena (who he makes it clear he's against, just as he did) but against Nexus, aiding Cena in beating Barrett but closing WM with a staredown that would tease WM28, would have been PERFECT.
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Post by johnnybaseball, Mantaur Fan on Nov 24, 2011 23:09:50 GMT -5
Honestly, in retrospect I think that's the route they may have went but then Rock agreed to work with the company, finally allowing them to do the Rock/Cena dream match. I still say having Cena build himself back up in a redemption angle to face Barrett at Wrestlemania and take down the Nexus once and for all, with THE ROCK being the secret weapon joining the fight not for Cena (who he makes it clear he's against, just as he did) but against Nexus, aiding Cena in beating Barrett but closing WM with a staredown that would tease WM28, would have been PERFECT. Wow. It's stuff like this that makes me wish some of the people here (you, specifically, and others as well) really did work with WWE, because that would have been awesome, and so much better than Cena/Miz was.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Nov 24, 2011 23:33:09 GMT -5
Austin's entire career just shows you that you never know exactly what you'll get from a wrestler if you give them the right gimmick and a good push, so I wouldn't want to say this for sure, but to me, guys like Kane and Kofi (two people mentioned on this thread) aren't going to be the face of the company, and so it makes sense to build them up only to feed them to someone else. Everyone can't be in the main event, so when you're getting a push, they're either going to go all the way with it, or more likely, use your momentum to make main-eventers look stronger. I disagree. You almost never know who is going to get over and to what degree, even more so if you don't give the guys a real shot. As people have mentioned there are tons of people from the past few years that have gotten hot and almost immediately had nearly all their momentum stopped dead. Heck, guys like Hogan, Rock, and of course, Austin weren't as over as they eventually became at first. In fact Rock was to the point that he was likely going to be a huge flop if they hadn't taken a chance with the guy and let him be the character that draws people still to do this day. Just imagine those characters nowadays. If Rock had flopped in this era than he likely would be on Superstars jobbing to the likes of Mason Ryan. If Austin had remained the Ringmaster these days he would likely be out there doing autograph signings and trying to make ends meet. Heck, the biggest star they have right now almost got cut back in the day. Imagine how bleak the business would look today if they had done the same thing with Cena and simply cut him loose? Honestly Vince hasn't created a real star in years. Cena was the last one. You could argue Batista as well, but that had more to do with Triple H putting the guy over. And again that was another feud that was nearly rushed. Imagine where Batista would be nowadays if they hadn't gone with the slow build and just thrown Triple H and him on one of those B shows? I dare say that Vince has actually forgotten how to make someone into a star. Either that or the guy is so insecure that he is constantly second guessing himself. Why else do you hear people always talking about the guy always changing his mind, sometimes three times before a RAW airs?
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Nov 25, 2011 0:25:24 GMT -5
I'm gonna say Kendrick. The WWE Championship scramble was his time to shine. Final answer.
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Post by dreamer75 on Nov 25, 2011 0:38:52 GMT -5
I dare say that Vince has actually forgotten how to make someone into a star. Either that or the guy is so insecure that he is constantly second guessing himself. Why else do you hear people always talking about the guy always changing his mind, sometimes three times before a RAW airs? I think he is scared because all of his greatest creations turned their back him and some thought they were above Vince. If all he has is Cena he can control him easier (and create a replacement if needed ) than trying to control a few megastars
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 25, 2011 1:29:02 GMT -5
DDP - Massive ovation when he debuted in WWE....then he was pushed into the stalker/motivational speaker gimmicks, both of which sucked
Alex Riley - Got over during his feud with Miz....then seemed to vanish without trace
Kofi Kingston - Was getting over as a serious singles wrestler when he destroyed Orton's car....but WWE kept him as the new Koko B Ware.
Jack Swagger - Debuted and looked like a cross between Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle....but then WWE insisted on having him play a lisping, gormless moron, which he is still playing to this day.
CM Punk - Was making waves with his worked shoot, promising to bring about change and even replace the spinner belt in his feud with Vince and Cena....but then Kevin Nash, Triple H and Johnny Ace were brought into the storyline, no changes occured, no belt change occured and the whole thing turned into a clusterfudge.
Nexus - Their attacks were incredible. Most interesting material seen on WWE for a long time. Demolished everyone in their path and looked hungry and dangerous and promised a bigger picture....but then no bigger picture was revealed and they all got slaughtered by Cena.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 1:36:47 GMT -5
Alex Riley - Got over during his feud with Miz....then seemed to vanish without trace That though was his own fault apparently. His depush seemed to happen just after he sandbagged Swagger.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 25, 2011 1:52:24 GMT -5
For Drew his star making moment should have been after Elimination Chamber, but they proceeded to do nothing with him after that. I was going to post that. He looked like a beast in the Chamber match, and it led absolutely nowhere. Seriously this. He came out of that match looking like a million bucks... arguably the best of everyone involved and they did absolutely nothing with it.
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Post by Zabel Zarock on Nov 25, 2011 4:12:33 GMT -5
Cody, thankfully, has overcome this, but he had a potentially huge moment where the crowd was BEGGING him to kill Orton, and they did nothing with it, even dubbing over his chants. To this day this still boggles my f***ing mind.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 25, 2011 5:17:54 GMT -5
Alex Riley - Got over during his feud with Miz....then seemed to vanish without trace That though was his own fault apparently. His depush seemed to happen just after he sandbagged Swagger. And his overness went down after feuding with Miz. I like A-Ry, but his overness was more because of how over Miz is as a heel.
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