ROH on Sinclair 17/12/11: Final (Battle) Countdown

[Steveweiser]

This week is the last episode of Ring of Honor on Sinclair before Final Battle takes place on Friday night on iPPV, so you know they'll be going all out.

This episode focuses on the main event in Manhattan on Friday, as in this week's main event, ROH World Champion Davey Richards is being taken to the Proving Ground by "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin. As the All Night Express were able to do to Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team last week, if Elgin defeats Richards, or goes the full 15 minutes with him, he'll get a future ROH World Title shot. Eddie Edwards certainly hopes that will happen.

Speaking of "Die Hard", the other half of Friday's main event will also be in action... though on paper, his match is far easier than Davey's, as he takes on Andy "Right Leg" Ridge. Eddie will be hoping to breeze through this and then watch Davey be ripped apart, although Ridge will be looking to prove he's more than just a stepping stone.

There will also be a review of this Friday's card - will Shelton Benjamin have recovered from the vicious attack by the Briscoes last week to be able to take them on and defend the titles with Charlie Haas? Will Mike Bennett's demands be met ahead of the three way for the TV Title? Will we find out who will take on Roderick Strong? And will we hear any more from Kevin Steen, Steve Corino or Jim Cornette?

Find out all these things as we head ever closer towards Final Battle.

[Steveweiser]

This show did a great job of putting over Eddie's Dragon Sleeper - first dropping Andy Ridge down with it and making him tap immediately, and then getting Davey into it and making HIM tap immediately. That show ending pull-apart was a great way to go home to the iPPV.

Davey/Elgin in its own right was a great physical matchup, showing the sort of quality Davey should expect on Friday night. Elgin is going to be a beast in 2012.

My only negative was that they didn't go any further in establishing the Steen/Corino match, thought that needed another video package myself.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

I liked the show but I though that the Ridge/Edwards match went too long. I don't know much about Ridge but Edwards is challenging the World Champ this Friday while Ridge will not even be on the show. Ridge should not have gotten in as much offense as he did. Honestly, that's a problem that a lot of the squash matches that take place on ROH TV have. The job guy gets in way too much offense. Other than that pet peeve, I liked the show and I really liked Richards V. Elgin.

[baronmordo]

I agree-jobbers get way beyond the usual token offense in ROH, and I have no idea why. It's just bad practice.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2011 14:10:42 GMT -5 baronmordo said:

I agree-jobbers get way beyond the usual token offense in ROH, and I have no idea why. It's just bad practice.

I'm of two minds about it because in a traditional sense it isn't the most logical. But in the sense that ROH only recruits the best of the best it's sound logic to have even the jobbers have a bite to them. These matches are essentially squashes when you think about the fact that when ROH roster members go at it, it usually goes over ten minutes. Their jobbers don't have the same luck but they aren't easy rides either. It also helps to give compelling, competitive wrestling on TV while not burning out potential PPV matches I think.

This was a good show, I agree there should have been some representation on the Steen/Corino front. Would have been perfect to have Jimmy Jacobs say how he's gonna call things at Final Battle because he's been mostly mute since coming back in ROH. New viewers don't have much of a sense of who he is. Also wish that Tomasso Ciampa vs. Jimmy Rave got some on screen attention.

I'm stoked for Final Battle and I have no idea what to expect from the main event, will it be chock full of Truth/Team Richards/Dan Severn intervention? Will it be a clean fight? Will Edwards take shortcuts?

I also wondered during this show if Dan Severn isn't setting up Eddie for disaster. Richards DID come to Severn first after all.

EDIT: I'd also like to say, MVP awards for this show go to Truth Martini's hat. The wrestlers did a great job and all but they should strive to be as good as Truth Martini's hat.

[Mr. Socko's Brother]

Nice opener between Andy Ridge and Eddie Edwards. Obviously Ridge was gonna lose, but Eddie made him look good before finally putting him away.

Eddie's delivery in this week's promo was adequate, I'd say. He could stand to get better, of course, but as long as he's not monotonous it's a step in the right direction.

Richards vs. Elgin was also quite good. I'd like to say here that Davey has been criticized for no-selling, sometimes justifiably so. You could argue that he shouldn't have come back from being slammed onto the floor. What makes him different from SuperCena, though, is that Davey acted significantly weakened for an extended period after taking that bump. He got an offensive move on Elgin that stunned him and then, unlike what Cena would have done, Davey promptly collapsed alongside Elgin, exhausted. He did eventually seem to return to full strength, but it took him a while, and all that time Elgin was looking like a beast and even doing some no-selling of his own. And not that I'm a fan of no-selling, mind, but when you have two guys able to shrug off each other's offense then it seems a lot more evenly matched than when only one guy is being invincible. I liked the finish, which had Davey win with a sunset flip out of nowhere. That made it seem like Elgin could have really won if he were just a split second quicker to react.

I actually found the recap in the middle of the show to be entertaining and I think it provided a nice build for "Final Battle".

Dec 19, 2011 14:10:42 GMT -5 baronmordo said:

I agree-jobbers get way beyond the usual token offense in ROH, and I have no idea why. It's just bad practice.

I disagree. I would not find Eddie impressive if he just squashed the guy. See, it's one thing to beat the crap out of a near-helpless victim who is totally outmatched. It's another thing to face somebody who can trade shots with you, who can hit you with all he's got...and in the end, you still emerge victorious.

On top of that, ROH needs to be constantly building guys up, because they never know when they're gonna lose somebody else. Ridge used to just be a jobber. But when I saw him live just a little over a year ago, he faced Mark Briscoe and held his own. He ultimately lost, but Mark gave him props after the match was over. In addition, while a look at event results on the ROH site reveals Ridge has lost the bulk of his matches, he does have a recent victory to his name against "Sampson". I've never heard of Sampson, but that's beside the point. The point is that the guy has been more than a jobber for quite a while now; he's been a guy who can hang with the rest of the roster, but has fallen just short of being a consistent winner. Booking Ridge this way makes you believe that he has potential, so that if and when he finally starts winning matches--like O'Reilly and Cole did, for example--it won't seem so much like "WTF, how come this pathetic jobber is suddenly winning?"

[The Scuba Guy]

Loved the show. Loved Truth's hat.

My question is this: what goes on the show next week? I believe these were the last of last months Louisville taping, so do the Road Rage, or whatever it's called show up on this weeks show?

[Steveweiser]

Kevin Kelly told me it's a best of next week.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

In regards to the people who are saying that jobbers should "bite back" so to speak - I definitely see your point but I've always been of the state of mind that in a match featuring a main eventer and a jobber (I know Ridge is a regular member of ROH but I haven't seen that much of him on TV so I'm going to assume he is not that high up on the card), the goal of the match should be "Put the ME over strong and let him showcase all of his signature moves in a dominant victory", not "Let's have a 4 minute back and forth match that the ME wins." There really isn't a point to a back and forth match because the outcome is never in doubt. Edwards is challenging for the World title at Final Battle, ain't no way in hell he is going to lose to ANDY RIDGE on the go-home show.

Again, maybe I'm underestimating Ridge and he is a bigger player than I thought he was but the guy doesn't seem to be all that big a player in ROH or even featured that heavily. If ROH wanted to give Edwards a back and forth match before Final Battle, that's fine. Hell, even if he had a back and forth match with Ridge on damn near any other show, I would be fine with it. But it shouldn't have been against Ridge, who rarely wins, on the show before Final Battle, one of ROH's biggest shows of the year. That was the point I'm trying to make. It was the wrong kind of match at the wrong time.

[The Scuba Guy]

Dec 20, 2011 10:26:56 GMT -5 Steveweiser said:

Kevin Kelly told me it's a best of next week.

Best of what? 3 months of a TV show? Really? Whatever, I'll take it.

[Mr. Socko's Brother]

Dec 20, 2011 12:12:47 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

In regards to the people who are saying that jobbers should "bite back" so to speak - I definitely see your point but I've always been of the state of mind that in a match featuring a main eventer and a jobber (I know Ridge is a regular member of ROH but I haven't seen that much of him on TV so I'm going to assume he is not that high up on the card), the goal of the match should be "Put the ME over strong and let him showcase all of his signature moves in a dominant victory", not "Let's have a 4 minute back and forth match that the ME wins." There really isn't a point to a back and forth match because the outcome is never in doubt. Edwards is challenging for the World title at Final Battle, ain't no way in hell he is going to lose to ANDY RIDGE on the go-home show.

Again, maybe I'm underestimating Ridge and he is a bigger player than I thought he was but the guy doesn't seem to be all that big a player in ROH or even featured that heavily. If ROH wanted to give Edwards a back and forth match before Final Battle, that's fine. Hell, even if he had a back and forth match with Ridge on damn near any other show, I would be fine with it. But it shouldn't have been against Ridge, who rarely wins, on the show before Final Battle, one of ROH's biggest shows of the year. That was the point I'm trying to make. It was the wrong kind of match at the wrong time.

Well, look at it this way: when Alberto Del Rio faced Zack Ryder on Raw recently, there was practically no doubt as to the outcome there either. Short of outside interference, ADR was going to win. But having Ryder do well against ADR for a while before being beaten made Ryder look good. And it didn't make ADR look bad, since ADR won the match.

In the same way, having Ridge do well against Edwards makes Ridge look good. And if they ever decide to push Ridge, having it established that he can put up a fight against more accomplished wrestlers helps his credibility.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Dec 20, 2011 17:55:10 GMT -5 Mr. Socko's Brother said:

Dec 20, 2011 12:12:47 GMT -5 Magic knows Black Lives Matter said:

In regards to the people who are saying that jobbers should "bite back" so to speak - I definitely see your point but I've always been of the state of mind that in a match featuring a main eventer and a jobber (I know Ridge is a regular member of ROH but I haven't seen that much of him on TV so I'm going to assume he is not that high up on the card), the goal of the match should be "Put the ME over strong and let him showcase all of his signature moves in a dominant victory", not "Let's have a 4 minute back and forth match that the ME wins." There really isn't a point to a back and forth match because the outcome is never in doubt. Edwards is challenging for the World title at Final Battle, ain't no way in hell he is going to lose to ANDY RIDGE on the go-home show.

Again, maybe I'm underestimating Ridge and he is a bigger player than I thought he was but the guy doesn't seem to be all that big a player in ROH or even featured that heavily. If ROH wanted to give Edwards a back and forth match before Final Battle, that's fine. Hell, even if he had a back and forth match with Ridge on damn near any other show, I would be fine with it. But it shouldn't have been against Ridge, who rarely wins, on the show before Final Battle, one of ROH's biggest shows of the year. That was the point I'm trying to make. It was the wrong kind of match at the wrong time.

Well, look at it this way: when Alberto Del Rio faced Zack Ryder on Raw recently, there was practically no doubt as to the outcome there either. Short of outside interference, ADR was going to win. But having Ryder do well against ADR for a while before being beaten made Ryder look good. And it didn't make ADR look bad, since ADR won the match.

In the same way, having Ridge do well against Edwards makes Ridge look good. And if they ever decide to push Ridge, having it established that he can put up a fight against more accomplished wrestlers helps his credibility.

Yeah, I definetly see your point. If ROH does ever decide to build up Ridge, they really can't let him lose in 2 minutes in every match he is in.

[baronmordo]

Ridge is pretty much like every other ROH student except Rhett Titus-booked to be a big nothing. ROH students have pretty much either been completely unsuccessful, or only successful in other companies.