Johnny D
Don Corleone
Creature of the Night Forever
Posts: 2,093
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Post by Johnny D on Oct 16, 2012 10:37:54 GMT -5
So I finally saw the ending to the Sting vs. Hogan match and I've just found out one of the many reasons why WCW isn't around now. That was a complete f'up and actually made the faces look bad. Apparantly Patrick was meant to count much faster than that.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 16, 2012 10:52:44 GMT -5
So I finally saw the ending to the Sting vs. Hogan match and I've just found out one of the many reasons why WCW isn't around now. That was a complete f'up and actually made the faces look bad. Apparantly Patrick was meant to count much faster than that. Yes. The announcers sell it as if it were a fast count and Bret Hart acts as if he is protesting a fast count. Bret Hart almost looks genuinely annoyed at what happened, knowing that Patrick didn't give a fast count. Hogan's never admitted to putting Nick Patrick up to it, but I still think Hogan was behind it. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 11:25:11 GMT -5
I've heard that Sting was supposed to kick out of a normal 2-count, Hogan would hit a second legdrop, and this time Patrick would do a fast count.
In his book, Eric Bischoff said he doesn't know what went wrong, but he would have fired Patrick if he thought it was an intentional screw up.
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DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
Posts: 11,989 
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Post by DragonMasterP on Oct 16, 2012 11:46:30 GMT -5
That match was just all wrong. If they had just given it a clean Sting over Hogan finish, the whole thing could have been avoided.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Oct 16, 2012 15:23:02 GMT -5
The unanswered question is why Sting didn't kick out. If he just lies there with his shoulders on the mat, it doesn't matter if the count takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes. Mysterious all the way around.
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Post by secretJOKER on Oct 16, 2012 15:25:56 GMT -5
The unanswered question is why Sting didn't kick out. If he just lies there with his shoulders on the mat, it doesn't matter if the count takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes. Mysterious all the way around. Well, it's a tough situation. It's probably one of those "in all the confusion, I got my head turned around" things, and he just stayed down for some reason. I've never looked at that side of it, though. |
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Oct 16, 2012 15:27:10 GMT -5
IMO worst match of all time for all the damage it did. The whole match was a clusterbluff, the ending was just the exclamation point and the total opposite of giving the fans what they wanted.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 16, 2012 15:41:18 GMT -5
There were a bunch of issues. These points might not all be accurate but it's putting different sources together to try and make an accurate picture.
1.One Hogan got protective of his spot and wanted to win the WCW title back at the next ppv, but was told no.
2.Hogan decided he didn't like the ending of getting beat so easily, and felt Sting hadn't done a good job of getting himself in shape for the match, so used his creative control.
3. Sting didn't totally trust Hogan at the time because of how he had treated Ric Flair and Vader in the prior years.
4. The fast count was the only finish they could get Hogan to agree to.
5. The match was changed so much leading up to the match, Nick Patrick forgot the changed finish. There was supposed to be a fast count, but it was supposed to be after Sting had already kicked out of one legdrop. Hogan wanted to keep his finisher protected still so they nixed the kickout of the first one. Patrick forgot that that part had been taken out and counted 3.
Or there is the belief that Patrick and Hulk conspired against Sting but I don't believe that
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Oct 16, 2012 15:57:40 GMT -5
^
I don't buy the conspiracy against Sting either -- Sting didn't kick out. How could they conspire to do a slow count and assume Sting would just lay there?
Unless ... Sting screwed String?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 16:10:58 GMT -5
^ I don't buy the conspiracy against Sting either -- Sting didn't kick out. How could they conspire to do a slow count and assume Sting would just lay there? Unless ... Sting screwed String? Everyone else has screwed Sting over so I guess it was only a matter of time. |
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Post by thetimetraveler on Oct 16, 2012 16:11:08 GMT -5
In a lot of ways the end of the match was the end of WCW. They'd completely kill what they had left at the next year's event when Nash beat Goldberg.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Oct 16, 2012 16:21:25 GMT -5
This match should have been overbooked but not the way it was. Sting should have beaten the crap out of Hogan for the first 5-8 minutes... There should have been limitless nWo interference, they should have teased Patrick being a biased ref throughout the match (missing nWo rule breaking) Bret should have come down but NOT counted the fall, but helped to run off the nWo, Sting should have had a superman comeback and beaten Hogan clean. And obviously the "fast" three count shouldnt have happened.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 17:15:50 GMT -5
The blame goes to either Sting (for not kicking out) or Patrick for not counting fast. Or maybe both.
The ending, as stupid as it was even if they did it perfectly, was pretty simple. Have a Patrick screw Sting, have Bret (who just got screwed by Hebner in Montreal) reverse the decision and then Sting wins when the match is restarted. Like i said, a stupid ending as this year long feud didn't need Bret to drag it down, but if done properly it would have at least made sense.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Oct 16, 2012 20:21:59 GMT -5
if the finish is meant to be a fast three count then Sting had to wait for three for the match to go to it's proper conclusion
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 16, 2012 20:54:11 GMT -5
In a lot of ways the end of the match was the end of WCW. They'd completely kill what they had left at the next year's event when Nash beat Goldberg. nah, the plan they had in place then was good, but for various reasons that got thrown to the side. The crowd turned on Goldberg during the fall. The entire idea was to give Goldberg at least 9 months of program after Starrcade 98 starting at the bottom of the nWo Elite and going up. But those plans changed. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 16, 2012 21:44:58 GMT -5
Hogan should have taken a beating and then submitted to the SDL cleanly
Bret should not have been involved at all.
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Post by sfvega on Oct 17, 2012 0:03:46 GMT -5
The unanswered question is why Sting didn't kick out. If he just lies there with his shoulders on the mat, it doesn't matter if the count takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes. Mysterious all the way around. Because that's what the plan was? I've heard a few theories on what was supposed to happen, but the bottom line is that I trust Sting. The guy is a consummate professional, and if he's doing something, I trust it's because that's what he was told to do. If the plan was a fast count, and Patrick gets it confused or doesn't do it because Hogan got to him, you don't kick out. That only compounds problems. Now, when Hart comes out, it doesn't make sense. So you have to then communicate to Hogan to do it again, communicate to Patrick to fast count, communicate to Bret not to do anything yet because it wouldn't make any damn sense. Sting was in a bad position, and made the best of it. In the end, WCW had a great idea and execution of something in Sting. The Crow gimmick and transformation was done perfectly, and was a game-changer for Sting. He got crazy over, and he became the hottest, best thing in wrestling that year. But WCW went and WCW'ed it. First with Luger beating Hogan clean with NWO run-ins before, de-valuing Sting's year-long chase. For a rating on a weekly show. Genius. Then, the overly-complicated Hart involvement, when you could have used him 1,000 better ways. Then letting Hogan be Hogan. And the whole thing was just the biggest collapse of anything in wrestling history. A year of booking down the drain, and a start of a snowball that ran downhill until the place closed it's doors. They got in their own way. All you had to do was sit back and let the simple idea unfold. Sting chases for a year, leading to Sting beating Hogan from pillar to post at the biggest show of the year, and forcing Hogan and NWO back to the drawing board. The fact that they let not one thing (Nitro rating/Luger), not two things (forced Hart involvement), but three things (Hogan being Hogan) get in the way just shows the flaws that eventually kill them. They had a million dollar idea and out-smarted and ou-maneuvered themselves to where it disappointed people more than anything. |
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Post by YiHammer on Oct 17, 2012 3:46:11 GMT -5
Didn't Hogan dominate pretty much all of that match as well with Sting getting only a handful of offense?
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 17, 2012 5:30:22 GMT -5
if the finish is meant to be a fast three count then Sting had to wait for three for the match to go to it's proper conclusion Fair point, but unless he can't hear he should know the difference Sting: Ok, fast count finish.....1......2.....this isn't so fast, maybe should kick out? 3..... Wouldn't he have thought that?? |
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