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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 14, 2012 18:38:08 GMT -5
Regarding Superman, is their argument over HOW he was revived, or that he was revived in general after such a monumental story? Because if it's the latter, than that's a dumb reason. Why would DC permanently kill off their most iconic superhero, the most iconic superhero ever? That's dumb. It seems more like how it was done, with all the Superman extras and also how the death was survived, with the thing in the FoS. It think the main issue is that was the point when people knew that Death in comic books was cheap. Reign of the Supermen was awesome though. And people knew death in comics was cheap well before that. No one that was a regular reader of comics thought Superman was gonna stay dead. No one. And honestly, given comics roots in mythology, resurrections aren't really to be that unexpected. They can be lame, and usually are, but in a way they're just following myths that gave them their template to begin with. Plus, with serialized fiction, one thing you're never going to get is complete, lasting change if the story is gonna roll on for decades. That's either good or bad depending on your perspective, but that's just the way it is.
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Post by Evilution E5150 on Jun 14, 2012 18:44:34 GMT -5
Being dead in a comic book is the same thing as having a vacation... Except for Uncle Ben Thomas and Martha Wayne resent this statement! Especially Martha, as I don't think she's ever been able to stay alive even in Else Worlds Stories. Flashpoint says hi but honostly the hate on Brightest day was a little rough but im a huge Deadman mark
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Post by Jiren on Jun 14, 2012 18:45:45 GMT -5
Thomas and Martha Wayne resent this statement! Especially Martha, as I don't think she's ever been able to stay alive even in Else Worlds Stories. Flashpoint says hi but honostly the hate on Brightest day was a little rough but im a huge Deadman mark Martha dies in Flashpoint
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jun 14, 2012 18:55:59 GMT -5
Being dead in a comic book is the same thing as having a vacation... Except for Uncle Ben The first first fridge girlfriend.(Could be wrong tho) Are you referring to Kyle Rayner's girlfriend that was killed and stuffed in a fridge (Can't remember the character's name for the life of me. Alex? Alexandra? Something like that?)
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Post by Yami Daimao on Jun 14, 2012 19:01:47 GMT -5
1. Superman 2. Spiderman 3. Batman 4. Hulk those are your top iconic heroes in orders. I'd argue and say swap Spider-Man and Batman, and add Wolverine as #5.
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Post by Thaal Sinestro on Jun 14, 2012 19:05:56 GMT -5
The first first fridge girlfriend.(Could be wrong tho) Are you referring to Kyle Rayner's girlfriend that was killed and stuffed in a fridge (Can't remember the character's name for the life of me. Alex? Alexandra? Something like that?) Yeah, that's the joke I was going for.
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Post by hossfan on Jun 14, 2012 19:52:38 GMT -5
1. Superman 2. Spiderman 3. Batman 4. Hulk those are your top iconic heroes in orders. I'd argue and say swap Spider-Man and Batman, and add Wolverine as #5. Wonder Woman belongs in the top five before Logan.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 14, 2012 19:55:31 GMT -5
I'd argue and say swap Spider-Man and Batman, and add Wolverine as #5. Wonder Woman belongs in the top five before Logan. Probably, though it's close.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 14, 2012 20:01:36 GMT -5
In recent years Iron Man has really made some strides via the movies. Tons of people know Tony Stark now.
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Post by Yami Daimao on Jun 14, 2012 20:46:16 GMT -5
I'd argue and say swap Spider-Man and Batman, and add Wolverine as #5. Wonder Woman belongs in the top five before Logan. Perhaps. It is close. Although... In recent years Iron Man has really made some strides via the movies. Tons of people know Tony Stark now. ...there is that. That's for damn sure. The same might happen to Thor via other Chris Hemsworth movie appearances. I'm not sure about Cap though, although he should be.
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Post by ronin705 on Jun 14, 2012 21:22:28 GMT -5
I think personally Spiderman is more iconic than Batman due to being the "underdog" archetype out of the four. I think (very bad paraphrasing here) Stan Lee described him as a ninja with bills, which is something none of the other guys on the list have to make them as relateable as Peter Parker. Plus, the whole great power thing has really resonated over all this time.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 14, 2012 21:37:28 GMT -5
I think personally Spiderman is more iconic than Batman due to being the "underdog" archetype out of the four. I think (very bad paraphrasing here) Stan Lee described him as a ninja with bills, which is something none of the other guys on the list have to make them as relateable as Peter Parker. Plus, the whole great power thing has really resonated over all this time. Peter starts off relateable, but torpedoes that with his utter disdain for his powers. Poor or not, it's pretty hard to feel too bad for a guy who gets to swing around the city, somehow not breaking buildings with his web. You'd think he'd yank the windows right out of their frames like this.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 14, 2012 22:18:58 GMT -5
Superman and Batman are totally the top two. I don't think there can be any real legit debate about that.
Spidey is a solid three, but he's not crackin the top two spots.
Lil sidebar to the conversation of iconic- my mom knows who Wolverine is; which surprised me. A couple weeks back I visited, and brought some dvds out. I've done this in the past, as she really liked Dark Knight and both Iron Man movies. Thought Thor was pretty good, Green Lantern was ok, and really liked Captain America. Well this time I brought out X-men:First Class.
I don't think she's seen the other X flicks, or if she has she certainly just watched them in passing, but we're watching First Class, and Jackman's cameo comes up, and mom goes " Well, that's ol' Wolverine."
I'm like, you know Wolverine?
I still don't know where she knew him from, if it's just cuz of Jackman being in a lot of other stuff or what, cuz I'm pretty sure she hasn't seen the Wolverine movie either, but as soon as he popped on-screen, she knew him.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jun 14, 2012 22:23:07 GMT -5
The first first fridge girlfriend.(Could be wrong tho) Are you referring to Kyle Rayner's girlfriend that was killed and stuffed in a fridge (Can't remember the character's name for the life of me. Alex? Alexandra? Something like that?) I can't remember either but I thought that he went to visit his mother and the woman in the fridge was a friend of his mother's who stopped by for a visit at the wrong time when what's-his-name showed up looking for the new GL (I swear that he wanted him for bait to use against Guy Gardner).
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 14, 2012 22:25:56 GMT -5
Are you referring to Kyle Rayner's girlfriend that was killed and stuffed in a fridge (Can't remember the character's name for the life of me. Alex? Alexandra? Something like that?) I can't remember either but I thought that he went to visit his mother and the woman in the fridge was a friend of his mother's who stopped by for a visit at the wrong time when what's-his-name showed up looking for the new GL (I swear that he wanted him for bait to use against Guy Gardner). That's the one. Shortly after Kyle gets the ring, Major Force pays him a visit to try and get the ring from him ( the Gardner stuff was a later storyline), and finds the girlfriend Alex there. He kills her and shoves her in the fridge for some damn reason, and that's where Kyle finds her. What's weird is the panel is drawn in such a way that it looks like he dismembered her first, though I don't think that was the intent.
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Post by hossfan on Jun 14, 2012 22:29:05 GMT -5
Superman and Batman are totally the top two. I don't think there can be any real legit debate about that. Spidey is a solid three, but he's not crackin the top two spots. Lil sidebar to the conversation of iconic- my mom knows who Wolverine is; which surprised me. A couple weeks back I visited, and brought some dvds out. I've done this in the past, as she really liked Dark Knight and both Iron Man movies. Thought Thor was pretty good, Green Lantern was ok, and really liked Captain America. Well this time I brought out X-men:First Class. I don't think she's seen the other X flicks, or if she has she certainly just watched them in passing, but we're watching First Class, and Jackman's cameo comes up, and mom goes " Well, that's ol' Wolverine." I'm like, you know Wolverine? I still don't know where she knew him from, if it's just cuz of Jackman being in a lot of other stuff or what, cuz I'm pretty sure she hasn't seen the Wolverine movie either, but as soon as he popped on-screen, she knew him. You could always see if she'd recognize Wolverine in his "fin-head" costume from the comics.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jun 14, 2012 22:36:59 GMT -5
OK, I looked it up and I was wrong (hey, it was something I read 17 years ago). According to Wikipedia
I could remember the villain properly and I remember someone stopping Kyle from killing Major Force, but I honestly thought it was Gardner.
Edit: I read the Wikipedia entry for Major Force a little more closely and I know why I got confused:
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Post by ERON on Jun 15, 2012 0:06:21 GMT -5
Honestly - every resurrection in comics is pretty damn lame. Dead should mean dead, gone and not coming back. Nick Spencer just killed off one of his main (and most bankable) characters in Morning Glories and stated in an interview that they're not coming back. He might do some flashbacks which is borderline I guess. I've never entirely agreed with the "dead is dead" mentality. Deaths that are meaningful, well-written, and/or integral to the mythos - Uncle Ben, Bruce Wayne's parents, Gwen Stacy, Norman Osborn, Jean Grey, Bucky, Jason Todd, Captain Mar-Vell, Kyle Rayner's girlfriend Alex, etc. - shouldn't be reversed. However, for every well-done, meaningful character death, there are a dozen cheap, hackneyed, shock-value deaths - Wasp, Nightcrawler, Sue Dibny, Betty Banner, pretty much everyone who died during Infinite Crisis - that should never happened to begin with and should be done away with. I also have no problem with the classic ambiguous villain death, where the villain is apparently dead, but no body is found, leaving it open for the villain to return for vengeance someday. That's a staple of adventure fiction that predates comics even.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 15, 2012 8:42:55 GMT -5
So Dorkly is just Cracked now?
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jun 15, 2012 10:14:45 GMT -5
Being dead in a comic book is the same thing as having a vacation... Except for Uncle Ben Actually, Uncle Ben has been resurrected once. Spider-man had done some heroics and Dr Strange gave him a "anything you want" card or something, I don't quite remember. Peter wanted five minutes with Uncle Ben who told Parker he was proud of him, and then when back to being dead. I'm afraid I don't remember which issue it was.
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