Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 25, 2012 19:09:17 GMT -5
Some or all of these contribute:
Higher cost of PPVs 12/13 a Year Unauthorized online streams Bit torrent downloading 3 Hour Raws + 2 Hour SmackDowns (and now Main Event) UFC PPVs (I think this is not as big of an impact as it used to be)
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,312
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Post by Sam Punk on Oct 25, 2012 19:19:13 GMT -5
It's because they aren't pushing Cena enough.
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Post by WarChief on Oct 25, 2012 19:19:52 GMT -5
Too many rematches on every card.
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Post by Corre.222 on Oct 25, 2012 19:22:11 GMT -5
I used to love those good old days when a PPV used to cost $30 in the 1990's. AND NOW? What are they? $45? $55?
Whenever less people are buying your product, there's something you do about it. LOWER PRICES, just as what goes on in any other industry. Yet WWE will stubbornly keep prices high and complain and whine.
Bring them down to the rightful price of $30, which in my opinion is the true price of a PPV if I was being generous. I would buy and so would many others.
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Post by joebob27 on Oct 25, 2012 19:23:53 GMT -5
It's not all pirating. IMO, the shows aren't even being pirated as much as they used to be anymore.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Oct 25, 2012 19:25:18 GMT -5
If you say anything but price, you are over thinking it. $50+ is too much for a show. And about the illegal streamers, they are more than likely not to buy it and wait for the results and rematches on Raw the next night anyway.
On a side note, it is surprising how easy it is to find a stream of that compared to UFC. I have heard of a lawsuit with some sites from UFC but never anything from WWE? (I'm too scared of getting caught to do watch them anyway)
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Oct 25, 2012 19:27:18 GMT -5
I was thinking the cost was a big factor but going by this inflation calculator prices are only about $5.00 more for a PPV in SDTV than they were in 1997 so that isn't as bad as we seem to think. I think the big problems are the obvious ones: Too easy to steal them, the economy sucks so there is less to spend, and the booking just doesn't drive you to see many shows as special. Throw in WWE now making far more money off their TV deals so wanting to make them more important than the PPVs and expect them to fall farther.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 25, 2012 19:31:05 GMT -5
If you say anything but price, you are over thinking it. $50+ is too much for a show. And about the illegal streamers, they are more than likely not to buy it and wait for the results and rematches on Raw the next night anyway. On a side note, it is surprising how easy it is to find a stream of that compared to UFC. I have heard of a lawsuit with some sites from UFC but never anything from WWE? (I'm too scared of getting caught to do watch them anyway) Dana White and UFC have been vigilant about fighting online streams. From what I understand, WWE has started to fight it more as well, but they haven't made a crusade out of it like UFC has.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,660
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Post by thecrusherwi on Oct 25, 2012 20:04:36 GMT -5
I was thinking the cost was a big factor but going by this inflation calculator prices are only about $5.00 more for a PPV in SDTV than they were in 1997 so that isn't as bad as we seem to think. I think the big problems are the obvious ones: Too easy to steal them, the economy sucks so there is less to spend, and the booking just doesn't drive you to see many shows as special. Throw in WWE now making far more money off their TV deals so wanting to make them more important than the PPVs and expect them to fall farther. The inflation comment is a fair point, but the cost of many other things that you buy, namely food and gas, has gone WAY up since the 90s. And I don't care what the inflation rate is, there are certain levels of pricing that will always SOUND too much. $50 dollars, no matter what the actually cost is vs. average purchasing power, is a high enough figure that people are going to think twice before buying.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 25, 2012 20:10:33 GMT -5
No reason to buy them anymore.
Barely a reason to even watch them at all.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Oct 25, 2012 20:29:41 GMT -5
Interesting how "in the last few years" buyrates began to dip ... at almost exactly the same time as:
1) The economy going into the tank and unemployment rising to the highest it has been in my lifetime
and
2) MMA's rise in popularity
A lot less people can afford to order PPVs, especially on a monthly basis. I watch most of the ones I see at a friend's house. Four years ago, he ordered every one of them. I would go over, it would be him and his dad and maybe another friend or two -- more for WM or the Rumble, of course -- and I would always pitch in a few bucks (but I'm not sure anyone else did). Then he lost his job when the economy went under. He now works 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and has had another baby. Now he orders a couple of PPVs a year. I suspect this pattern can be seen across America in various forms.
Also, the same demographic that not so many years ago was into wrestling is now into MMA. College kids, young adults, it's the hot thing. Wrestling, not so much.
I subscribe to the boom and bust theory that every so often someone comes along and revives wrestling -- Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena to a lesser degree -- and that it then goes back to a level where few casuals watch or care until another such true superstar emerges. That hasn't happened yet, but it will.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 25, 2012 21:14:14 GMT -5
I subscribe to the boom and bust theory that every so often someone comes along and revives wrestling -- Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena to a lesser degree -- and that it then goes back to a level where few casuals watch or care until another such true superstar emerges. That hasn't happened yet, but it will. Historically, that boom (Cena doesn't count; he's a business sustainer not a game changer) has only happened when Vince has finally strayed from the previous formula, in which he had stubbornly rode out and drove into the ground. For WWE to catch on again, Vince will have to find the pulse of mainstream again and disregard the broken and stale way he does things. Who knows who that next breakout guy will be. But it won't be on this Variety show format. It'll be when they reinvent themselves again and find that guy who embodies that change.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Oct 25, 2012 21:17:46 GMT -5
Some or all of these contribute: Higher cost of PPVs 12/13 a Year Unauthorized online streams Bit torrent downloading 3 Hour Raws + 2 Hour SmackDowns (and now Main Event) UFC PPVs (I think this is not as big of an impact as it used to be) Throw bad economy in there as well.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Oct 25, 2012 23:32:04 GMT -5
Buys are estimated at 189k, not 89k.
Last year drew 169k buys.
PPV buys are UP this year over last.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,696
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Post by bob on Oct 25, 2012 23:37:53 GMT -5
the price increase/the economy, illegal means, the rise of MMA, lack of new main event stars for the most part the last few years are what I think are the main factors
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 26, 2012 1:04:37 GMT -5
There's a multitude of factors, many covered already, but I'd just like to focus on the creative-centered ones.
I do feel that 12/13 PPV's a year is simply too much, particularly with two weekly shows that regularly feature main event level talent and title defenses. That said, one can point to the nWo/Attitude era and ask why monthly PPV's did so well back then, when wrestling even further saturated the marketplace.
I can't back this up with hard data, but my guess would simply be novelty.
The concept of a big card every single month on PPV format was new in the mid-90's, it hadn't been attempted before.
That said, it only really worked when both companies found a selling point that would get people invested in seeing what happened each month. WCW had the nWo angle, WWF thrived once Austin and McMahon started their feud. Fans were willing to plunk down the money to "see what what happens next", since it felt like each month either had a major storyline turn or what have you.
This developed a consumer habit, fans becoming willing to drop the cash each month to watch the PPV's; these same fans had gotten used to having monthly PPV parties at friend's houses, out of making the shows a social event.
However, the novelty couldn't last forever, and coupled with economic realities, it simply wasn't a fully sustainable formula, at least not in terms of continuously being able to draw 400,000+ buys a month. Over-saturation REALLY sank in, fans didn't have a major alternative to turn to (TNA simply doesn't have the same backing and visibility WCW had), and WWF no longer had major story hooks that fans felt the need to come back to every month.
Fans were willing to drop money to see if Austin could thwart McMahon again, or to see if Sting would show up and finally deal with Hogan once and for all. Fans aren't going to just pay for the same matches every single month, matches that are refought on free TV constantly, matches over belts that don't mean anything anymore, matches that carry absolutely no consequences.
I keep saying this as my biggest critique of the WWE since the Attitude Era; that era was SEVERELY flawed (despite it's big business numbers), but if nothing else, big matches felt as if they had consequences, and if the "right" or "wrong" guy won in the main event, it'd affect seemingly every aspect of Raw the next night.
WWE isn't into that anymore. Rock vs. Cena was supposedly the most important match of Cena's life, yet it had zero impact at all on Cena's character or the show in general. Just nothing. No consequences, no changes, no reason to really be invested in anything.
If you want fans to pay for your shows, you need to offer something they won't just get for free. You either need to offer longer and/or more unique matches compared to what they get weekly, or you need to offer major storyline points that are too juicy or consequential to simply give away for free.
If you're not doing either, why the hell should anybody buy your shows?
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J.O.B. Squad
Don Corleone
On Our Backs Since Birth!
Posts: 1,568
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Post by J.O.B. Squad on Oct 26, 2012 3:58:01 GMT -5
For me I don't watch PPVS cause they cost to much,not to mention alot of PPV matches are shown to us free now adays so for me it makes sense to read up what is happening online than to buy it.
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Post by jimmyjames on Oct 26, 2012 4:33:37 GMT -5
The economy and the cost of PPV. It was easy for fans and even marginal fans to shell out $25-30 monthly or on occasion, especially when wrestling was hot, but now, at $50-55, period, let alone in a bad economy, and with wrestling, arguably on a decline,it's no wonder sales are down.
Even hardcore fans have trouble shelling out $50+ for what is outside of Wrestlemania and a couple of other PPV, is basically Raw with a few accessories.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 4:50:55 GMT -5
Speaking for myself I don't pay full price for PPVs these days at all (illegal streaming/putting £5 into a pot and watching it with a few mates is preferable) and it's not due to the wrestling portion of the shows, it's the drama.
If something is likely to happen in a story I'm interested in I'll pay £__ to see it happen, but when feuds tend to have 3/4 matches a year you realise "why pay to see their first match when their third will be the dramatic blow-off?"
That and if Silver Vision release the DVD 2/3 months later for fairly cheap then I'm cool. Just like with a large percentage of music downloaders I will sample the product and then buy the hard copy CD/Vinyl later on if I like what I'm seeing/hearing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 5:30:23 GMT -5
Repetitive feuds and obvious results certainly don't help. Who in their right mind would pay $50+ to see Del Rio lose yet again in one of the most pointless feuds ever, for the 4th month in a row?
I don't know if we get a good deal in the UK or not. We get 3 'free' PPVs a year (usually Elim. Chamber, MITB and HIAC), and the rest are all £14.95 on Box Office. For me, that's an absolute bargain for something like Royal Rumble or Wrestlemania, but it has to be that price for two reasons:
a) It's broadcast in the wee small hours of Monday morning, which is unreasonable for most viewers, and
b) The Sky Sports package, which is required to watch Raw/Smackdown, costs upwards of £50 per month.
The 3 freebies are great if you have a DVR, and even if you can't stay up to watch the £14.95 PPVs, you can either record them or watch one of the replays that go on for about 3 days. Despite all that, I'm still tentative about buying PPVs because it's not unusual to not get what you've paid for. Despite it being a pretty good PPV overall, the first match of WM28 left a very sour taste in my mouth for the remainder of the show, as much as it helped Bryan in the long run.
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