Decline of the PPV market

[hitch]

It's shocking, I think. The 'domestic' PPV market has seemingly fallen through the floor over the last few years. Latest numbers revealed that NOC may have got just a five-figure domestic buy rate.

If you go back 10 years or so, the vast majority of PPV buys were domestic.

400,000 Backlash 2002
540,000 Summerslam 2002

Those figures would have been domestic buys, almost exclusively as I don't think the international PPV market really started expanding until the decade progressed. Thank God it has though because now with nearly half of buys coming from overseas sources, it's means that at least part of WWE's consumer base is growing.

But to focus on the domestic scene again. Not so long ago, for non-Wrestlemania PPVs, 350,000 - 500,000 was the norm for domestic buys. Now we're possibly talking 90,000

Are they too expensive? Are there too many of them?

Most would say 'yes' to both but even taking this into account (after all 12 PPVs a year has been the norm for a very long time) it surely doesn't account for the complete bottoming out of the domestic PPV market. It's Lehman brothers level, almost.

[PKO]

I don't know how much I can go into it regarding board rules, but I'm honestly surprised they do so well after the rise of the internet.

Cutting a few PPV's and lowering the price would encourage more people to buy I'm sure.

[Straight Edge Scrotum]

I started getting PPVs around 1997 when they were still at $30.00 and the show was 95% actual wrestling.

I haven't gotten a PPV in almost 2 years and the last one was a $50.00 PPV that featured about 60% actual wrestling. That's the deal breaker for me. You don't raise the price (practically double) on a wrestling show then show LESS wrestling on it.

[Deleted]

Too many of them for starters, when WCW started doing 12 they had to follow suit, without competition scaling it back may be beneficial if they could adjust their writing style to build things over 6-8 weeks instead 3-4.

Too many marquee matches given away on free TV, and as a result they don't protect some guys nearly enough and then insult our intelligence by pushing them as a serious threat to try to sell a show at which they will lose again, of course. Dolph Ziggler...gonna be WHC soon most likely, but he has a worse winning percentage than the Cleveland Browns this year.

Jacking up the price in the midst of a recession was a bit of a f*** you move.

The WWE title and WHC dilute each other and push the US and IC titles further down the totem pole. Titles used to be a big draw, the secondary ones were good for pushing people without skyrocketing them too quickly so they have nowhere to go but down. It's still done sometimes, but it's half hearted at best.

There's a lot more reasons, it's more an overall syndrome, these are just symptoms.

[hitch]

When did WWE go to a 12 PPV a year format? I'm not saying that the number of PPVs isn't an issue but, as a stand alone reason, is there any reason why it's now suddenly an issue after being the case since the mid-late 1990s?

[DZ: WF Legacy]

WWE wants people to dump their entire disposable income into their product. They push more DVD sets than ever before, tons of merch/shirts, their collector action figure lines, the video game & it's DLC....something has to give, and in a world where you can easily stream a PPV, that's likely going to be it for some people.

I'd love to see them take the ECW approach to PPVs and just do them every other month. Make it mean something to appear on PPV. Give the matches serious build. Etc. The other option that made sense to me was the WWE Network hosting the B-shows as part of the subscription. You'd subscribe for all the neat shows they'd have, the old matches, etc. and you'd also get a free-of-charge PPV 8 days out of the year. For a reasonable price every month? That sounds like a great deal.

[thelonewolf527]

Oct 25, 2012 17:29:41 GMT -5 hitch said:

When did WWE go to a 12 PPV a year format? I'm not saying that the number of PPVs isn't an issue but, as a stand alone reason, is there any reason why it's now suddenly an issue after being the case since the mid-late 1990s?

Because people like to make up excuses for things without doing any research.

See now, say they go to a 6 pay-per-view a year model. On average, let's say that WWE's shows get 200,000 buys (outside of the big 4). Unless all of a sudden each of the other shows gets 400,000 buys, it's not gonna add up.

[BiloxiParish]

I used to get almost every PPV from 98-2002. After that I would only get WM and Royal Rumble, maybe if a card was stacked a ppv.. For the past 4 years or so I can list the PPV I have ordered with 3 fingers. I love watching Royal Rumble and WM but I just don't have the money in my family budget to shell out 50$ a PPV anymore especially when I damn well know where to find them online for free.

It's also hard to convince my wife to say hey let me spend 50$ to watch this PPV when she knows I can get them for free as well.

Most of the time I just sit in front of the computer with a beer and watch online illegally for free.. I remember watching a TNA ppv, I think it was Austin Aries return and he gave this promo and in the middle of he said "For those watching illegally at home" I was like thinking "I just got called out".

I hate saying that and admitting that but its true..

I also think the majority of IWC probably watches illegally

[PKO]

Oct 25, 2012 17:37:10 GMT -5 BiloxiParish said:

I used to get almost every PPV from 98-2002. After that I would only get WM and Royal Rumble, maybe if a card was stacked a ppv.. For the past 4 years or so I can list the PPV I have ordered with 3 fingers. I love watching Royal Rumble and WM but I just don't have the money in my family budget to shell out 50$ a PPV anymore especially when I damn well know where to find them online for free.

It's also hard to convince my wife to say hey let me spend 50$ to watch this PPV when she knows I can get them for free as well.

Most of the time I just sit in front of the computer with a beer and watch online..

I hate saying that and admitting that but its true..

I don't understand why this is brought up so little.

[hitch]

Oct 25, 2012 17:37:10 GMT -5 BiloxiParish said:

I used to get almost every PPV from 98-2002. After that I would only get WM and Royal Rumble, maybe if a card was stacked a ppv.. For the past 4 years or so I can list the PPV I have ordered with 3 fingers. I love watching Royal Rumble and WM but I just don't have the money in my family budget to shell out 50$ a PPV anymore especially when I damn well know where to find them online for free.

It's also hard to convince my wife to say hey let me spend 50$ to watch this PPV when she knows I can get them for free as well.

Most of the time I just sit in front of the computer with a beer and watch online illegally for free.. I remember watching a TNA ppv, I think it was Austin Aries return and he gave this promo and in the middle of he said "For those watching illegally at home" I was like thinking "I just got called out".

I hate saying that and admitting that but its true..

I also think the majority of IWC probably watches illegally

Undoubtedly. I do. It's not big, it's not clever but...it happens.

So you're saying it's similar to problems facing the music industry, in that I don't know ANYONE who buys CDs anymore. It's all downloads, whether paid for or illegally downloaded.

The music industry fought back in some ways by making the price cheaper, I think, and also increasing availability. Maybe if WWE streamed their PPVs online for $22.99 - yes it's less money than they'd get through the TV but at least probably more people would pay it for a HQ stream.

There would always be an audience of those who want to pay for the HD PPV TV broadcast, so I wouldn't think that audience (small as it is now) is in any danger of not being able to sustain itself at current levels.

[Bo Rida]

The economy and piracy is a major issue but I've seen reports (can't find them now) that state the shows with a higher buy-rate are pirated more, the ones with a low rate aren't pirated as much, in other words even if the card/build-up is poor many won't watch even if they can see it for free.

There's also the fact there's more media than ever often at cheaper prices, you can get a months worth of legal streaming for less than the PPV, many DVD box-sets can be picked up dirt cheap and while more expensive initially many videogames work out far cheaper on a hours of entertainment per hour rate, that's without going into less legal alternatives.
If most of us have less money there’s more economic ways of spending it than two hours of wrestling after you take the dead time out, and while we’re on that adverts on a PPV? We’re literally paying to watch f***ing adverts.

Although it's right there in the name a major thing that prevents me ordering more PPVs is that my recordings atomically get deleted, however I can keep those on Sky Sports forever if I wanted and I'm guessing pirates can to, why should a paying customer get a worse product?

Then there's those that have been burnt by one too many bad PPVs, especially these days when they're often used to further major angles rather than ending them (of course you could say it's been like that since the attitude era any maybe even before), WWE even admit their focus is on Raw now.

Finally there's overexposure, there can be about 13 hours of free wrestling on my TV in a week including TNA PPVs so why pay for a lesser PPV?

[hitch]

Oct 25, 2012 18:06:52 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Finally there's overexposure, there can be about 13 hours of free wrestling on my TV in a week including TNA PPVs so why pay for a lesser PPV?

Not ignoring the rest of your post but as a direct response to this, didn't the boom in terms of PPV buys come at a time when there was Nitro, Thunder, Raw, Smackdown, WCW Saturday Night Heat plus once a month both WWE and WCW PPV events?

With Nitro and Saturday Night being at times 3 and 2 hours respectively that's around 18 hours of broadcast wrestling during a PPV week.

[Dean-o]

It's simple. $55 or whatever it is now is simply TOO MUCH to see the same guys we see once or twice a week for FREE wrestle, often times in rematch after rematch. Hell, I trek up to Hooters every month with friends to watch them, I only order WrestleMania at home now.

[Deleted]

7 of the 9 PPVs so far this year improved upon last year's domestic numbers, so things may be changing.

[Deleted]

The cost, and the fact that it feels like nothing really big ever happens on PPV anymore.

[hitch]

Oct 25, 2012 18:31:46 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

7 of the 9 PPVs so far this year improved upon last year's domestic numbers, so things may be changing.

I think that's due to the fact the overseas market is growing. Every indication is the domestic market is falling fast.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2012 18:40:17 GMT -5 hitch said:

Oct 25, 2012 18:31:46 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

7 of the 9 PPVs so far this year improved upon last year's domestic numbers, so things may be changing.

I think that's due to the fact the overseas market is growing. Every indication is the domestic market is falling fast.

How are the domestic numbers improving a sign that the domestic market is falling?

[The Portable Stove]

I do agree with one issue, and that's the fact that the PPVs don't feel that big anymore. Honestly, you don't get those money matches or rematches that would be perfect for PPV that often unless it's WrestleMania.

Most often, it's a $50 or $60 episode of Raw, right down to some silly sketches going down. It's what pissed me off about the Rumble this year.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Honestly I think it's this. There are a few factors I believe that is the decline.

1. PPV Prices. They are IMO to high but they do it because of the HD stuff. Which is all fine but the economy is not what it use to be. Even in 2002 it wasn't as bad as it is now. When you think how much cost of living is and stuff like gas prices. It cost more for a fan to do there every day living so they make cuts and likely would be a PPV expenses. Which more fans likely did so when the average PPV now cost about as much as a tank of gas.

2. The Product: Back in 2002 there was a ton of very popular talent. And more guys was featured for most of that year. Yes after Summerslam it went down hill. But Summerslam in 2002 was a stacked card. You had Brock vs. Rock. You had the return of HBK. You had stuff like Rey being the hot hand. For so long the WWE put all there balls in on one guy in Cena. They are afraid too allow anybody but Cena be a top face. Nobody else seems to be allowed to ME but Cena.

Look at Punk. The WWE champion for the last year and yet the only time he MEed is when he faced Cena. Nobody is being booked the way Cena as been since he became a MEer. Unless your someone like HHH, Taker or a big star from another era. They won't let anybody be the Rock to Austin so to speak.

3. Over exposed, it's fine with Raw and Smackdown. But when you have 13 hours of Free TV and a bunch of recap of the same stuff. Fans loss interest. Fans can only see the same John Cena segments from Raw so much during the rest of the show. Sure WCW had 18 but how many different stars did we get? A lot more then we do in the WWE.

4. There demographic. 2002 was still more to the teenagers and adults. Compared to the PG more kids friendly types. Who buys the events? The adults. How many moms you think will still be ordering the PPVs for there kids? Then you take that number to the fans who turned away from the WWE because not liking the PG stuff. It maybe a small number but still effects the numbers.

5. Streaming online. As hard as the WWE has and rightfully so cracked down on this. People are still finding ways to find a stream online for free. Yes it is against the rules to promote that and stuff likely I am pushing for talking about it. BUt it does play likely one of the bigger factors on the declines. As internet based the general public is anymore. People still think most of the fans are still out of touch about the internet stuff when in reality is the other way around.

Other wise stuff like Bryan and Punk who both where internet darling became big because most fans got behind them from there indies work because the net again. The iwc IS more the majority of the fans anymore.

I disagree to many PPVs. Because there been 12 PPV years since 96.

[deadstock]

The shows that build up to the pay per views aren't great there not bad but not great.
Why would i pay 54$ for a PPV that has mediocre build up an predictable results.