So...Piper Burning the Bridges Again?

[Rolent Tex]

If the topic is off limits, feel free to lock up mods. Not sure if it was posted already and taken down.

So after the comments that Roddy Piper made about a certain wife of Vincent Kennedy McMahon and her "extracurricular activities", is Roddy going to be blackballed from the E for a while or will he still do his Legends thing?

For those that missed it, Roddy basically called out Linda for spending $90 million on her activities outside of the WWE...money that was earned off the blood and sweat of the boys. He called her out for spending that much when the boys are denied health insurance and retirement benefits and that a lot of the midcard had to pay for their own hotel rooms for their families and themselves at Mania this year when the show grossed over $100 million. He also compared it to Vince pissing away money on the bodybuilding fed.

Will we see the Hot Rod in a WWE ring again?

[hitch]

I'm in two minds.

1) Go Roddy

2) Shut up Roddy

It's their money. They earned it. They'd have been the ones who if it went wrong would suffer the hardships. The wrestlers would just move territories.

On the other hand when you have guys who worked for them for years and drew a ton of money who are in pain, agony and hardship who could be cared for for what is a drop in the ocean to the McMahon's - it makes you wonder.

THEN you think 'but where does personal responsibility' come in? A lot of the top guys at least were hardly under rewarded for their contributions.

Without meaning to get 'political' the idea that you need to spend $90m just to LOSE an election stinks BIG time.

[BiloxiParish]

I f'n love the hot rod

[Legion]

Ignoring the political stuff, my main issue, once again, is with these old guys who blew their money on booze and blow expecting someone else to look after them because they failed to invest or save wisely.

Sorry, you had your time, and you were paid for it. Much like with the Kirby family and their attempts to get rights for characters from Marvel, I say no.

People are paid for the time they work, if you dont set aside some of that money for your future, knowing that there is no safety blanket (and they all go in knowing this), or knowing that you are working under a contract that pays you there and then but that makes no promises for the future, it is your choice to take that deal and if you do, that is it. You can't go back and complain later because you dont like how something worked out.

[BigJerichool222]

I don't know if there was a lot of, if any pissing at all going on at the WBF.

[hitch]

Nov 8, 2012 11:13:48 GMT -5 Legion said:

Ignoring the political stuff, my main issue, once again, is with these old guys who blew their money on booze and blow expecting someone else to look after them because they failed to invest or save wisely.

Sorry, you had your time, and you were paid for it. Much like with the Kirby family and their attempts to get rights for characters from Marvel, I say no.

People are paid for the time they work, if you dont set aside some of that money for your future, knowing that there is no safety blanket (and they all go in knowing this), or knowing that you are working under a contract that pays you there and then but that makes no promises for the future, it is your choice to take that deal and if you do, that is it. You can't go back and complain later because you dont like how something worked out.

I agree but I also see merit in the other argument. This isn't an ordinary job. Yes they have a choice, but 'choice' in these circumstance is 'work 60 nights in a row or your family goes hungry'

...okay they have a 'choice' to get into the business but once you're there, there choice doesn't really exist. Especially when it can be argued Vince deliberately avoided paying medical and healthcare benefits for his employers so they HAD to work and work and work and work and work and couldn't afford to at any time take time off.

There is such a thing as employer responsibility, I think. Okay if medical care was too expensive for Vince - fine. But working guys like dead horses for years at a time with no more than a week off - is/was irresponsible.

As was/is making guys work, knowing that they were hurt in the knowledge that they couldn't ever afford to take time off either through not being able to support their family, or not risk losing their spot or getting fired because of it.

I'm not absolving people from personal responsibility, but isn't like asking a guy to work in an office for eight years. These guys took tremendous physical risks and hardships for your company. Yes they had a choice but equally you yourself (McMahon) are at least partially responsible for why so many are banged up.

So I'd like perhaps a 'meet in the middle' scenario.

Everyone who wrestled more than X amount of dates for WWE automatically gets basic employer-based healthcare provided by the company. It wouldn't even be that expensive for them to be honest.

[xCompackx]

Nov 8, 2012 11:15:17 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

I don't know if there was a lot of, if any pissing at all going on at the WBF.

Ha, nice And yeah, I kind of agree with what Piper's saying since $100 Million is a LOT of money (you can even see Vince's reaction in the concession video), but as long as guys are getting paid as they should and they're making money is there really any harm in what the McMahons do with their money?

[hitch]

Nov 8, 2012 11:15:17 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

I don't know if there was a lot of, if any pissing at all going on at the WBF.

Guys of the WBF were given guaranteed contracts and medical benefits. Paid for by the proceeds of the wrestler's work - who got none.

[Ben Wyatt]

I'm a big Piper fan, but as far as I'm concearned, the McMahons can choose to do what they please with their profits

[BigJerichool222]

Nov 8, 2012 11:21:10 GMT -5 hitch said:

Nov 8, 2012 11:15:17 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

I don't know if there was a lot of, if any pissing at all going on at the WBF.

Guys of the WBF were given guaranteed contracts and medical benefits. Paid for by the proceeds of the wrestler's work - who got none.

I was making a drug testing joke, but that sounds insanely stupid. Did ANYBODY still give a shit about bodybuilding by that point?

[Rolent Tex]

Nov 8, 2012 11:15:17 GMT -5 BigJerichool222 said:

I don't know if there was a lot of, if any pissing at all going on at the WBF.

Personally, I'm of two minds. A lot of the old guys did kill their bodies with roids, booze and drugs and wasted all of their money. They got where they were on their own. That and Vince has used the E's own dime to send former employees with addictions to rehab.

On the other hand, Vince has skirted the issue for so long on what an employee is and isn't and what the wresters actually are that I can't even scratch the surface without probably breaking a rule. I personally don't think that Vince should be responsible for retirements, because there's plenty of guys that were smart with their money and AREN'T Ric Flair like Goldberg that wisely invested their money. Now, I DO think Vince should spot the bill for any and all injuries that happen in his ring and should offer insurance for the families of his wrestlers. With the schedule the boys work and the abuse to their bodies, it's the least he can do.

Now, the whole midcard being force to pay for their own hotel rooms at Mania whether or not they were booked on the show...that's a hot steaming pile and there's no excuse.

Also, I bet Roddy is back if there's money to be made. Vince seems to love the guys that don't hold back what's on their mind.

[Legion]

Nov 8, 2012 11:20:21 GMT -5 hitch said:

Nov 8, 2012 11:13:48 GMT -5 Legion said:

Ignoring the political stuff, my main issue, once again, is with these old guys who blew their money on booze and blow expecting someone else to look after them because they failed to invest or save wisely.

Sorry, you had your time, and you were paid for it. Much like with the Kirby family and their attempts to get rights for characters from Marvel, I say no.

People are paid for the time they work, if you dont set aside some of that money for your future, knowing that there is no safety blanket (and they all go in knowing this), or knowing that you are working under a contract that pays you there and then but that makes no promises for the future, it is your choice to take that deal and if you do, that is it. You can't go back and complain later because you dont like how something worked out.

I agree but I also see merit in the other argument. This isn't an ordinary job. Yes they have a choice, but 'choice' in these circumstance is 'work 60 nights in a row or your family goes hungry'

...okay they have a 'choice' to get into the business but once you're there, there choice doesn't really exist. Especially when it can be argued Vince deliberately avoided paying medical and healthcare benefits for his employers so they HAD to work and work and work and work and work and couldn't afford to at any time take time off.

There is such a thing as employer responsibility, I think. Okay if medical care was too expensive for Vince - fine. But working guys like dead horses for years at a time with no more than a week off - is/was irresponsible.

As was/is making guys work, knowing that they were hurt in the knowledge that they couldn't ever afford to take time off either through not being able to support their family, or not risk losing their spot or getting fired because of it.

I'm not absolving people from personal responsibility, but isn't like asking a guy to work in an office for eight years. These guys took tremendous physical risks and hardships for your company. Yes they had a choice but equally you yourself (McMahon) are at least partially responsible for why so many are banged up.

So I'd like perhaps a 'meet in the middle' scenario.

Everyone who wrestled more than X amount of dates for WWE automatically gets basic employer-based healthcare provided by the company. It wouldn't even be that expensive for them to be honest.

I disagree based on the one simple fact - there was never anything like what you are suggesting. They enter the business knowing that, and for some of these guys, it isnt like they were WWE only guys, they worked years before, and years after. Why should WWE pick up the bill for stuff they may have done elsewhere?

No one forced anyone to become a wrestler, people make the conscious choice of their own free will, and they do that knowing, or very quickly finding out, that the job is strenuous and the job is not well benefited.

If you dont like that, you walk away. If you dont walk away once you know that, it is your own fault and you should be looking after yourself with the money provided to you by your job, same as anyone else working a benefit-less job in America.

Side note: I was under the impression that WWE did pick up the bill for medical treatment and stuff for active workers, hence why they all seem to use the same doctor, due to a deal with said Doctor, or at least helped out with insurance costs, is that not the case?

[thelonewolf527]

So Piper's pretty much saying that Vince isn't allowed to spend his money how he wants because he had employees?

Yeah sorry, Vince can do whatever he wants with his money, especially considering he probably took more punishment than a great amount of "the boys" ever have.

[Rolent Tex]

I'm sure the E puts in money for surgeries and the such but I doubt they've ever said the fine details behind it. (Do the wrestlers have to pay it back? Does the E just pay a percentage of it? Does the E just pay for the consultations but not the actual work done?) I can see Vince spotting the bill though since it'd make since for his guys to see the best doctor available and get back in the game sooner. Having Cena or the such on the shelf for too long can't be good for business.

As far as what Linda spends her money on, yeah...it's her money. If she wants to piss away $90 million on trying to win a six digit job, then more power to her. She's insane, but more power to her.

[Throwback]

Nov 8, 2012 11:28:19 GMT -5 Legion said:

hence why they all seem to use the same doctor, due to a deal with said Doctor, or at least helped out with insurance costs, is that not the case?

I can't remember who's book it was in Either Stone Cold's or Jericho's. But they said they all go to the same doctor because there aren't that many that understand what they do for a living. I once had a doctor liken a bump to a low impact car crash and he recommended I get out of wrestling and that was before I even had an injury.

[flatsdomino]

Nov 8, 2012 11:30:29 GMT -5 thelonewolf527 said:

So Piper's pretty much saying that Vince isn't allowed to spend his money how he wants because he had employees?

He doesn't have employees, though.

He has "independent contractors" that he can use and abuse as he sees fit.

Which is the problem here.

Also, he's not trying to say HE deserves anything; he's defending a young generation of guys who, for the most part, don't even know how to look out for themselves. Sure, trading in the big egos of years past for guys who are just happy to be on TV might seem like a good thing, and in many ways it is; but it makes them a lot more vulnerable to getting taken for a ride by McMahon's business rhetoric and not understanding their own value.

[amaron]

Anyone who says that 'getting into the wrestling business is their dream' needs to be reminded about these types of things.

[Krimzon]

Nov 8, 2012 11:30:29 GMT -5 thelonewolf527 said:

Yeah sorry, Vince can do whatever he wants with his money, especially considering he probably took more punishment than a great amount of "the boys" ever have.

Not sure if serious.

[THE Baldy Kendrick]

Nov 8, 2012 11:28:19 GMT -5 Legion said:

Side note: I was under the impression that WWE did pick up the bill for medical treatment and stuff for active workers, hence why they all seem to use the same doctor, due to a deal with said Doctor, or at least helped out with insurance costs, is that not the case?

I assume you're talking about Dr. James Andrews. Everyone sees him because he's the best doctor in the world when it comes to shoulder/knee/elbow surgeries. Nobody sees him for a checkup.

[thelonewolf527]

Nov 8, 2012 12:31:55 GMT -5 Krimzon said:

Nov 8, 2012 11:30:29 GMT -5 thelonewolf527 said:

Yeah sorry, Vince can do whatever he wants with his money, especially considering he probably took more punishment than a great amount of "the boys" ever have.

Not sure if serious.

Very serious. Yeah he didn't have to do a physical schedule for 250+ days a year, but some of the shit he's put his body through is probably worse than the worst match the majority of wrestlers have had in their career. Not to mention he did it in his 50s and 60s.