Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 23:31:43 GMT -5
I have a question.
I keep hearing about Samoa Joe and I have to say what makes him stand out? I mean how good is he (or rather was he judging these responses)? I'm wondering because I've seen some TNA stars and honestly I'm just not getting what the big deal is.
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Post by The Tank on Jan 5, 2012 23:33:36 GMT -5
If the only Joe you've seen is the current Joe, it's completely understandable why you're underwhelmed.
You need to check out his work from 2005-200...7, would probably be the cut-off, whether it's his stuff in ROH or his early time in TNA.
Because back then, it'd be a hard argument to make that he was not the best in the world.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 5, 2012 23:37:08 GMT -5
Bit of an odd analogy, but bear with me. A lot of people (including Cornette) complained about WWE never signing ODB when she was down in OVW. And the simple fact was at the time they had Beth Phoenix, Katie Lea, Nattie Neidhart, Krissy Vaine, Shantelle Taylor and Angel Williams all under contract. And while she wasn't picked up until years later, Serena was working there too. Given all that, why bother with ODB? Similar thing with Joe. When WWE has CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, Claudio Castagnoli, had Low-Ki until he quit, tried to get Nigel McGuinness and is apparently working on getting Chris Hero. Why would they bother with Joe? I don't know if I buy this analogy. I think the upside for an in-shape, motivated Samoa Joe is probably 100 greater for a company like the WWE then ODB ever could be. You're talking about a potential main eventer vs. just another diva who, even at her hottest, would just be filling another niche in the mid-card. Even among the other indie stars you mentioned Joe stands out, at his peak anyways. |
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 6,080
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Post by Essential1 on Jan 5, 2012 23:38:20 GMT -5
Dudes ugly and looks like crap. Maybe that's why.
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,088
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Post by greeby on Jan 5, 2012 23:44:38 GMT -5
Bit of an odd analogy, but bear with me. A lot of people (including Cornette) complained about WWE never signing ODB when she was down in OVW. And the simple fact was at the time they had Beth Phoenix, Katie Lea, Nattie Neidhart, Krissy Vaine, Shantelle Taylor and Angel Williams all under contract. And while she wasn't picked up until years later, Serena was working there too. Given all that, why bother with ODB? Similar thing with Joe. When WWE has CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, Claudio Castagnoli, had Low-Ki until he quit, tried to get Nigel McGuinness and is apparently working on getting Chris Hero. Why would they bother with Joe? I don't know if I buy this analogy. I think the upside for an in-shape, motivated Samoa Joe is probably 100 greater for a company like the WWE then ODB ever could be. You're talking about a potential main eventer vs. just another diva who, even at her hottest, would just be filling another niche in the mid-card. Even among the other indie stars you mentioned Joe stands out, at his peak anyways. The point in both cases is that WWE is hyper-obsessive about image and their idea of what a wrestler should look like. While they have put that aside at times in favour of outstanding talent, they obviously feel they don't need to when they already have talented people who are a closer fit to the image they want |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 6, 2012 0:00:10 GMT -5
Umaga was leagues better in intensity, character and overall psychology. Joe is a pretty good wrestler, but I don't think WWE could market him as this intense tough guy. He really let himself go too, it's pathetic.
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Shazam
Mephisto
And then there's this ***hole...
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Post by Shazam on Jan 6, 2012 0:24:11 GMT -5
Came here to make sure this was here. It was the 3rd post. Thanks internet. :-D |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 6, 2012 0:28:14 GMT -5
I don't think it's a lack of interest on WWE's part, it's that TNA seems content to pay him a tonne of cash that it's not worth taking the chance of jumping ship. Joe is paid very, very well in TNA if I'm not mistaken
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986 
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Post by chazraps on Jan 6, 2012 0:47:16 GMT -5
I always heard that Joe was the first person approached for the Umaga character.
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Post by mystikz on Jan 6, 2012 0:52:11 GMT -5
he's fat and out of shape. used goods and overall uninteresting. I still don't see why the internet is obsessed with him. hasn't even been close to relevant in years.
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Post by BatPunk on Jan 6, 2012 0:55:36 GMT -5
It's such a shame that Joe has gone from THE GUY, whom everyone in the world wanted to have a match with, had 5-star matches with Punk and Kenta Kobashi, to not be mentioned in the top echelon of wrestlers today. Just sad.
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deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
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Post by deancubed on Jan 6, 2012 1:11:01 GMT -5
Yeah he was the original pick for Umaga, which was originally intended to be a short-term monster to help get Armando Estrada over, but Joe wasn't interested in that plan and TNA made him a decent enough offer to stay. I'm pretty sure he is still friends with Cena or at least, they had a good relationship when they were both coming up in the little leagues, so I think it's a case of Joe not wanting to go to WWE when he's comfortable in TNA and doesn't have to try so hard.
I'm pretty sure after the WWE's eventual Umaga vs Cena last man standing match, no one was regretting the way things turned out - Umaga was leaps and bounds better of a gimmick than they had originally hoped.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 2:28:11 GMT -5
People suggesting Joe get the 'Mark henry monster push' need to take a closer look at Joe. He's 6'2. Average sized and he's a big ol' fatty. He works GREAT as Vader to cruiserweights, but he just wouldn't work in that mold in WWE.
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Post by mikey_editor on Jan 6, 2012 3:03:12 GMT -5
You can only carry so many mid carders
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,477
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Post by Rican on Jan 6, 2012 3:08:49 GMT -5
This is the first I've ever heard of Joe being considered for Umaga. That would have been interesting.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 6, 2012 3:22:01 GMT -5
People suggesting Joe get the 'Mark henry monster push' need to take a closer look at Joe. He's 6'2. Average sized and he's a big ol' fatty. He works GREAT as Vader to cruiserweights, but he just wouldn't work in that mold in WWE. Considering the fact that the WWE Champion is 6'1 and the World Champion is 5'9, his size isn't much of an issue in playing the monster when he outweighs those guys by so much. |
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 6, 2012 3:55:35 GMT -5
I may be mixing up my news with my NEWZ, but I seem to remember it being reported that the WWE went after Samoa Joe in the past, and he wasn't interested. I think this was around 2006-2007 at the end of his ROH run. Yeah, I think he was afraid he'd turn into a Samoan Savage. But considering how awesome Umaga was, it might have worked. |
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Post by Ryushinku on Jan 6, 2012 4:49:05 GMT -5
I think it's a variety of reasons: -His physique. The dude has really let himself go. He doesn't seem to be motivated at all. -His attitude. I'm not saying that he's a backstage politician or anything like that, but he's obviously unmotivated right now and seems sluggish and lazy in the ring. I think this stems from his lack of push in TNA which, while understandable, is a no-no if you're trying to catch the attention of another promoter. -Marketability. There is really nothing about him that I can see being a best selling t-shirt. -Last but not least, the WWE roster is pretty stacked as it is with guys that creative have nothing for and a ton of developmental guys like Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins waiting in the wings. I disgaree with point three, but apart from that I think you've nailed it. |
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Post by machomuta on Jan 6, 2012 5:10:44 GMT -5
Dudes ugly and looks like crap. Maybe that's why. That is not the reason. If that was the reason, a guy like Brodus Clay wouldnt be in WWE right now. |
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Jan 6, 2012 5:23:11 GMT -5
Dudes ugly and looks like crap. Maybe that's why. That is not the reason. If that was the reason, a guy like Brodus Clay wouldnt be in WWE right now. Brodus is so fat it's one of his assets, like Viscera or Yokozuna. He's also like 6'7". Joe doesn't have the height or the poundage for that role. However, I think Joe gets a bit more flak than he deserves though as far as being "fat" goes. There's no doubt he's packed on fat, and it hurts his look and his speed a bit, but he is still pretty agile. If he were suddenly not booked like a whiny chickenshit he could probably put on some fine matches still. But instead he's Crimson's personal bitch. |
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