Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 12:35:11 GMT -5
That lady is an idiot.
That joke wasn't even about rape. It was about silly string.
Trying to heckle a comedian during a show is basically putting yourself out there to be completely verbally destroyed by said comedian.
I bet this lady thinks wrestling is real too. hahaha!
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Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Jul 12, 2012 12:39:49 GMT -5
I've heard that joke in his special before, and it is pretty funny. The point is that it's completely outlandish and would never happen in real life, not that it involves rape.
Also offtopic, but people need to relax on the Tosh hate. His act is a lot better than people give him credit for and he's not just someone who says shocking things to try to get a laugh a la Family Guy.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 12, 2012 12:46:11 GMT -5
I don't like Tosh as a comedian, he makes the odd decent joke but then so do I and nobody pays to see me. But regardless of that, the fact that people are trying to defend this lady and say Tosh is in the wrong is baffling at best to me.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 12, 2012 12:47:03 GMT -5
as Ive said before, Tosh is in the right for going after a heckler. that's fine. but what he said to her is not, nor will it ever be fine.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 12, 2012 13:03:19 GMT -5
If Tosh's retort to her were said in the street instead of onstage, people would see it for what it is: verbal abuse. But since it's onstage, it's a joke. Despite the fact that a retort to a heckler isn't part of doing a comedy bit per se, since it's off the cuff, and more importantly that what he said is implicitly a threat. Where do we draw the line about what's a performance and what's not? Is Daniel Tosh a character onstage? Or is he a real person? If he's the latter, then he has much accountability to accept responsibility for the things he says, especially when someone disagrees with him or not. His half-assed apology is toothless. Jason Alexander apologized for gay jokes he made on Craig Ferguson, and actually took the time to think why gay-bashing is a problem and how joking about gay men only legitimates the problem, or at the very least turns a blind eye from it. Yes, rape culture is real, along with homophobic culture, transphobic culture, misogynistic culture, war culture, torture culture, violence culture, and so on. But we joke about it, so therefore these things are okay, but we don't have to be confronted by it. We can just laugh it off. It's all a 'joke'. Which is easy for someone to say if they've never had the experience of being raped. In this sense, saying something is a joke is an alibi to say whatever we want without really thinking about the implications of who we affect when we say these things, and the kind of privilege had in saying them (Tosh, being a man, has a lot of privilege being onstage, which is effectively a bully pulpit, to shout anyone down). A real threat against this women or not, he basically said it's okay for rape to happen to her. Why? Because she's a woman who dared to interrupt his set. Yes, that is a tolerance of rape. And that's so incredibly problematic that it almost seems bizarre to have to point it out to people who can't at least see why this might be an issue for someone like the woman in the audience. Does Tosh's initial joke or his reply to this woman actually address the systemic issues of rape in culture? No. Does it speak to the complexities of culture with its intersections of gender, power, and violence? No. So where is the commentary on social reality that humour often exposes? Completely absent. Because inasmuch as humour can expose social reality, it can also reinforce it, which this circumstance proves. To differentiate between 'rape jokes can be funny' and 'rape is not funny' is the aerobatics of cognitive dissonance that astoundingly cannot accord, intentionally or not, anything but treating victims of rape as only being people who prop up a butt of a joke since at this club Tosh was performing at they're completely visible and silent from saying otherwise, and if someone speaks 'out of turn' they are punished with threats and humiliation because of it.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 12, 2012 13:08:22 GMT -5
If Tosh's retort to her were said in the street instead of onstage, people would see it for what it is: verbal abuse. But since it's onstage, it's a joke. Despite the fact that a retort to a heckler isn't part of doing a comedy bit per se, since it's off the cuff, and more importantly that what he said is implicitly a threat. Where do we draw the line about what's a performance and what's not? Is Daniel Tosh a character onstage? Or is he a real person? If he's the latter, then he has much accountability to accept responsibility for the things he says, especially when someone disagrees with him or not. His half-assed apology is toothless. Jason Alexander apologized for gay jokes he made on Craig Ferguson, and actually took the time to think why gay-bashing is a problem and how joking about gay men only legitimates the problem, or at the very least turns a blind eye from it. Yes, rape culture is real, along with homophobic culture, transphobic culture, misogynistic culture, war culture, torture culture, violence culture, and so on. But we joke about it, so therefore these things are okay, but we don't have to be confronted by it. We can just laugh it off. It's all a 'joke'. Which is easy for someone to say if they've never had the experience of being raped. In this sense, saying something is a joke is an alibi to say whatever we want without really thinking about the implications of who we affect when we say these things, and the kind of privilege had in saying them (Tosh, being a man, has a lot of privilege being onstage, which is effectively a bully pulpit, to shout anyone down). A real threat against this women or not, he basically said it's okay for rape to happen to her. Why? Because she's a woman who dared to interrupt his set. Yes, that is a tolerance of rape. And that's so incredibly problematic that it almost seems bizarre to have to point it out to people who can't at least see why this might be an issue for someone like the woman in the audience. Does Tosh's initial joke or his reply to this woman actually address the systemic issues of rape in culture? No. Does it speak to the complexities of culture with its intersections of gender, power, and violence? No. So where is the commentary on social reality that humour often exposes? Completely absent. Because inasmuch as humour can expose social reality, it can also reinforce it, which this circumstance proves. To differentiate between 'rape jokes can be funny' and 'rape is not funny' is the aerobatics of cognitive dissonance that astoundingly cannot accord, intentionally or not, anything but treating victims of rape as only being people who prop up a butt of a joke since at this club Tosh was performing at they're completely visible and silent from saying otherwise, and if someone speaks 'out of turn' they are punished with threats and humiliation because of it.
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Jul 12, 2012 13:10:21 GMT -5
if someone speaks 'out of turn' they are punished with threats and humiliation because of it. Only part I'm concerned with, because she was a heckler trying to interrupt a performer doing his job, and all he said was mean things to her. I hope you are also write about the woman and how its not fair to try and humiliate people for saying things you disagree with by attempting to sabotage their life-long, professional careers in public. Because I'm not sure why retaliation humiliation is worse then instigating it.
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Post by Angus Mcloud on Jul 12, 2012 13:14:18 GMT -5
I also love how this is his witty banter to a heckler. This was the best he could do? What a loser he is. With a heckler you dont go for "Witty banter" You try to shut them the f*** up. Which he did.
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TOO SWEET
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Post by TOO SWEET on Jul 12, 2012 13:15:27 GMT -5
I have to disagree Imago. Look at wrestling. If we see two people fighting on the street, its assault. In the ring, its entertainment. Why? Because its fake, and people are paying to see it.
When she interrupted his comedy act, she is messing with his performance. By messing with his job, she can ruin his act and keep the guy from getting booked there. By shouting during the performance, she has the potential to be taking money from his pockets, so he has more than a right to defend himself. Personally, I found his retort funny, because its typical Tosh humor. If others don't that's fine too, but I'm not getting the offense.
Tosh is a shock comic, he says things to offend people. Thats his gimmick and he plays it well. But this joke wasn't even that. The entire point of the joke is how absurd and unrealistic it is, and how nobody could ever possibly believe that happened. If thats the joke that crossed the line, then a majority of today's comedians should be out of work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 13:17:34 GMT -5
if someone speaks 'out of turn' they are punished with threats and humiliation because of it. Only part I'm concerned with, because she was a heckler trying to interrupt a performer doing his job, and all he said was mean things to her. I hope you are also write about the woman and how its not fair to try and humiliate people for saying things you disagree with by attempting to sabotage their life-long, professional careers in public. Because I'm not sure why retaliation humiliation is worse then instigating it. Agreed. She had no "turn" to speak in. It wasn't a roundtable of people throwing ideas back and forth in discussion. It was a bunch of people wanting to see a guy's stand-up act, and one woman interrupting it because she didn't agree with it. It's rude. People know what they're in for when they go to a Tosh show. The want to see him, not some jagoff who has to get her point across at their expense.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 12, 2012 13:24:05 GMT -5
People know what they're in for when they go to a Tosh show. Except this woman, according to the story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 13:25:54 GMT -5
Being an asshole is pretty much Tosh gimmick. If you ever watch his show, you know he a big wrestling fan and pretty much play a heel in his comedian route.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 12, 2012 13:26:30 GMT -5
I think some people are missing the point of why he's in hot water. he's not in trouble for responding to a heckler. he's in trouble because the words he used to respond to that heckler were crossing a line. nobody defended Michael Richards when he started dropping N-bombs at a heckler, and nobody should be defending Tosh for making tasteless rape comments (and I say this as a guy who finds Tosh entertaining, usually).
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jul 12, 2012 13:28:10 GMT -5
I think there is room in the world to criticize rape jokes, just as there's room in the world to make them. I find it kind of sad to realize that there's so much unanimous support for the idea that rape jokes are beyond contestation in a world where sexual violence is a very real thing.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 12, 2012 13:29:09 GMT -5
I think some people are missing the point of why he's in hot water. he's not in trouble for responding to a heckler. he's in trouble because the words he used to respond to that heckler were crossing a line. nobody defended Michael Richards when he started dropping N-bombs at a heckler, and nobody should be defending Tosh for making tasteless rape comments (and I say this as a guy who finds Tosh entertaining, usually). Except Kramer's comedy isn't known for using that kind of comedy, unlike Tosh. At that point, it's pretty much scolding a dog for lickign its own balls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 13:29:26 GMT -5
(NSFW)
I agree with Jimmy on this
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 12, 2012 13:30:55 GMT -5
I think some people are missing the point of why he's in hot water. he's not in trouble for responding to a heckler. he's in trouble because the words he used to respond to that heckler were crossing a line. nobody defended Michael Richards when he started dropping N-bombs at a heckler, and nobody should be defending Tosh for making tasteless rape comments (and I say this as a guy who finds Tosh entertaining, usually). Except Kramer's comedy isn't known for using that kind of comedy, unlike Tosh. At that point, it's pretty much scolding a dog for lickign its own balls. ah yes the "I call myself an asshole and therefore nobody else can call me an asshole" defence.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 12, 2012 13:34:50 GMT -5
I think some people are missing the point of why he's in hot water. he's not in trouble for responding to a heckler. he's in trouble because the words he used to respond to that heckler were crossing a line. nobody defended Michael Richards when he started dropping N-bombs at a heckler, and nobody should be defending Tosh for making tasteless rape comments (and I say this as a guy who finds Tosh entertaining, usually). Nobody defended Michael Richards because his reaction sounded REALLY hateful and angry. He sounded like he would knife that guy in the street after the show. If I know Tosh, his demeanor was calm & passively dismissive with a humorous tone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 13:37:30 GMT -5
People know what they're in for when they go to a Tosh show. Except this woman, according to the story. In general you should expects some things that will make you cringe at ANY comedy show. It comes with the territory.
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suben
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Post by suben on Jul 12, 2012 13:37:33 GMT -5
White men get really mad when you try to take away their ability to say slurs for: non-whites, women, gay people, transgender, etc. THOUGHT POLICE! MAH FREEDOM! F*** off.
There's no humor in anything he said. You can debate whether or not a rape joke can be funny. You can debate whether he was right to speak up or not. What you CAN'T defend is his retort of "Wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped by 5 guys right now". Part of dealing with a heckler is thinking on your feet and dealing with them in a way that's also funny and there's literally nothing funny about that. It'd be like me making a joke about killing dogs, someone gets offended because they're an animal lover and then I shoot back with "WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY IF I JUST CAME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILLED YOUR DOG?!" or if I made a lynching joke, pissed off a black dude and said "WELL WHAT IF I GOT A MOB TOGETHER AND THEN HUNG YOU FROM A TREE THAT'D BE HILARIOUS!"
There's no joke, there's no humor, it's just needlessly mean for the sake of being mean made even worse because Tosh is a hack and a terrible comedian who has no ability to think on his feet. You don't tell a woman "wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped" at all. Period. That's the problem with humor in the internet age though is that it's entitled ****heads like Tosh or your average Reddit or 4chan user into thinking being "shocking" = funny. Like saying the C-word is an automatic laugh simply because it's so taboo and offensive and being a self-centered, mean, misanthrope or sociopath speaking out against the evils of political correctness is what's vauled most from humor.
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