Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 12, 2012 13:42:07 GMT -5
White men get really mad when you try to take away their ability to say slurs for: non-whites, women, gay people, transgender, etc. THOUGHT POLICE! MAH FREEDOM! F*** off. There's no humor in anything he said. You can debate whether or not a rape joke can be funny. You can debate whether he was right to speak up or not. What you CAN'T defend is his retort of "Wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped by 5 guys right now". Part of dealing with a heckler is thinking on your feet and dealing with them in a way that's also funny and there's literally nothing funny about that. It'd be like me making a joke about killing dogs, someone gets offended because they're an animal lover and then I shoot back with "WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY IF I JUST CAME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILLED YOUR DOG?!" or if I made a lynching joke, pissed off a black dude and said "WELL WHAT IF I HUNG YOU FROM A TREE THEN BEAT YOU UNTIL YOU DIED THAT'D BE HILARIOUS!" There's no joke, there's no humor, it's just needlessly mean for the sake of being mean made even worse because Tosh is a hack and a terrible comedian who has no ability to think on his feet. You don't tell a woman "wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped" at all. Period. That's the problem with humor in the internet age though is that it's entitled ****heads like Tosh or your average Reddit or 4chan user into thinking being "shocking" = funny. Like saying the C-word is an automatic laugh simply because it's so taboo and offensive. You clearly don't get Tosh's act if you think he was being mean. He wasn't. He reacted to what his heckler was saying. What Tosh said was a joke if you get Tosh's act. Had I been there, I would've laughed at it because it would be just like Tosh to react like that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 13:42:11 GMT -5
White men get really mad when you try to take away their ability to say slurs for: non-whites, women, gay people, transgender, etc. THOUGHT POLICE! MAH FREEDOM! F*** off. There's no humor in anything he said. You can debate whether or not a rape joke can be funny. You can debate whether he was right to speak up or not. What you CAN'T defend is his retort of "Wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped by 5 guys right now". Part of dealing with a heckler is thinking on your feet and dealing with them in a way that's also funny and there's literally nothing funny about that. It'd be like me making a joke about killing dogs, someone gets offended because they're an animal lover and then I shoot back with "WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY IF I JUST CAME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILLED YOUR DOG?!" or if I made a lynching joke, pissed off a black dude and said "WELL WHAT IF I HUNG YOU FROM A TREE THEN BEAT YOU UNTIL YOU DIED THAT'D BE HILARIOUS!" I thought it was a pretty funny joke in retort to a very stupid comment from the heckler. Though you're doing the dog bit wrong. What you should say in response to some idiotic heckler offended by a dog joke is, "Wouldn't it be hilarious if a dog attacked you right now?" That would be much funnier than you going to their house because it A) has a sense of immediacy and B) is much more nonsensical. |
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 12, 2012 13:42:18 GMT -5
Except Kramer's comedy isn't known for using that kind of comedy, unlike Tosh. At that point, it's pretty much scolding a dog for lickign its own balls. ah yes the "I call myself an asshole and therefore nobody else can call me an asshole" defence. Honestly, can't someone just be an asshole without it devolving into a discussion on how big the cheeks are or how bad the smell is (metaphorically)? |
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Muskrat
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Post by Muskrat on Jul 12, 2012 13:43:58 GMT -5
2 things came to mind after reading that article:
1. "My babysitter canceled and I got tickets to a Christian Rock concert"/"Well sir, I've never heard a preacher use the M-F-word so many times."
2. There is definitely a dark, twisted ironic humour to the idea of 5 men in ski masks showing up and gang raping her as she attempted to leave, offended by a rape joke.
#2 is probably why I'm going to hell, but I know there's plenty of spots saved on the bus with me.
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Arrow
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Post by Arrow on Jul 12, 2012 13:44:32 GMT -5
White men get really mad when you try to take away their ability to say slurs for: non-whites, women, gay people, transgender, etc. THOUGHT POLICE! MAH FREEDOM! F*** off. I'm not white and it still annoys me when people complain about stuff like this. Humor is subjective, people have a right to tell the jokes they want, and as long as there are people willing to listen to whatever jokes he's telling (as is the case with Daniel Tosh here) then there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing so. You want to get offended by rape jokes? Go right ahead. Don't listen. Leave. And more importantly, if you're going to attend a show where the comedian's thing is being offensive, then don't try and ruin it for everyone else. I thought there was a lot of humor in what Tosh said. Dark and mean-spirited? Sure. That's Tosh's shtick. But the woman did bring a lot of it on herself for interrupting him in the middle of his act, which was focused on rape at the time. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 12, 2012 13:47:52 GMT -5
White men get really mad when you try to take away their ability to say slurs for: non-whites, women, gay people, transgender, etc. THOUGHT POLICE! MAH FREEDOM! F*** off. There's no humor in anything he said. You can debate whether or not a rape joke can be funny. You can debate whether he was right to speak up or not. What you CAN'T defend is his retort of "Wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped by 5 guys right now". Part of dealing with a heckler is thinking on your feet and dealing with them in a way that's also funny and there's literally nothing funny about that. It'd be like me making a joke about killing dogs, someone gets offended because they're an animal lover and then I shoot back with "WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY IF I JUST CAME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILLED YOUR DOG?!" or if I made a lynching joke, pissed off a black dude and said "WELL WHAT IF I HUNG YOU FROM A TREE THEN BEAT YOU UNTIL YOU DIED THAT'D BE HILARIOUS!" There's no joke, there's no humor, it's just needlessly mean for the sake of being mean made even worse because Tosh is a hack and a terrible comedian who has no ability to think on his feet. You don't tell a woman "wouldn't it be hilarious if you got gang raped" at all. Period. That's the problem with humor in the internet age though is that it's entitled ****heads like Tosh or your average Reddit or 4chan user into thinking being "shocking" = funny. Like saying the C-word is an automatic laugh simply because it's so taboo and offensive. Normally I agree with the concept of privileged people getting defensive in these situations for no reason. That said, you didn't see his act, you don't know what was said, and you're making baseless assumptions. That's irresponsible on your part, and unacceptable in the discussion. Beyond that, again, you're neglecting the difference between an honest-to-goodness conversation and an on-stage act. Once again, nobody's saying people don't have a right to be offended at certain subject matter, but it is not an audience member's place to interrupt a performance to voice displeasure. Take that anger to the venue's manager, do not create a scene during a performance by a character. Had Daniel Tosh gone on a roundtable discussion panel on CNN and said something like this, by all means it'd be grounds to toss him out at Comedy Central. As it is, it was something that happened during his act, wherein he plays a character/caricatured version of himself, at a comedy venue. ...Then again, I'd be curious why CNN would bring somebody like Tosh on and not expect him to say something outrageous, but I'm just creating a hypothetical here. I don't think anybody's saying there's no room for critique; many of us have said that there are many comics out there who have no business handling certain subject matter, given their lack of refinement and ability as performers. Many have also said that context matters: even in his defense of Tosh, Jim Norton (about the dirtiest comedian going today) says that it'd be much tougher to defend him if he had randomly picked this woman out of the crowd and decided to say this stuff about her. In a situation like that, you're invading an audience member's right to be an anonymous viewer...not that comics don't involve the crowd sometimes, but it'd be doing so in a very nasty manner. As it was, she effectively begged him to make her part of the act. That's wrong to do. Again, context and execution matter in these cases. How often do we hear comics insulting various religions, famous people (including many who are universally recognized as great people), murder, or other sensitive subjects? Do we really bat an eye at those? Some people do, I'm certain. But it's wrong to say that any of these subjects are inherently unfunny if a comedian manages to make an audience laugh with them. In this case, rape as an act isn't funny; rape in the context of an absurd joke can be, if utilized by a well-trained comedian. |
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 12, 2012 14:50:38 GMT -5
I also love how this is his witty banter to a heckler. This was the best he could do? What a loser he is. Thanks for contributing to the thread in such a constructive manner. If you are defending that idiot on any level, then forgive me if I don't care for your ideas of what a constructive contribution is or isn't. |
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Massive G
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Post by Massive G on Jul 12, 2012 14:54:39 GMT -5
so, people actually think that this guys was honestly calling for the forcible ravaging of a woman's vagina by numerous men? That he actually thought that that should actually happen?
because if you think he was being totally serious, and really, deeply wanted to see a woman gang raped, then yeah, he's pretty awful. Something tells me, however, that's not the case.
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Post by Porky's Butthole on Jul 12, 2012 15:04:44 GMT -5
The lady in question not only knew who Dane Cook was but said despite the rawness of his stuff, she liked it/him. That being said, a few thoughts cone to mind:
1: Dane isn't remotely a 'clean' comic. Therefore, she knew what type of humor she'd see/hear.
2: Cook opened for Tosh. lulz
3: She heckled a comic. Breaking rule numero uno.
4: She obviously has no self-respect, having *paid* to see Dane Cook, the karate of comedy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 15:12:33 GMT -5
Again, context and execution matter in these cases. How often do we hear comics insulting various religions, famous people (including many who are universally recognized as great people), murder, or other sensitive subjects? This is a really good point. Of course, rape is a terrible thing, but...people talk/joke/actually theorize killing other people all the time and people don't bat an eyelash. And I know people can get offended by what they want, and place things as worse in their mind than others, but the fact that there isn't a similar outcry in the times we now live in about "murder humor" or joking about peoples lives literally ending and such is kinda mind blowing to me. |
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Post by Cyno on Jul 12, 2012 15:37:52 GMT -5
Regarding the "rape humor is never funny" thing, out of all the horrible, dehumanizing, and outright evil things people make jokes about, why is rape the one thing out of them that's considered untouchable? Rape is obviously an awful, awful thing. But we joke about so many awful, awful things, especially in standup comedy. And anyone familiar with Daniel Tosh should know his act has elements of black humor (as in dark or macabre, not African American) in them.
Obviously comedic taste is completely subjective and I can't say I'd blame anyone for not finding Tosh funny. But you should know what you're getting yourself into when you see him perform.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 15:43:09 GMT -5
I also love how this is his witty banter to a heckler. This was the best he could do? What a loser he is. With a heckler you dont go for "Witty banter" You try to shut them the f*** up. Which he did. Exactly. Expecting some kind of witty back and forth is the exact attitude that causes this sort of nonsense. It's not cute, it's not clever, so don't do it. |
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Muskrat
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Post by Muskrat on Jul 12, 2012 15:51:24 GMT -5
After reading it again, it really seems to me like she was trying to get a Krameresque response out of him. No sober person heckles a comic and is surprised when he beaks off back at them.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 12, 2012 16:03:27 GMT -5
Thanks for contributing to the thread in such a constructive manner. If you are defending that idiot on any level, then forgive me if I don't care for your ideas of what a constructive contribution is or isn't. In that case, stop posting in the thread. There are plenty of other people in the thread who feel Tosh was in the wrong, but they're engaging in a conversation, which is the purpose of posting in a thread. If you can't/won't do that, then remove yourself from the thread. |
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Mr T L Wolf
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Jul 12, 2012 16:30:38 GMT -5
She shouldn't have heckled him, but his response was pretty far over the line, as far as we know. All we've seen is her side of it.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Jul 12, 2012 16:44:51 GMT -5
When you heckle a comedian at a show you lose any amount of protection. Tosh completely destroyed her and rightfully so. This isn't about an offensive word it's about some dumb audience member being put it her place.
Nobody defending Tosh is defending the act of rape nor was Tosh actually encouraging an act of rape to occur.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Jul 12, 2012 17:19:18 GMT -5
I think a heckler is kinda like someone jumping the aisle during a wresting show, ifthe guy gets smacked in the face thats what he gets, if you are a heckler and you're interupting the show you'll be verbally ripped to shreds. It was mean and not really funny, but the idea isn't to tell a great joke as much as it is to make soeone feel really low.
Harlan Williams still had the best one, some guy with a tatoo interupted him and Harlan insulted him back and the guy said "You should see my submarine" and Harlanreplied back with "I'd love to, do you have a tatoo of a magnifying glass anywhere?" BOOM
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theryno665
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 12, 2012 17:50:44 GMT -5
The real tragedy of this doesn't even involve Daniel Tosh or the heckler. It's going to be the aftermath of tons of unfunny amateurs thinking that their unfunny rape jokes are funny because Daniel Tosh had one. I haven't done a set in a while but now I'm actively avoiding doing open mics this next week or two because I've already heard of instances where random people are going up to the mic and basically saying "So, rape. Am I right?" On a normal night, 1 or 2 of those people are bad enough.
I'm of the school of thinking that if everything isn't funny, than nothing is. Everything is fair game. However, I steer clear of jokes about rape because it's REALLY hard to pull them off. You're going to offend somebody no matter what, which isn't a problem for most comics I know, but it's a drastically uphill battle to make something like that funny. And if you aren't creative enough to make it funny, then don't do it.
Even so, I was kinda offended by Tosh's "rape joke", not because it was about rape but it was barely a joke. But then again, it was a response to a heckler and when you're put on the spot like that, they can't all be winners.
In the end, pretty much anyone involved with or interested in stand-up comedy is already sick of talking about this so I'm done. I'll just leave this here.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 12, 2012 18:05:08 GMT -5
Just think if it was Bill Cosby making rape jokes.  "These kids today with the rap music and the rapping that goes with the raping and the girls with their skimpy outfits and the fellas with their pants hanging down to their ankles and the booties and the angry bananas and the go to the clubs with the zippity-bippitity-boppety-boopety BLASAAAAAAAAMMMM!!!! And then the girl gets the skippety-scappity-skadoodilies and the genital warts and the guy never calls her back and then he goes to the prison where he gets the cornholin, and the butt blastin, and the pee-pee cacachoooooooooo!!!!!!" |
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DXKramer
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Post by DXKramer on Jul 12, 2012 18:51:47 GMT -5
Just think if it was Bill Cosby making rape jokes. "These kids today with the rap music and the rapping that goes with the raping and the girls with their skimpy outfits and the fellas with their pants hanging down to their ankles and the booties and the angry bananas and the go to the clubs with the zippity-bippitity-boppety-boopety BLASAAAAAAAAMMMM!!!! And then the girl gets the skippety-scappity-skadoodilies and the genital warts and the guy never calls her back and then he goes to the prison where he gets the cornholin, and the butt blastin, and the pee-pee cacachoooooooooo!!!!!!" I just read that in Bill Cosby's voice and it made what I read a helluva lot funnier. |
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