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Post by Kitty Shamrocks on Jul 12, 2012 19:00:10 GMT -5
I hate Tosh.
But if we're going to hound comedians for making rape jokes, then at least be consistent. Defile the names of Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce, and George Carlin. Make sure to not go to any Patton Oswalt or Louis CK shows. Boycott Office Space because of the use of the term "pound me in the ass prison." Let the world know you don't like Workaholics and that you will never watch it.
And please make sure to shout this at the top of your lungs and post it on your tumblr later. We must know.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 12, 2012 19:15:39 GMT -5
Let the world know you don't like Workaholics and that you will never watch it. Hell, I already do that.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 12, 2012 19:42:12 GMT -5
You know who else thinks rape is funny? MY MOM! {Spoiler}Come on, you know you smiled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 20:01:33 GMT -5
I just never get the cricitism.
"Hey! Comedian I don't like, I'm never gonna see your shows but stop doing rape jokes."
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Mr Captain Falcon
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Post by Mr Captain Falcon on Jul 12, 2012 20:24:16 GMT -5
Basically it's this.... if you're going to a comedy club RESEARCH THE COMEDIAN AND THEIR MATERIAL. This way you won't get offended.
If you go to a comedy club and don't find a joke funny DON'T LAUGH. Just sit there and wait for the next topic.
I laugh at all kinds of jokes. Racist, handicapped, blonde, men, women, gay, polish, religious, and especially dead baby. Why? THEY'RE f***ING JOKES! THEY'RE MEANT TO BE FUNNY, NOT TO OFFEND.
End.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 12, 2012 20:31:27 GMT -5
No single subject matter in comedy is off-limits. It's more about how a comic handles various subject matters, whether the comic is talented at his/her craft or not, and various other factors. Many comics aren't talented enough to handle certain heavy or controversial subject matters without simply being grotesque, but a talented comic, which Tosh is, can do so in a way that makes clear the absurdity of what he/she is joking about. To say something, anything, is "never funny" is simply inaccurate, as it implies that there is no audience that would laugh at whatever the subject matter is. That's a rather large, unrealistic assumption to make. Never forget that stand-up comedy is an act. Just because Al Pacino played Tony Montana doesn't mean he's a coke dealer. Just because Ralph Fiennes was in Schindler's List as a commandant doesn't mean he's a Nazi. Just because a comic makes a joke about something controversial doesn't mean he/she thinks that subject matter is something to take lightly in real life. This isn't to say people aren't allowed to be offended by certain subject matter; everybody's line of demarkation for what one finds offensive is unique, after all. Real talk.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 12, 2012 21:08:23 GMT -5
It's tough. One thing about discussing rape jokes and being against them in society it seems has to do with politics. The people who brought it up on my Facebook are both pretty hardcore feminists. And I feel on this forum, feminism is really misunderstood but I digress.
With a ban on politics, it's really difficult to get to the meat of the matter, so I'll try to bring this up in a way that's vague and not very political. But here we go. Firstly, I think a problem has to do with rape not being taken seriously. People can talk about the horror of it, but when somebody gets murdered, it's not often people say of the innocent person "they had it coming" or "if they didn't act a certain way, this wouldn't have happened" or whatever. With rape however, these are reasons given, because the girl dressed like a "slut", because she was easy, because she was leading the guy on, she was drunk, she was partying, all that good stuff. Slut shaming is another issue, as if I were to bring up porn stars and prostitutes being raped, there maybe some ignorant people that would be like, well, that's the business they work in, or another she had it coming.
Rape is something that is incredibly under reported, and there has been throughout history a lot of shame put on the rape victim. Now, to the bit where I walk the line of getting a warning, but it seems that, at least in one particularly well known country, there seems to be laws coming out attempting to control women, and put more control over them. That's the only thing I'll say about that, and people can let their imaginations run wild. Basically, women are these things to control and a lot of rape simply involves control. Women at times are harassed for pretty much existing. As someone who works in the construction industry, I know this for a fact, I've seen it and heard about it. And that's just the construction industry, I'm sure many other women have had to deal with it in other walks of life.
So yeah, it's hard to say that certain jokes are off limits, but I think people need to understand where the other side is coming from and why rape jokes are incredibly beyond offensive instead of being like, oh come on, that's just how that comedian is or she should have known better or whatever the f***.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 21:29:58 GMT -5
So yeah, it's hard to say that certain jokes are off limits, but I think people need to understand where the other side is coming from and why rape jokes are incredibly beyond offensive instead of being like, oh come on, that's just how that comedian is or she should have known better or whatever the f***. It's offensive and anyone who hears it has every right to be offended by it, but that's a gamble that a comedian takes by incorporating stuff like that in their act. Just like in music Tyler the Creator for example raps about extremely violent and sexual material, some comedians joke about really extreme subject matter. Bottom line is for everyone who doesn't like it, there's someone who does like offensive humor there's nothing wrong with being on any side of that coin. It's the attempt people make to take something away that other people enjoy that bothers me. The ongoing trend of people trying to tell other people what they should and shouldn't like. It's one thing when it's open mic night and you don't know what to expect going in(not that I agree with this woman's response even if it was), but Daniel Tosh is a pretty big name in the comedy world right now so it wouldn't have been a tough job for this woman to do some research and know what she's getting into. I don't think that's an invalid argument. People do such research before going to a movie, seeing a band, if someone invites me to a Cryptopsy concert I'm not gonna feel safe because I'm simply going to a "music show". Bottom line is any entertainment/artistic medium holds potential to be offensive and if that's something I worry about, I'm gonna make sure I'm going to see a show that doesn't offend me.
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Post by Chilly McFreeze on Jul 12, 2012 21:31:51 GMT -5
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Post by Mr. Self-Destruct on Jul 12, 2012 21:54:10 GMT -5
American's sure love their PC....almost as much as they love their freedoms that go against being PC.
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Post by kayfabulous on Jul 12, 2012 22:07:02 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious.
I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 12, 2012 22:08:37 GMT -5
"Funny people should be left to try to be funny." "But what if they are not funny?" " Then he made a mistake." twitter.com/danieltosh/status/222796532653629441Apparently this is what apologizing for a mistake looks like. As opposed to: www.inquisitr.com/247977/jason-alexanders-apology-for-gay-joke-is-like-basically-a-primer-on-both-apologies-and-being-nice-to-gay-people/Actually recognizing why gay-bashing in jokes, whether intentional or not, is a problem. Kind of like rape, no? And then, "I'm diabetic and I make fun of that. I'm a victim. I might lose a toe. I'm trying to make fun of anything I think I can make fun of." Which is unfortunate, since I thought O'Neal was a decent comedian. But I also recognize that he was a human being who had a life who died before his time because of a chronic illness. There's no joke, no irony in pointing out a remark made in the linked Youtube video (excluding from the conversation the questionable and misspelled "brawd" label, because what do women know, right?) with the reality of his life given the prophetic and fateful resonances of the remark. When people die it's not funny. Diabetes isn't funny. Treating someone like a human being who had a life, instead of treating them like a joke or a punchline? What a novel concept.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 12, 2012 22:09:50 GMT -5
So yeah, it's hard to say that certain jokes are off limits, but I think people need to understand where the other side is coming from and why rape jokes are incredibly beyond offensive instead of being like, oh come on, that's just how that comedian is or she should have known better or whatever the f***. It's offensive and anyone who hears it has every right to be offended by it, but that's a gamble that a comedian takes by incorporating stuff like that in their act. Just like in music Tyler the Creator for example raps about extremely violent and sexual material, some comedians joke about really extreme subject matter. Bottom line is for everyone who doesn't like it, there's someone who does like offensive humor there's nothing wrong with being on any side of that coin. It's the attempt people make to take something away that other people enjoy that bothers me. The ongoing trend of people trying to tell other people what they should and shouldn't like. It's one thing when it's open mic night and you don't know what to expect going in(not that I agree with this woman's response even if it was), but Daniel Tosh is a pretty big name in the comedy world right now so it wouldn't have been a tough job for this woman to do some research and know what she's getting into. I don't think that's an invalid argument. People do such research before going to a movie, seeing a band, if someone invites me to a Cryptopsy concert I'm not gonna feel safe because I'm simply going to a "music show". Bottom line is any entertainment/artistic medium holds potential to be offensive and if that's something I worry about, I'm gonna make sure I'm going to see a show that doesn't offend me. I only heard about Daniel Tosh through that Tosh.0 show, other then that, I knew nothing of his work. And if I'm going to a comedy club, I just would want to go there. I've gone to concerts and not did research on the person, usually I'm going with someone else. I also don't watch movies so when I'm going to one with a chick, I don't know anything about any of them and don't really care to research because I don't really care that much. But I don't get offended easily. When going to a boxing card, or UFC event, or wrestling show, a lot of people are casual viewers and don't nor shouldn't have to do research on it. They don't care, for the most part they want to be entertained. From what I'm reading, he said rape jokes are always funny and someone disagreed and heckled them, some odd heckling though. Normally when I think of heckling I think people yelling they suck, or even Brenden Burns' heckling of the Great Khali. Essentially it seemed like the chick was wanting to defend that position that they aren't funny, and I would barely call it heckling at all. But yeah, people don't normally do research on entertainment events anyway. And again, why was it wrong in the first place, couldn't he have come up with a better quip anyway. He seems like a shitty comedian. Anyone can say what he said, that doesn't take much talent.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 12, 2012 22:25:00 GMT -5
Essentially it seemed like the chick was wanting to defend that position that they aren't funny, and I would barely call it heckling at all. Then blog about it afterwards. It's not her place to interrupt him while he's working. Anytime you bring an act to a screeching halt like that, it's heckling and you deserve whatever bullet the comedian has in the chamber. She should've kept her mouth shut during his performance. Simple as that.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Jul 12, 2012 22:26:31 GMT -5
Just think if it was Bill Cosby making rape jokes. "These kids today with the rap music and the rapping that goes with the raping and the girls with their skimpy outfits and the fellas with their pants hanging down to their ankles and the booties and the angry bananas and the go to the clubs with the zippity-bippitity-boppety-boopety BLASAAAAAAAAMMMM!!!! And then the girl gets the skippety-scappity-skadoodilies and the genital warts and the guy never calls her back and then he goes to the prison where he gets the cornholin, and the butt blastin, and the pee-pee cacachoooooooooo!!!!!!" Needs more talk about the Jello.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 12, 2012 22:33:19 GMT -5
That's pretty much the definition of heckling, though. Comedy shows aren't debate halls and comedians aren't going to have the patience to put up with a moral outrage crusader. We also don't know how badly she actually heckled him outside of her own word (unlike Michael Richards' case where there was video tape and a smoking gun). If you find a comedian offensive (and if I stopped liking standup comedians for being offensive, I'd hate standup comedy. They're ALL offensive in some way and the ones that aren't honestly aren't that funny, like Carrot Top), then you can leave, complain to the manager, and/or blog about it. But interrupting or heckling a comedian puts you at their mercy and they can and will verbally rip into you.
Hell, if his bit followed the same formula as his last comedy special, that rape joke isn't even the most offensive thing he joked about (and also did some anti-rapist jokes against Kobe and Roethlisberger, as well as making fun of the people that glorify them). He also joked about wanting to f*** Brad Pitt and David Beckham's proverbial love child.
Everything he says is so ridiculously absurd and out there. Is it to everyone's taste? No. But I'm not afraid to say I like his humor. If that makes me a horrible person that perpetuates rape culture in some peoples' eyes, then they don't know me as a person and how I feel about rape (I think it's one of the most disgusting and vile acts a person can commit against another BTW). And they can go f*** themselves for making such a snap judgment about me.
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Post by Mr. Self-Destruct on Jul 12, 2012 22:35:22 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious. I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be. I seriously doubt that just because a guy hears rape jokes, it's going to cause him to rape someone. Rapist already have the desire, idea, and willingness in their mind. They aren't going to rape somebody because they think "Hey, rape is funny and acceptable now because people tell rape jokes....I'm totally going to start raping people now!"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 22:47:28 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious. I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be. I seriously doubt that just because a guy hears rape jokes, it's going to cause him to rape someone. Rapist already have the desire, idea, and willingness in their mind. They aren't going to rape somebody because they think "Hey, rape is funny and acceptable now because people tell rape jokes....I'm totally going to start raping people now!" While they may indeed have the notion in mind, group think and mob mentality can exacerbate people into action. Creating a culture that finds something like rape funny may (and I'll state here that I'm not sure that it always does or that there is a direct correlation, etc.) be a reflection of an unconscious acceptance or justification or willful ignorance of things like rape. And, to be fair, there are different ways to approach something like rape humor. One way is to find humor in the cruelty and insanity that's behind it, much the way the George Carlin clip does. People often make jokes as a defense mechanism, as humor is a great way to cope with the more unfortunate aspects of life. African American comedians making jokes about racism, Jewish comedians making jokes about the Holocaust and antisemitism, comedians who have struggled with alcohol and drugs making jokes about those struggles, the humor functions as a way to express your outrage. Shock humor, just for the sake of saying something to rile up your audience, is lazy and forced. Shock humor can be used as a tool but more often it's not. If you want to portray violent and sexual acts themselves, the human suffering involved, the perpetrators of those acts, as funny in of themselves without the intention of criticizing them, without trying to defend yourself from them as a rational, moral human being, then I think something is wrong. Comedians have the right to say these things but they have to deal with the consequences that may arise.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 12, 2012 22:52:36 GMT -5
Essentially it seemed like the chick was wanting to defend that position that they aren't funny, and I would barely call it heckling at all. Then blog about it afterwards. It's not her place to interrupt him while he's working. Anytime you bring an act to a screeching halt like that, it's heckling and you deserve whatever bullet the comedian has in the chamber. She should've kept her mouth shut during his performance. Simple as that. "Keep your mouth shut bitch" I guess would be the response to her then, which I guess is pretty similar to what he said in the end anyway. She said she didn't feel right if she didn't, like, I guess I put heckling in that category with people who are like, you f***in' suck, oh, you're so hilarious, instead of making a point. Again, it's an issue she felt strongly on. I guess it's SOME type of heckling but not really the type of heckling I would consider. Plus, what's the context of the retort? Like, I don't get the joke. It's like if she heckled him and he said, "I'm gonna kill you in your sleep bitch" or "I'm gonna give you aids" or "f*** you, I hate you and I don't quite like your tone lady". Again, this issue is close to a lot of people's hearts, and some people may have a hard time just sitting down and shutting up about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 22:53:18 GMT -5
I only heard about Daniel Tosh through that Tosh.0 show, other then that, I knew nothing of his work. And if I'm going to a comedy club, I just would want to go there. I've gone to concerts and not did research on the person, usually I'm going with someone else. I also don't watch movies so when I'm going to one with a chick, I don't know anything about any of them and don't really care to research because I don't really care that much. But I don't get offended easily. When going to a boxing card, or UFC event, or wrestling show, a lot of people are casual viewers and don't nor shouldn't have to do research on it. They don't care, for the most part they want to be entertained. Yeah but entertainment is subjective. You're never going to please everyone and obviously this woman wasn't pleased. If someone's offering me candy, but I've never heard of Mr. Big, so I eat the candy anyways who's wrong? The candy company for putting me in a situation where I eat candy in spite of my condition or myself for allowing it simply because I wanted candy? You don't research before you go into a show and that's fine. But let's take away the rape joke, if you were going to a Jeff Dunham show, you never heard of the guy, but you think ventriloquist humor is hack, is the onus on you for not knowing what you're getting into or the comedian because he's not pandering to the comedy you enjoy? Dark humor is a style of comedy just as death metal or gangster rap is to music, so if you have it in your mind that you don't like that kind of music, let the people who dig it, dig it, and stay away from it if you want no part of it. It's that simple to me. You simply cannot put Daniel Tosh at fault for this woman not knowing his humor. It is[/u] heckling. If we don't call it heckling, it is a disruption at the very least. She interrupted a show that people paid to see, she wouldn't have been the butt of it if she didn't speak up. Leave if you don't like it, ESPECIALLY at a comedy show. It sounds harsh but that's the reality of it. The Book of Mormon is a show that someone easily could find offensive but because it's broadway people treat it with respect and don't stand up and yell when they're offended. The strength of a comedian should be his JOKES, not his/her ability to shunt off hecklers. As a fan of comedy, there's nothing more annoying than someone interrupting someone's set. Even if I don't enjoy the comedian I enjoy someone shitting all over it in front of them even worse. No performer should have to prepare themselves for someone making a show about them and no comedian should be judged by the way they handle something like that, it's never an easy thing.
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