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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Jul 16, 2012 21:43:55 GMT -5
Look, just cause people want to see something different doesn't mean people hate the Nolan films or think they suck. The thing is that it doesn't mean they have to continue it, or that going a different direction is bad. Even Nolan isn't looking to continue and move on, cause he's already said what he was planning in those 3 movies. Batman has had 8 theatrical movies, 2 serials, 5 solo animated series, and a TV show, all different from each other. People just want to see the next evolution of the Bat universe, and how someone else will imagine it. I understand what you mean and more interpretations are good (sure, I'd like more Batman movies), but do look at it from the perspective of someone who comes on here and has read regularly in the comic movie threads about how comic book movies are too gritty now--a trend I have found only "exists" on this message board. I wrote a long post about this in, I think, an Avengers-related thread few weeks ago and only one person responded to me, I think. Even if people want to move on, at least wait until this franchise is over with and give Nolan and all the benefit of the doubt. I wish people would really remember the last impression of Batman pre-Begins. It was a s***ty movie involving Bat credit cards, awful puns, and unneccessary goofiness. Nolan is two for two with Batman so far and has not disgraced the franchise in a way that really legitimizes any serious backlash. I think the next movie being in the vein of the "Arkham" video games would be a nice balance of verisimilitude and magic realism. Mr. Freeze, Zsasz, Killer Croc, the Mad Hatter, Scarface, and the Riddler could all work on the big screen with an "Arkham" aesthetic. So far, Batman on film for me has been iffy. I love "Batman Returns" for just how broken psychologically the characters are, but hate the first Burton film because it's painfully dated as an 80s film. "Batman and Robin" is a hilarious camp romp, but "Forever" is just a plodding mess in terms of plot. "Begins" really establishes the motivation of why Bruce Wayne dons the cowl, but "TDK" runs too long and puts Batman into Frank Miller territory far too soon. Even Gotham City as an environment is lacking. It's either too Victorian gothic (or 'Burton-y'), too flourescent and cartoony (or 'Schumacher-y), or too bland and monochrome (or 'Nolan-y). Somewhere between all three of these styles is a great cinematic Gotham, but it hasn't been realized yet.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 16, 2012 21:49:49 GMT -5
I really wish people would stop acting like everything pre-Begins was complete s***. Each movie had their own merits to them and their own hindrances. Same went for the first movie, same with the latest and all the ones in between. People will do the same the minute the new series hits and becomes a big success. I do think it's the time to wonder what comes next. Even Nolan himself says he's done with this, as he's finished telling his story. The franchise is pretty much over after this week's movie hits. Now it's time for someone else to make something, and eventually, down the line, fans will call all 3 Nolan films s*** after the superior "BATMAN REBORN" movie comes out with the villain being Penguin or Black Mask or King Tut or whoever is called up in the next director/writer's hands. Doesn't mean you and everyone else can't enjoy what happens for the next few weeks, months even, when the film hits and the numbers start climbing up. In absolutely no way was everything pre-Nolan complete s***. I would never, ever say that. Batman '89 is still my favorite Batman movie for a variety of reasons, I loved Returns for how bleak it is, never watched more than a handful of episodes but definitely see the merits of Animated and Beyond, liked the '60s series for Frank Gorshin and a few of the characters it introduced to me to, etc. Even Batman and Robin had a few nifty details. It's just that Batman and Robin was so dire that the franchise needed a shot in the arm and Nolan's Batman was it, much like Burton's Batman was a big contrast to what the mass public remembered of Batman (i.e., Adam West being a total ham). It's not wrong to wonder what comes next--I do, too--but the vibe here isn't that, "Hmm, I'm curious about what will follow" but more like "Thank God this f***ing horrible series is going to be over." If Dark Knight Rises is as good as it looks, it will be one of the most consistently good--maybe best--trilogies of superhero films of all time. Like I said earlier today, I'm not going to come on here and tell everyone with a contrasting opinion to piss off if they don't like something I do, but the backlash has felt irrational and absolutely undue. I am not trying to stifle discussion--just add a contrasting opinion to how I've repeatedly read on here about terrible SRS Batman is. Fine. I understand. I myself have given the DK Trilogy some grief over the years, but I don't want you to think that I'm calling you dumb for liking it or insulting your taste or anything. Not at all. I'm just saying that people who are excited for the series ending aren't all there cause they think the movies sucked, but rather interested in the future and the new changes that could happen. I will say, though, the Batman & Robin release probably did teach WB one thing that helped big when they relaunched with Begins: Don't use your movie as a shill for toys and comics. That seemed to have helped these movie, as it made it Nolan's baby and not WB's/DC's.
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Post by salsashark on Jul 16, 2012 22:03:01 GMT -5
Fair enough. Thanks for the good discussion. 'Twas a lot of fun, and now I want to watch some Batman movies. I still wish they would have showed Johnny Gobs getting ripped and taking a walk off the roof (or the Bat getting him).
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jul 16, 2012 22:28:00 GMT -5
People just want to see the next evolution of the Bat universe, and how someone else will imagine it. That's a big judgment call for a lot of people there. Especially with what we were treated to in the past, I think it people had a choice, they'd want to continue with this. And it's far from worn out, that's just opinion. Hell, I hated the Raimi Spiderman movies, but a lot of people didn't. Yeah, I wanted something different, but I'm not going to flat out say that I know what everyone else wants, because people were happy with what they had already. So you'll get your way (unfortunately) once the direction and tone they're going with right now is no longer profitable. Not everything needs to be a f***ing flashy cartoon. I like that they treated Batman with respect. Hell, Nolan was a lot more respectable to the character traits than any other person who has taken the realm...and you want something different? No matter what direction the series goes, it'll never please anyone. But I have to say, what Nolan has accomplished with Batman is pretty f***ing impressive. He treated it as something that is targeted towards something more than kids (you can argue the others weren't, but they definitely were given a fair amount of space to cater to them). I don't give a damn if it doesn't look or feel like a comic book. I don't care that it takes itself seriously. Because that's what I like. I am first and foremost a movie fan and in my opinion, Nolan has done a better job with Batman than either Burton or Schumacher.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 16, 2012 22:40:11 GMT -5
^Well, i clarified it in the last post to make it some, not all.
Well, people may want it to continue, but considering it's the end, and as mentioned that Nolan himself isn't interested to continue, as he's told his story now, no point in continuing. Leaving on a high note, and all that. I wouldn't want another director to try to mimic the style or for Nolan to be forced to continue the story. Most comic book stories go downward when those situations happen.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jul 16, 2012 23:00:23 GMT -5
I will say, though, the Batman & Robin release probably did teach WB one thing that helped big when they relaunched with Begins: Don't use your movie as a shill for toys and comics. That seemed to have helped these movie, as it made it Nolan's baby and not WB's/DC's. are you kidding? do you know how much The Dark Knight Rises would be if they included the Neon Talking Super Street Bat-Luge and/or Alpine Ice Climber Batman
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Jul 17, 2012 0:02:11 GMT -5
^Well, i clarified it in the last post to make it some, not all. Well, people may want it to continue, but considering it's the end, and as mentioned that Nolan himself isn't interested to continue, as he's told his story now, no point in continuing. Leaving on a high note, and all that. I wouldn't want another director to try to mimic the style or for Nolan to be forced to continue the story. Most comic book stories go downward when those situations happen. Problem is, Nolan's Batman has probably become "THE" standard for Batman movies now. I think anyone following him would probably try to ape his style and it may not work - or the studio will try to make him do that. I'd love to see a David Fincher Batman movie. It would probably be dark as hell, but I always thought he'd make a great Batman director.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 2:10:31 GMT -5
I have midnight tickets, but I wasn't keen on "The Dark Knight" despite warming up to it in recent years, and while I liked "Inception" more on first-blush, re-watching it produces diminishing returns. I'm going into "TDKR" apprehensively because Nolan's 50/50 with me when it comes to Batman, and I hope he's not as dialogue/exposition-happy like he was with "Inception." I'm more excited for going to my first midnight screening ever period and that I get to hang out with one of my friends whom I haven't seen that much this summer while seeing it than for the film itself. It's not far-fetched really for someone to go see a midnight screening of a movie but not be pumped for it. Being excited for a movie doesn't mean it's a prerequisite to actually go see one. To a point, I do understand what you mean--I, too, have seen midnight showings without being super-ultra-crazy-hyped-this-will-be-the-best-movie-ever about the subject--but that post really rubbed me the wrong way, as in the poster will almost surely not be moved or care to be moved by what they're going to see in the first place. Pre-conceived notions and all. You have to have at least a modicum of excitement for the film in the circumstances. Normally, this wouldn't be a big thing (I see movies all the time I'm not 100% percent jazzed for; did it just the past weekend with Ted), but the midnight premiere--the absolutely very first shows available--tends to imply that you should have some sort of anticipation to go with the screening. I definitely understand the going with a friend thing in your case, but he did not mention that in his post either. I mean, this isn't like buying WrestleMania tickets a year in advance when you don't know what the card is going to be at all and then finding out it's something crappy. Dark Knight Rises has been in development for years and generated enough interviews, rumors, news, etc. so that it's not tough to tell what the tone of the movie will be. The tone of the post felt super-entitled, as in he just wants to see the movie first so he can be one of the first to write it off. I mean, he says as much that he would have preferred this movie to fail or be some weird bomb rather than see what it is. He's not obligated to go see this movie if it looks like it is not worth his time or if he thinks this hype is some dumb pop cultural fad. Also, apologies, Lizuka, if you intend none of this. This was just my reading of the post and the vibe it gave me. Oh, sorry, not quite how I meant it. I intend to see it at midnight mostly because that's when I saw Dark Knight - which I can't say for all of them, since I didn't see Begins until like two and a half years after it came out, but hey, it's a streak. As for the movie - I do expect to enjoy it, I just don't find myself caring much about it going in. Mostly just glad Nolan's time with Batman is over after it, and the trailers and things just make this movie look so much less fun than Avengers that I'm just not feeling buzzed about it at all. Plus it doesn't help that I really didn't like Inception that much. It was alright but couldn't get much into it.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 17, 2012 3:45:48 GMT -5
I will say, though, the Batman & Robin release probably did teach WB one thing that helped big when they relaunched with Begins: Don't use your movie as a shill for toys and comics. That seemed to have helped these movie, as it made it Nolan's baby and not WB's/DC's. are you kidding? do you know how much The Dark Knight Rises would be if they included the Neon Talking Super Street Bat-Luge and/or Alpine Ice Climber Batman GET LOW AND LET'S GO!
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hassanchop
Grimlock
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Post by hassanchop on Jul 17, 2012 8:31:32 GMT -5
Great idea! We also need more puns. You can never have enough puns. Don't forget a bat credit card And we need brainless henchmen that just charge in, even though they have guns, Batman should smile and give a thumbs up, Robin should be a 20 something year old, yet acts like a 14 year old, and a sexist auction and the heroes should make public appearances and whore themselves out more like celebrities. And the villains should have exaggerated cartoonish laughter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 9:58:55 GMT -5
I think comparing Avengers to DKR is a bad idea. Two different films trying to accomplish two very different things.
That being said, while I enjoyed both, neither franchises have been that great to me. I wouldn't buy Nolan's Batman or any of the recent Marvel films on bluray or even see them more than once in the theater. They're all well-done, but none of them really wowed me so while I'll watch DKR in the theater I can definitely understand people being glad with the franchise being done.
In addition to that - I mean, things shouldn't go on forever. Stories are finite - this story has been told and will be over (with DKR). Carrying it on at this point would just be superfluous and stupid. I could do without another Batman, Superman, Spiderman or X-Men for a least a generation and let other stories be told.
Edit - speaking of which, everyone be sure to watch Looper when it comes out. Looper will be the Batman of non-batman films.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jul 17, 2012 10:03:42 GMT -5
Don't forget a bat credit card And we need brainless henchmen that just charge in, even though they have guns, Batman should smile and give a thumbs up, Robin should be a 20 something year old, yet acts like a 14 year old, and a sexist auction and the heroes should make public appearances and whore themselves out more like celebrities. And the villains should have exaggerated cartoonish laughter. well if they're going to have brainless henchmen, then Batman needs to have the cape whoosh ability. bad guys charge in as a group, Batman grabs his cape, spins around, there is a loud whoosh sound, and the bad guys all fall down
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 10:07:52 GMT -5
I think comparing Avengers to DKR is a bad idea. Two different films trying to accomplish two very different things. That being said, while I enjoyed both, neither franchises have been that great to me. I wouldn't buy Nolan's Batman or any of the recent Marvel films on bluray or even see them more than once in the theater. They're all well-done, but none of them really wowed me so while I'll watch DKR in the theater I can definitely understand people being glad with the franchise being done. In addition to that - I mean, things shouldn't go on forever. Stories are finite - this story has been told and will be over (with DKR). Carrying it on at this point would just be superfluous and stupid. I could do without another Batman, Superman, Spiderman or X-Men for a least a generation and let other stories be told. Edit - speaking of which, everyone be sure to watch Looper when it comes out. Looper will be the Batman of non-batman films. ^This. I'll never understand the outrage. People want so desperately for a film to perfectly capture the spirit of what they know in their heart has to be a comic and then bitch and moan when it fails to meet their expectations. Guess what? The director hasn't read all that s^*$. He doesn't know. He's got your money, though, so he wins. Personally, I like the DKs. They're not perfect, but they seek to capture the moodiness that is Batman a lot more than previous goofy pictures did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 20:10:08 GMT -5
Let's move on to something awesome. In anticipation (and the fact that they'll be airing a 5 hour marathon on Friday thanks to the movie), The Hub released this video. F***ing beautiful.
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Post by Cela on Jul 17, 2012 20:19:46 GMT -5
^Well, i clarified it in the last post to make it some, not all. Well, people may want it to continue, but considering it's the end, and as mentioned that Nolan himself isn't interested to continue, as he's told his story now, no point in continuing. Leaving on a high note, and all that. I wouldn't want another director to try to mimic the style or for Nolan to be forced to continue the story. Most comic book stories go downward when those situations happen. Problem is, Nolan's Batman has probably become "THE" standard for Batman movies now. I think anyone following him would probably try to ape his style and it may not work - or the studio will try to make him do that. I'd love to see a David Fincher Batman movie. It would probably be dark as hell, but I always thought he'd make a great Batman director. No actor could handle 100 takes for every scene in a Batsuit. (Fincher's Modus Operandi)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 20:31:59 GMT -5
I think comparing Avengers to DKR is a bad idea. Two different films trying to accomplish two very different things. That being said, while I enjoyed both, neither franchises have been that great to me. I wouldn't buy Nolan's Batman or any of the recent Marvel films on bluray or even see them more than once in the theater. They're all well-done, but none of them really wowed me so while I'll watch DKR in the theater I can definitely understand people being glad with the franchise being done. In addition to that - I mean, things shouldn't go on forever. Stories are finite - this story has been told and will be over (with DKR). Carrying it on at this point would just be superfluous and stupid. I could do without another Batman, Superman, Spiderman or X-Men for a least a generation and let other stories be told. Edit - speaking of which, everyone be sure to watch Looper when it comes out. Looper will be the Batman of non-batman films. Guess what? The director hasn't read all that s^*$. He doesn't know. He's got your money, though, so he wins. Except for the Avengers and Iron Man, where the director has. I didn't know I could lose by watching a movie....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 20:37:49 GMT -5
Guess what? The director hasn't read all that s^*$. He doesn't know. He's got your money, though, so he wins. Except for the Avengers and Iron Man, where the director has. I didn't know I could lose by watching a movie.... Ouch, we've got Tommy Acerbic over here. 'Cause my point was so hard to reach, huh? Yes, Avengers and Iron Man both display a higher than is to be expected level of dorkdom, but that's not par for the course. All I really meant was that if you're a fan of the comic, than you shouldn't be so quick to expect that they translate that world beautifully into a film, as that is seldom the case. ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 20:44:11 GMT -5
Except for the Avengers and Iron Man, where the director has. I didn't know I could lose by watching a movie.... Ouch, we've got Tommy Acerbic over here. 'Cause my point was so hard to reach, huh? Yes, Avengers and Iron Man both display a higher than is to be expected level of dorkdom, but that's not par for the course. All I really meant was that if you're a fan of the comic, than you shouldn't be so quick to expect that they translate that world beautifully into a film, as that is seldom the case. ... I'm sorry but I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what to do if your a fan of something. I don't believe that I'm in a struggle with a director or a writer where I "lose" if I don't like their product but gave them money to view it. That's patently psychotic sounding to me. I like both film approaches but prefer a product that has a greater fidelity to the source material. Since I'm an adult posting on a forum about things that I am a fan of, I believe I have the full right to express my view points without being called names, a courtesy that I extend to others. Do not flame me again for expressing an opinion please.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jul 17, 2012 20:47:45 GMT -5
What I have trouble understanding is how how certain people can say these Batman films have been too serious and not any fun/excitement?
So in Batman Begins watching Bruce on his first night out as Batman wasn't exciting, suspenseful, and fun? Him taking out a bunch of ninjas wasn't exciting enough?
How about in the sequel watching the amazing chase sequence between him and the Joker, the interrogation scene, Batman taking out a bunch of Swat officers, and the hospital sequence? These films have had a lot of over the top, exciting, and suspenseful moments that could've been ripped from the comics as well.
I honestly think a lot of people just want the extremely over the top, slow motion/bullet time, and fancy martial arts action when it comes to Batman.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 20:49:17 GMT -5
Ouch, we've got Tommy Acerbic over here. 'Cause my point was so hard to reach, huh? Yes, Avengers and Iron Man both display a higher than is to be expected level of dorkdom, but that's not par for the course. All I really meant was that if you're a fan of the comic, than you shouldn't be so quick to expect that they translate that world beautifully into a film, as that is seldom the case. ... I'm sorry but I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what to do if your a fan of something. I don't believe that I'm in a struggle with a director or a writer where I "lose" if I don't like their product but gave them money to view it. That's patently psychotic sounding to me. I like both film approaches but prefer a product that has a greater fidelity to the source material. Since I'm an adult posting on a forum about things that I am a fan of, I believe I have the full right to express my view points without being called names, a courtesy that I extend to others. Do not flame me again for expressing an opinion please. Didn't mean to flame, my friend, just being a d-bag. Nothing personal, I assure you. I apologize if you were offended. All I have is an opinion, same as you. I don't pretend to be the voice of reason or anything.
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