Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Jan 24, 2013 7:58:06 GMT -5
Lucha's had a down year or two, with no real major movement up top, and only a smattering of really good matches. This year started with a bang with that Polvora/Titan match, and hopefully there'll be some sort of rebound this year, hopefully taking inspiration from how New Japan managed to bounce back in recent years.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 24, 2013 9:13:56 GMT -5
Lucha is kinda boring if you have watch it all your life, in Mexico it's almost as popular as football, I dislike both, I've been in Lucha Libre shows since I was a kid, before even knowing about american wrestling and WWE, in first it was amusing because that was the only wrestling I knew, becoming a WWE fan made me see how bad some of the lucha was; in my opinion even the worst WWE moments are more entertaining than some lucha libre matches, storylines or gimmicks, of course, that just my opinion, I grew up with Lucha in my life, that would be different to someone from other country, so I'm sorry if I offend someone here. Never thought about this viewpoint. Totally understandable growing up watching one thing and yearning for something else.
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Post by greatmuta on Jan 24, 2013 11:54:24 GMT -5
I don't know about the rest of the voters but I remember Dave himself saying he doesn't get to watch a lot of AAA TV. For some reason, Lucha isn't all that accessible. You can order some DVDs online but it's much easier to see Japanese stuff. The New Japan iPPVs are on Youtube just a few days after they air as are All Japan big shows. Lucha is extremely accessible. Thecubsfan posts all shows weekly on YouTube and on his website. Check it out here: www.youtube.com/user/thecubsfan . Most people also get lucha every weekend on American TV as it is on channels like Galavision, Canal 52MX and Fox Sports Mexico.
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Post by greatmuta on Jan 24, 2013 12:18:38 GMT -5
The big thing that holds lucha back in the IWC is that Meltzer doesn't talk about it anymore. AAA was quite popular in the IWC due to him. If Meltzer wasn't into NJ, I guarantee there would be a lot less interest.
Lucha is very good but is different. The main things I like are: - Tons of highflying and cool submissions - Lots of color, masks and characters all around - Ring girls
Lucha is different and has different rules so it does take a little to get used to, but its not a big deal, especially in AAA which has American rules.
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beamanhogan
Team Rocket
RIP - Macho for Hall of Fame
Posts: 867
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Post by beamanhogan on Jan 24, 2013 13:25:11 GMT -5
I think of it like hockey.
1) It is much better in person than on TV. 2) There is a country who absolutely loves it more than another country 3) Hockey players rarely show up in the best athlete discussions similarly to that most luchadors aren't in the discussion of best wrestlers in the world. 4) The people in the US that like it really like it
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Post by Medicinal Thunder Liger on Jan 24, 2013 14:20:43 GMT -5
I think lucha is still very prevelant, you just need to look where its talked about a lot. there are luchadors like sombra, that guy mistico who's on WWE TV now, not to mention Mysterio himself all started out bred into that style and those matches who all recieve/have recieved a lot of praise internationally. its just different psychology for different places. what do you guys think would be the worse, a luchas 6 man with not a whole lot of selling, but constant flow that might not seem like it makes sense, OR the all japan crew in the 90's psychology of constant no-selling of head drops and big finishes. its just all different.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 24, 2013 14:45:57 GMT -5
Just based on the shows i catch at 3 am on Saturdays....it just seems sloppy and slow. Maybe I'm watching the wrong thing, but saying they're fast paced seems backwards. They are just kind of walking around, mildly slapping each other and doing arm drags (yes I know I'm being general, but I'm making my point)
I think I'm spoiled because of WCW. It's weird because the guys like La Parka, Juvi, Rey and Psicosis and WCW didn't wrestle like every other lucha match i've ever seen. I guess they amped it up for Americans....and that worked because now lucha seems really slow and boring to me.
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Post by dlg3000 on Jan 24, 2013 20:19:46 GMT -5
Lucha can be boring, but so can US and Japanese wrestling. I don't think Mexican wrestling is bad, but it has its differences and its similarities. I find it interesting that there are two referees on average per match in Mexico.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Jan 24, 2013 20:56:38 GMT -5
On the one hand, it's said to be a difficult translation from lucha to North American style ... but there have been far more successful mainstream U.S. guys from lucha than from Japan.
It's sad that one guy, even one as respected as Meltzer, can influence things to the point that if he doesn't follow or care for one style of wrestling then the best lucha is ranked below the most mid-card of U.S. and Japanese guys and those promotions don't rank anywhere when discussions or rankings of worldwide wrestling are compiled.
How many Mexicans (who wrestle in Mexico, not WWE) have been ranked in the last PWI 500? I mean, there are guys performing in front of 11 people in high school gyms in the top 300 -- including one from a promotion local to me ... but, of course, he's wrestled in JAPAN!!!
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Post by greatmuta on Jan 25, 2013 18:39:21 GMT -5
PWI 500 is mostly a joke. People pay to get in it and its rather random. It's no way to judge any wrestler and international guys aren't focused on because they don't draw magazine sales.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Jan 25, 2013 19:48:12 GMT -5
Yeah, the jump from American Traditional to Puro isn't that huge. The jump from American to British Style isn't that huge but the jump from any style to Lucha is GIGANTIC. The "psychology" or whatever works in a completely different way. Lucha is about totally different things and works in different ways. Which is why Sin Cara had so much trouble fitting in compared to say, Rey and Eddie, who grew up basically in the middle of both styles
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 25, 2013 20:00:03 GMT -5
PWI 500 is mostly a joke. People pay to get in it and its rather random. It's no way to judge any wrestler and international guys aren't focused on because they don't draw magazine sales. Then explain Powerslam Magazine's Power 50. A good number of people following pro wrestling listen to Meltzer's musing like he's delivering the Sermon on the Mount. When he told people that IWA Puerto Rico was producing the best tv show, folks sought it out. When he said that AAA was revolutionary, people went in search for it. Right now, NJPW got back on his radar and folks are singing its praises who are not regulars on the puroresu forums. Who know, he may get back into it again and people follow suit.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Jan 26, 2013 1:57:30 GMT -5
I think it's the no selling done in a lot of Mexican wrestling..but that's the entire style, so it's hard to complain.
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Post by Stu on Jan 26, 2013 2:05:11 GMT -5
Could someone post that gif? The "In Japan, it's a sport; in Mexico, it's a religion ..... "
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Post by YiHammer on Jan 26, 2013 2:32:56 GMT -5
Could someone post that gif? The "In Japan, it's a sport; in Mexico, it's a religion ..... " I don't think it's a gif
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Post by kidtamagotchi on Jan 26, 2013 3:22:24 GMT -5
I don't know why others have a hard time understanding lucha, it's pretty easy to watch. Then again, I started watching lucha at the same time I got into American Wrestling (91-92).
I do hate how when lucha libre or luchadors are shown in American media, they are treated like jokes.
I think some of the best wrestlers in the world are in lucha libre. Mistico (Sin Cara) is at a high level. You mean to tell me he could have great matches in Japan, but not in WWE? Not even that false prophet Dolph Ziggler could have a good match with him.
Other world-class luchadors: La Sombra, Mascara Dorada, Volador Jr., Gran Apache, Fabi Apache, Mari Apache, Lady Apache, Marcella, Negro Casas (Chris Jericho talks about him in his first book), El Hijo Del Santo (true perfection, he hits his moves with such grace and perfection), Angel De Oro, Ultimo Guerrero, Averno
People just have to have an open mind about it.
(The CMLL ring girls are some of the hottest women on Earth)
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Post by Manute Bol on Jan 28, 2013 9:54:17 GMT -5
I tried really hard to get into CMLL but gave up after about 2-3 months. Some of the matches were good, a few interesting characters, and some GORGEOUS women, but overall it just became a chore to watch.
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Brainbustaaah!
Hank Scorpio
Best Damn Finishing Move Period
Posts: 5,600
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on Jan 28, 2013 10:02:01 GMT -5
Could someone post that gif? The "In Japan, it's a sport; in Mexico, it's a religion ..... " In America, it's a joke. In Canada, it's a tradition. In Japan, it's a sport. In Mexico, it's a religion.
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Post by Manute Bol on Jan 28, 2013 13:08:10 GMT -5
Could someone post that gif? The "In Japan, it's a sport; in Mexico, it's a religion ..... " In America, it's a joke. In Canada, it's a tradition. In Japan, it's a sport. In Mexico, it's a religion. Wow that's incredible. Perfectly said.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
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Post by Glitch on Jan 28, 2013 17:38:05 GMT -5
Could someone post that gif? The "In Japan, it's a sport; in Mexico, it's a religion ..... " In America, it's a joke. In Canada, it's a tradition. In Japan, it's a sport. In Mexico, it's a religion. I remember it was both a still pic and a gif. The gif has all the respected wrestlers from each region(I remember it had Benoit pre-murder). When it shows America, it shows someone getting their face put onto Vince's ass(I think Shawn Michaels).
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