kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,279
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Jan 28, 2013 0:17:06 GMT -5
Frankly, it wasn't "less internet" that has made me less emotional about WWE outcomes.
It's that I have other outlets. For wrestling, and other stuff. Since the end of 2009 or so, I've been an avid follower of New Japan Pro Wrestling. I also watch BJPW, CHIKARA, SHIMMER, and a ton of other stuff.
I have stuff that I enjoy already. So if the E isn't that, moving on isn't a problem. So I guess less of a need for the product to satisfy me has helped.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,279
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Jan 28, 2013 0:19:23 GMT -5
But to answer the question, discourse always changes opinions. Whether to reaffirm them or morph them completely. That's why criticism of the status quo helps formulate the innovations and successes of tomorrow. Or just leaves a person a cynical isolated mess.
This isn't just a wrestling thing.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Jan 28, 2013 0:22:50 GMT -5
I'm just really glad I closed my laptop to watch the Rumble tonight. Maybe that's why the negativity threw me for a loop. I had a blast. A lot of the negativity came from people who weren't even watching. I still cannot wrap my mind around that percentage of posters who claim not to have watched for years but still spend an inordinate amount of time on a wrestling forum.
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Post by Mc Mc Mannequin on Jan 28, 2013 0:28:33 GMT -5
Is anyone else like me? Sometimes I feel like the only one.
I never get angry over who wins and loses (not since I was a kid anyway). Bad storylines anger me or cartoony stuff like hornswoggle or segments about peoples dreams but never wins and loses.
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Post by Paco S. Loco on Jan 28, 2013 0:29:51 GMT -5
I don't think I'll ever understand gloating over people being passionate about something they enjoy. It be like me laughing hysterically at you crying because your kid fell off their bike for the first time and got a sprained wrist. It's just makes the person whose gloating look like a complete ass. Maybe I'm in the wrong for enjoying wrestling as much as I do, Maybe I should just keep quiet as poor decision after poor decision is being made booking wise. I'm sorry....I can't do that, I can't pretend to not want a company to do so much better then it is, To see again the day where I won't be embarrassed to say I watch wrestling in public. The Internet has allowed me to discuss and enjoy the product long after I stopped watching it on TV, So thank you internet forums for letting me have that last string of hope to hold onto that one day, just maybe, it'll get better. This. Well said. I'm just really glad I closed my laptop to watch the Rumble tonight. Maybe that's why the negativity threw me for a loop. I had a blast. A lot of the negativity came from people who weren't even watching. I still cannot wrap my mind around that percentage of posters who claim not to have watched for years but still spend an inordinate amount of time on a wrestling forum. And I can't understand why the people who hate people complaining about wrestling keep coming back to the board when they know what they're going to see is more complaints about wrestling..... which they will then spend their time reading and replying to and then complaining about.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Jan 28, 2013 0:30:57 GMT -5
Funny that a quote from me started this thread, as I consider myself to be a pretty smarky cynical dude.
But I still have the guys I cheer for, and WWE made me cynical long before the Royal Rumble tonight.
But I have tons of other wrestling that I can enjoy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 0:34:11 GMT -5
The internet can't ruin things for you that aren't already on the verge of being ruined anyway.
Its not like you HAVE to believe the things you read, in fact, you're more likely to find people who think the same way and reinforce something you already believe rather than just brush it off and ignore it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 0:34:48 GMT -5
I don't think I'll ever understand gloating over people being passionate about something they enjoy. It be like me laughing hysterically at you crying because your kid fell off their bike for the first time and got a sprained wrist. It's just makes the person whose gloating look like a complete ass. Maybe I'm in the wrong for enjoying wrestling as much as I do, Maybe I should just keep quiet as poor decision after poor decision is being made booking wise. I'm sorry....I can't do that, I can't pretend to not want a company to do so much better then it is, To see again the day where I won't be embarrassed to say I watch wrestling in public. The Internet has allowed me to discuss and enjoy the product long after I stopped watching it on TV, So thank you internet forums for letting me have that last string of hope to hold onto that one day, just maybe, it'll get better. There's just so much that I believe WWE can do better, and it pains me when they don't just because there's no reason to.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Jan 28, 2013 0:35:26 GMT -5
I'm just really glad I closed my laptop to watch the Rumble tonight. Maybe that's why the negativity threw me for a loop. I had a blast. A lot of the negativity came from people who weren't even watching. I still cannot wrap my mind around that percentage of posters who claim not to have watched for years but still spend an inordinate amount of time on a wrestling forum. I love this argument. People get yelled at for not liking the product, but not watching it, and get told by people that they have no right to bitch if they're not watching. But then they do watch, still bitch, and are then told that if they don't like it, stop watching. So...f*** opinions, apparently? I'll lay out how I felt about it. Regardless of the outcome of the two guys I dislike now being the focus of the next 2 months, it was an awesome show. Better than last years, and Jericho's return was a true surprise. I was resigned to the fact that Punk was not going to Wrestlemania as champ, and will more than likely not be winning at EC, and will more than likely do the job to Taker at Mania. I dislike that he lost. But it was going to happen, and takes away nothing from him as champ. But the prospect of Rock/Cena II for the title? Yawn.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Jan 28, 2013 0:36:27 GMT -5
What do you think? Are we better off watching wrestling without the internet? I don't think so at all, not for me anyway. I think a little bit of nostalgia influences this idea that we should just be sitting down and lopping all that happens in wrestling up. All forms of art open themselves up to scrutiny once it's out in the world. I see the aftermath of Royal Rumble and how everyone gets worked up, some more than others and I do catch myself and others getting wrapped up in minutia at times. But everyone does this with everything, music, movies, art, and wrestling is no different. It's easy to let your guard down when you're a kid because you don't know any better. As you get older you get a better sense of what you like and don't like, and that's what gets discussed on forums like this. I can still sit down and see faults in things that I love, I hated the ending of the Royal Rumble match but I can overlook it. I love Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy to death but I can name you tons of things I don't like about them. I feel like the internet has heightened my understanding and appreciation of professional wrestling as an art form. Just as it has with music and film, it's gone beyond "I hope John Cena finally gets even with John Laurenitis" to really having an appreciation for the sacrifices they make for their craft. This is definitely the upside of the internet, and is the reason why I keep coming back to forums. I definitely agree with this. However, for as much as WWE gets claimed for "brainwashing" the audience into thinking everything they do is right, I feel for a lot of people, the internet "brainwashes" them into thinking everything WWE does is wrong. There's people who find the perfect medium between the two; being able to watch and enjoy the WWE while discussing about it on forums without being so incredibly jaded, and that's awesome. I completely appreciate knowing more about something you really like than you should via the internet for the sake of knowledge. But then, how much is too much to the point where almost nothing satisfies you anymore?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 28, 2013 0:47:59 GMT -5
If I'm actually going to see a show live/buy it, I will avoid the forums and spoilers like the plague in the days and weeks leading up to it so I can watch the angles, watch the show and decide how I feel before I come on here.
I loved everything I saw of tonight's show. Every time I love a show, I tend to come on here and find half of the forum calling it the worst show ever.
When it comes to how I feel about a show, I've spent so long being a 'smark' as we so call it that I end up having two opinions about how a match should end - the guy I want to win, and the guy who I think will be better for business if he wins. That kind of depresses me.
When guys like The Rock, who are mythical from my childhood/teenagerdom, come back, I get to be a mark again. The Rumble match in general lets me be a mark again.
I miss being a mark, and it's nice to get to be one again.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,723
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jan 28, 2013 0:57:59 GMT -5
I'm just really glad I closed my laptop to watch the Rumble tonight. Maybe that's why the negativity threw me for a loop. I had a blast. Honestly, that's how I watch most wrestling, I find it much more entertaining to just watch the show and not over analyze things until well after the fact. This is my philosophy too and I wish more people would adopt it. Enjoy the show while its on. Put your critical side aside and enjoy the fun and spectacle of the show. The criticism and over-analysis is fun too but do it AFTER the show you know?
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Jan 28, 2013 0:58:23 GMT -5
I don't think I'll ever understand gloating over people being passionate about something they enjoy. It be like me laughing hysterically at you crying because your kid fell off their bike for the first time and got a sprained wrist. It's just makes the person whose gloating look like a complete ass. Maybe I'm in the wrong for enjoying wrestling as much as I do, Maybe I should just keep quiet as poor decision after poor decision is being made booking wise. I'm sorry....I can't do that, I can't pretend to not want a company to do so much better then it is, To see again the day where I won't be embarrassed to say I watch wrestling in public. The Internet has allowed me to discuss and enjoy the product long after I stopped watching it on TV, So thank you internet forums for letting me have that last string of hope to hold onto that one day, just maybe, it'll get better. Loved this. Great post.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 28, 2013 1:00:07 GMT -5
Is anyone else like me? Sometimes I feel like the only one. I never get angry over who wins and loses (not since I was a kid anyway). Bad storylines anger me or cartoony stuff like hornswoggle or segments about peoples dreams but never wins and loses. That's how I'm like. I mean, there are things that happen that I don't like, but I don't waste my energy getting angry about it. I try to look for silver linings anywhere I can, no matter how trivial.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 2:04:36 GMT -5
I don't think so at all, not for me anyway. I think a little bit of nostalgia influences this idea that we should just be sitting down and lopping all that happens in wrestling up. All forms of art open themselves up to scrutiny once it's out in the world. I see the aftermath of Royal Rumble and how everyone gets worked up, some more than others and I do catch myself and others getting wrapped up in minutia at times. But everyone does this with everything, music, movies, art, and wrestling is no different. It's easy to let your guard down when you're a kid because you don't know any better. As you get older you get a better sense of what you like and don't like, and that's what gets discussed on forums like this. I can still sit down and see faults in things that I love, I hated the ending of the Royal Rumble match but I can overlook it. I love Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy to death but I can name you tons of things I don't like about them. I feel like the internet has heightened my understanding and appreciation of professional wrestling as an art form. Just as it has with music and film, it's gone beyond "I hope John Cena finally gets even with John Laurenitis" to really having an appreciation for the sacrifices they make for their craft. This is definitely the upside of the internet, and is the reason why I keep coming back to forums. I definitely agree with this. However, for as much as WWE gets claimed for "brainwashing" the audience into thinking everything they do is right, I feel for a lot of people, the internet "brainwashes" them into thinking everything WWE does is wrong. There's people who find the perfect medium between the two; being able to watch and enjoy the WWE while discussing about it on forums without being so incredibly jaded, and that's awesome. I completely appreciate knowing more about something you really like than you should via the internet for the sake of knowledge. But then, how much is too much to the point where almost nothing satisfies you anymore? I think the internet definitely affects everyone, just whether it's negative or not is a case by case thing. I know there was a time where I probably was adversely influenced. When I first got on the internet when I was younger it was around when Triple H's "reign of terror" was a thing, and I distinctly remember hating a lot of stuff that I now look back on with fondness. There was a time where I thought JR was an over the hill piece of garbage that should quit, and I'm certain I was wholly unreasonable in a lot of my criticism about several things but I think everyone has that moment when they start thinking critically about the things they enjoy where they have to catch themselves in their own bullshit and stop acting like they know everything, before they can really start to formulate an honest opinion about it. I think you can only go on hating every facet of something before you either realize you're just not into it anymore and move on, or re-evaluate it and try and find something to enjoy. I don't know if as a whole we're better or worse off, there are times I think the internet does spoil us. Going deeper than just wrestling there are a lot of times I go online and just find a slew of people who just make me think humanity is doomed, but then there are forums like this where there are reasonable people. It's hard to say if the internet has really changed things or if it's just brought to light behaviors of people you never really would have been exposed to otherwise.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Jan 28, 2013 3:02:50 GMT -5
I've a feeling that this post will be taken out of context, but there you go.
I can definitely say that sometimes I enjoy wrestling more without the internet, but it depends on a lot of things. This is because I frankly don't give a crap about what makes the most money for the WWE and a lot of the points being made are about that. And there's no denying that--real life or in the internet--if you are enjoying something and somebody comes around and goes "THIS IS SO STUPID" you are going to have to take a moment to process that. Not in the sense that somebody disliking something will make you not like it, but in the sense that it's hard to focus on having fun when you see somebody talking about why you shouldn't be having fun. Sometimes you throw a random comment like "Man, I wish wrestler X would have a match" and somebody else goes 'HIS MIC/RING/CHARISMA/INVISIBLE FOURTH POINT/WWE 13 STATS ARE BAD, HE CAN'T DRAW MONEY." Now, most of the times those are completely valid points--but they have nothing at all with the discussion in addition to the fact people are more or less aware of that already. It's like talking about Santa Claus with your friends when some guy goes "Why are you talking about Santa Claus? He's not real!" and it's just destroys the Christmas mood when somebody is like that. Nobody thinks Santa is real, saying that just feels like trying to stop people from enjoying Christmas. Geez.
I'm not saying that it's wrong for people to say those things because, hey, this is a wrestling board. We discuss wrestling here. It's not reasonable of me to expect that people don't discuss a topic just because I don't like that specific topic. Plus I'd need to expect that people can read my mind and know what topics I think are annoying, which would be doubly unreasonable. But it's pretty expected that hearing people post in rather...well, sometimes sorta confrontational tone toward a stance you have generally isn't fun, even if it's not directed at you personally. It is especially bad when this confrontational tone is accompanied by no argument at all.
So yeah, I can definitely say that I enjoy wrestling more in certain way when I don't post in any forums because my tastes seem to be pretty different from everybody else and the negativity towards it can be off-putting. Most of the times there isn't much of a discussion, and even if there is one, it tends to go around in circles with people repeating the same points somebody else already countered pages before.
So why do I come here? Because it's a trade-off. What I just said? Yeah, I mean it. But that's just one aspect of the thing. I also enjoy wrestling a lot more when people get together and make fun of crap, and damn, I love you guys because of that. Nobody is as good as making fun of things as this board. You guys mark out better than anyone whose birth name is mark.
Like, just like posts about being upset with the product can bring the mood down, the opposite is true too. And the trade-off feels like it's worth it to me, so I post here and just try to stay out of the discussions I feel aren't going to be fun. It's not that I get annoyed whenever people have opinions different than me, it's that sometimes when I see people arguing about things, the argument seems like they are either going to circle all the way back to the beginning or just flat out use circular reasoning.
For example, somebody goes "This is a horrible thing. Wrestler X isn't serious anymore, and that's bad because he isn't serious." At no point does the argument ever address whether being serious is a good or a bad thing and just jumps straight to the second part, and then it feels like the argument has been "rigged" so to speak.
So to sum up, I don't personally enjoy many arguments around here because they don't seem fun. So in that sense I enjoy wrestling more when I don't read the board. The opposite goes for good moments though. What I'm saying is, the internet makes the lows lower and the highs higher. To me, it balances out positively, so I keep coming here.
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Post by Da (No Sold) 7-1-3 Itch on Jan 28, 2013 3:22:59 GMT -5
I used to post a lot on here but left after soo much negativity that plagued this place a couple years ago.
I stopped watching for about a year when I caught wind of Punk's shoot (I was a fan since his debut and looked up what he was doing from time to time) and got right back into it.
It was much more enjoyable watching without having my opinions skewed by this board and the internet. Half the time I didn't have a clue who a lot of the new guys were and when I returned to the board and had no idea why a lot of these guys were so loved on here.
I used to enjoy Batista before coming on this board, same for Goldberg. The internet really does influence my opinions more that I thought.
Still I come back and lurk for the comedy on here every now and then.
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Post by thetimetraveler on Jan 28, 2013 4:43:36 GMT -5
The only problem with the internet is that the most vocal/reactionary people will post the most often. This kind of creates a "false dialogue" that isn't really happening. The internet isn't really the problem, but the people posting in most cases.
It's pretty much the reason that 90% of message boards now read like a YouTube comment section.
So the internet isn't to blame and neither is spirited debate.
As far as the "I just want WWE to be better argument"....well...how so? They're apparently good enough for you to intently follow their product, post tons of messages based on their product and have also made you emotionally invested in their product.
My only question would be the following:
Are you as vocal about the things they do right as you are the things they do wrong?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 28, 2013 5:00:56 GMT -5
Do some take it to the extreme? Yes. But those who are never happy are just as bad as those who think you should enjoy everything the WWE throws out. Therein lies the dilemma of being a WWE fan. Look, I don't like the Rock and Cena main eventing another Wrestlemania. But like CM Punk said a couple of weeks ago, "I don't matter". The company answers to shareholders. They also are always looking for an opportunity to get some mainstream attention. In their world, the Rock being WWE Champion will provide that. Will it work? Depends. But that's a risk they are more than willing to take. They also know while there is a vocal minority out there who may be upset with Ziggler not winning the Rumble or Punk not retaining the title, they know that the majority of those people will still watch Wrestlemania in spite of their insistence that they won't. Because like my aforementioned baseball analogy, you root for the people you want to root for through good times and the more occasional bad times. The thing though is that wrestling in general doesn't exist to be entertaining, it exists to make money. If WWE could put on the shittiest show possible and that somehow would make them the most money, they're gonna do it because that's the business thing to do. It sucks thinking like that, but it's true. Personally I think some people take certain things too personally. Like CM Punk losing tonight, they feel as if WWE went and stabbed them in the heart when in reality, they just decided to take the title off of a guy who probably had it a lot longer than he should have.
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Post by celticjobber on Jan 28, 2013 5:03:54 GMT -5
I think it's the opposite.
If you've been reading all of the news sites, especially stuff from people who are usually reliable like Dave Meltzer -- the results tonight and the direction for 'Mania have seemed obvious and set in stone for several months now.
So it seems like the Rumble results wouldn't have been so disappointing.
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