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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 15, 2013 23:11:51 GMT -5
Has Cena tapped in the last 9 years?
It's the 9th anniversary of his last submission loss, versus Angle/Show at No Way Out 2004; unless I'm missing something.
Am I?
If it's the case, it weird to think. Anyone with a tenure or position Cena's has cracked the mat in defeat over the years; HHH, HBK, Orton, Punk, Batista and whatnot. The only one who's exempt would be 'Taker and Rock, with the former actually tapping in a pin/submission deal, and Rock's been KO'd by the Mandible Claw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 23:16:28 GMT -5
It's Cena. The same will likely be true in another five years at the very least.
I don't even have any kind of hostility to it, it's more this grudging acceptance that Cena will never make anyone younger than he is look to be his superior in the ring. And no, Punk doesn't count. Because as soon as he became a heel, that quickly ended.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 15, 2013 23:19:31 GMT -5
I don't even have any kind of hostility to it, it's more this grudging acceptance that Cena will never make anyone younger than he is look to be his superior in the ring. It actually sounds like you have a lot of hostility towards it. It's not a statement of the moral failings of Cena. Main event babyfaces very rarely give up. How many examples can we come up with of THE top babyface losing by submission in the last 50 years? |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 15, 2013 23:19:42 GMT -5
To be fair, Cena's whole character is a guy that "Never Gives Up".
The thing about all the guys that you mentioned is that they were pretty much all heels when they tapped out (HBK and Orton being the exceptions). Cena is the valiant never-say-die babyface so it's only expected that he's not gonna tap out.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Feb 15, 2013 23:20:50 GMT -5
Well to give a bit of the benefit of the doubt to the WWE, most of Cena's big time opponents over the year are not submission specialize that rely solely on making someone tap out(Edge,HHH,Orton,Rock, Show, Miz, Batista,HBK and so forth) so they don't usually put Cena in matches where the heel's only strategy is to get Cena submit in order to win.
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Post by BiloxiParish on Feb 15, 2013 23:21:56 GMT -5
If Chris Benoit was here right now...
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 15, 2013 23:22:33 GMT -5
Well to give a bit of the benefit of the doubt to the WWE, most of Cena's big time opponents over the year are not submission specialize that rely solely on making someone tap out(Edge,HHH,Orton,Rock, Show, Miz, Batista,HBK and so forth) so they don't usually put Cena in matches where the heel's only strategy is to get Cena submit in order to win. There's also this. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Chris Masters, Chris Jericho, and Kurt Angle |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 23:24:17 GMT -5
I don't even have any kind of hostility to it, it's more this grudging acceptance that Cena will never make anyone younger than he is look to be his superior in the ring. It actually sounds like you have a lot of hostility towards it. It's not a statement of the moral failings of Cena. Main event babyfaces very rarely give up. How many examples can we come up with of THE top babyface losing by submission in the last 50 years? Not many at all, to be sure. But how many guys have been the top babyface for nearly 10 years and been wrestling on TV every week and PPV every month? Not hostility though. I don't like it but I don't think of it too much or am really bothered by it. I don't like the fact I can't build a time machine to correct mistakes I make in life but I know that isn't going to happen, so I don't worry about it. Cena being booked as a human is about as likely as that time machine. I don't enjoy it but I understand pretty well that it's just the natural order right now. |
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Post by molson5 on Feb 15, 2013 23:24:51 GMT -5
And I know that for whatever reason how often a guy loses and submits is equated with his moral fiber sometimes, but do we really think that the WWE desperately wants Cena to tap out and he just refuses to do it?
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Post by molson5 on Feb 15, 2013 23:28:11 GMT -5
It actually sounds like you have a lot of hostility towards it. It's not a statement of the moral failings of Cena. Main event babyfaces very rarely give up. How many examples can we come up with of THE top babyface losing by submission in the last 50 years? Not many at all, to be sure. But how many guys have been the top babyface for nearly 10 years and been wrestling on TV every week and PPV every month? Not many, but we can add up the top runs of the other guys and get more than 10 years and not identify a lot (if any?) submission losses. Sammartino, Morales, Backlund, Hogan, Warrior, Hart, HBK's face run, Diesel, Austin, Rock....that's maybe 30 years of top guys pre-Cena, how many submission losses are there? |
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 15, 2013 23:28:16 GMT -5
To be fair, Cena's whole character is a guy that "Never Gives Up". The thing about all the guys that you mentioned is that they were pretty much all heels when they tapped out (HBK and Orton being the exceptions). Cena is the valiant never-say-die babyface so it's only expected that he's not gonna tap out. Face HHH tapped in the Chamber to Cena in '10 and Lesnar just recently. Punk tapped to Bryan as a face, at OtL '12, during a pin/tap finish. Which'd leave 'Tista as the only exception, really. He definitely hasn't tapped since then? Not even in a shadow-tap way, during a beatdown or a ref-bump? If so, does anyone envision it ever getting played up? It's quite a streak to promote, if things get tight. |
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Post by BiloxiParish on Feb 15, 2013 23:29:21 GMT -5
John Cena to backstage booker- "I will not tap out to the Anaconda Vice, the Hells Gate, The Patriot Act, The Yes Lock, The Irish Cloverleaf, The Sharp Shooter, and the Tazz Mission... I will never Tap out to anything if I tap I quit and join TNA"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 23:30:47 GMT -5
Last time he was with Nikki Bella  |
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Feb 15, 2013 23:31:17 GMT -5
I've never understood why WWE never uses the 'face passes out due to the pain' finish for any of their main event faces. I mean, I get that you could run the risk of overusing it, but they NEVER use it.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Feb 15, 2013 23:33:16 GMT -5
You ask excellent, excellent question Mr. Dan Maloney. But I want to let you know that if Iron Sheik was still wrestler he'd suplex John Cena, break his back and then f*** his ass old country way. That Cena is worse than Michael Jordan Michael Jackson. That Cena was lucky punk that Mr. Hacksaw come save him.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 15, 2013 23:33:21 GMT -5
To be fair, Cena's whole character is a guy that "Never Gives Up". The thing about all the guys that you mentioned is that they were pretty much all heels when they tapped out (HBK and Orton being the exceptions). Cena is the valiant never-say-die babyface so it's only expected that he's not gonna tap out. Face HHH tapped in the Chamber to Cena in '10 and Lesnar just recently. Punk tapped to Bryan as a face, at OtL '12, during a pin/tap finish. Which'd leave 'Tista as the only exception, really. Forgot about H tapping out to Cena. I personally don't count Punk tapping out since he did it after he had already won but I can see the point you're making. Even then, none of those guys tapped out when they were THE GUY (face-wise) for WWE. |
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Post by BigWill on Feb 15, 2013 23:33:59 GMT -5
I've never understood why WWE never uses the 'face passes out due to the pain' finish for any of their main event faces. I mean, I get that you could run the risk of overusing it, but they NEVER use it. Bryan did it to Sheamus at Extreme Rules. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 23:34:59 GMT -5
Not many at all, to be sure. But how many guys have been the top babyface for nearly 10 years and been wrestling on TV every week and PPV every month? Not many, but we can add up the top runs of the other guys and get more than 10 years and not identify a lot (if any?) submission losses. Sammartino, Morales, Backlund, Hogan, Warrior, Hart, HBK's face run, Diesel, Austin, Rock....that's maybe 30 years of top guys pre-Cena, how many submission losses are there? Good point, but I'm saying that none of those guys wrestled on TV every week, were on PPV every month, in an age of rapid telecommunications, while simultaneously being main eventers for anywhere near as long as Cena has. Sammartino, Backlund, Morales and Hogan were top guys for long periods of time, but they were never close to Cena's omnipresence. Oh sure, Hogan was THE guy in a big way, but what made him so dramatically different from Cena was that Hogan wasn't wrestling on TV all the time. Often, Hogan didn't appear on TV at all for extended periods of time. Cena has had way more matches in the public domain as a main eventer than any of the guys you mentioned, and he's been exposed way more than those guys, and is still being booked as the top guy in the company. It's totally unprecedented and shows no signs of slowing down. And I don't think it will for years. Cena's near-invincibility has gone from being an annoying problem with the TV programming and turned into a law of nature. |
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 15, 2013 23:38:31 GMT -5
Face HHH tapped in the Chamber to Cena in '10 and Lesnar just recently. Punk tapped to Bryan as a face, at OtL '12, during a pin/tap finish. Which'd leave 'Tista as the only exception, really. Forgot about H tapping out to Cena. I personally don't count Punk tapping out since he did it after he had already won but I can see the point you're making. Even then, none of those guys tapped out when they were THE GUY (face-wise) for WWE. In fairness to my point, there really hasn't been another THE GUY (face-wise) since the 'E put all its faith in Cena 7 years ago. I get that there's litte-to-no precedence for the top draw tapping in pretty the history of the WWE/WWF/WWWF, but in an age where other upper-tier acts can now submit with no lasting impact to their character, I'm surprised it hasn't been a properly hyped aspect of the Cena persona. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 15, 2013 23:43:41 GMT -5
Forgot about H tapping out to Cena. I personally don't count Punk tapping out since he did it after he had already won but I can see the point you're making. Even then, none of those guys tapped out when they were THE GUY (face-wise) for WWE. In fairness to my point, there really hasn't been another THE GUY (face-wise) since the 'E put all its faith in Cena 7 years ago. I get that there's litte-to-no precedence for the top draw tapping in pretty the history of the WWE/WWF/WWWF, but in an age where other upper-tier acts can now submit with no lasting impact to their character, I'm surprised it hasn't been a properly hyped aspect of the Cena persona. I see your point. It wouldn't kill the company to make him look more vulnerable every now and again. |
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