Justice League Movie - Great News

[Jiren]

Aquaman could get away with being introduced in the JL movie and showing how much of a badass he is because as much as I love the guy his solo movie will flop because of the pop culture joke he is.

the rest could do a solo movie though

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 18:50:32 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Aquaman could get away with being introduced in the JL movie and showing how much of a badass he is because as much as I love the guy his solo movie will flop because of the pop culture joke he is.

the rest could do a solo movie though

Hmm.....true......

Maybe have him do over the top badass things so people finally get the idea that he is awesome.

[Jiren]

Like his Shark attack in Origins, That made Green Lantern eat his words

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 17:18:41 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Mar 4, 2013 17:01:40 GMT -5 @knapp said:

And if they did the buildup, and people complained that they were just copying how the Avengers did it. What then?

To be honest, Avengers needed the buildup because - to mainstream people - who the bleep were these folks? Iron Man? Thor? Hawkeye and Black Widow? Their stories and origins and even existances were unknown to mainstream moviegoers.

Comic nerds know them inside and out, sure. But I'll bet you more moviegoers learned who Iron Man was from the movies than from the comics.

Marvel's Avengers bunch largely needed the buildup.
DC's JLA largely does not.

Mainstream folks know the standard superheroes: thanks to cartoons and common lore from youth, Spider-Man and Hulk are easies. Maybe the X-Men too.

But from DC? Superman, Batman, probably Wonder Woman, Aquaman, GL had his movie, maybe Flash....

If anything, let the big DC team movie spawn individual movies.

You are GROSSLY overestimating the mainstream public, mate.

They may know that names of the DC characters, but they often know jack all about them. For example, when Jason Todd was killed as Robin the vast majority of the mainstream public at the time thought it was Dick Grayson that was killed off. Basically they didn't know that by that point that there was 3 Robins.

And Green Lantern? Oh dear lord that is a colossal clusterf*** right there. I mean just how many people bitched at the Green Lantern movie for using Hal Jordan, and not because he was Hal Jordan, but because they "used a white Green Lantern"? In other words, to the mainstream public, the only Green Lantern there is is John Stewart.

And the Flash? Are you f***ing kidding me? I'm pretty damned sure the mainstream public can't tell any of the Flashes apart from one another.

Trust me, man, they NEED build up films. If anything they need them more than Marvel did, because sooooooo many of DC's premier heroes are legacy characters, meaning they pass the name down over time.

Wait, how did legacy heroes come into the mix? And why do moviegoers need to know the levels of legacy hero families before getting into a JLA movie? It's more the role of the more meticulous (comics) fans to know that stuff going into it...

Give them a Flash running around in a JLA movie, then later go into the fact that he's got a sidekick and there was an old guy who preceded him......and so on and so forth. You don't need to be able to i.d. Barry from Wally from Jay to Bart in order to get a Flash being in the JLA: because it's only going to be one of them.

And let's face it, a DC movieverse is not going to be the same as the comics. Who knows if they'll even make certain people legacy heroes. And heck, the New 52 view of things has moreorless eliminated the legacy aspect from DC.

Work with the basics that people know, and build up from there.

Marvel established a rule of thumb that fans think needs to be duplicated in all instances. But that's just not the case. People know basics about the main DC heroes, and several others. Gather them all up, give them that big team showcase, and then focus on them in their own worlds from there. It can be done that way, too.

With respect......Iron Man needed to be introduced to a mainstream audience the way he was. That totally sounds weird in 2013, but it's true. The Avengers were very much not a billion dollar empire in 2007 or so, and certain members needed that exposure. Cap I think was the only one "known" to regular movie fans and people outside comics. Otherwise, the idea of "a movie of Marvel heroes teaming up" would've resulted in a Spidey and Hulk and Captain America and Wolverine team; which, thanks to movie rights, can't happen for a long time, if ever.

[Jiren]

Batman, Supes & Aquaman Don't need singular movies as they're known by pretty much everyone (Aquaman a different reason)

But give WW & Flash a Singular, Give GL either a reboot or a DAMN GOOD sequel that washes the stink of the first away (I want Kyle dammit).

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 18:57:32 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Mar 4, 2013 17:18:41 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

You are GROSSLY overestimating the mainstream public, mate.

They may know that names of the DC characters, but they often know jack all about them. For example, when Jason Todd was killed as Robin the vast majority of the mainstream public at the time thought it was Dick Grayson that was killed off. Basically they didn't know that by that point that there was 3 Robins.

And Green Lantern? Oh dear lord that is a colossal clusterf*** right there. I mean just how many people bitched at the Green Lantern movie for using Hal Jordan, and not because he was Hal Jordan, but because they "used a white Green Lantern"? In other words, to the mainstream public, the only Green Lantern there is is John Stewart.

And the Flash? Are you f***ing kidding me? I'm pretty damned sure the mainstream public can't tell any of the Flashes apart from one another.

Trust me, man, they NEED build up films. If anything they need them more than Marvel did, because sooooooo many of DC's premier heroes are legacy characters, meaning they pass the name down over time.

Wait, how did legacy heroes come into the mix? And why do moviegoers need to know the levels of legacy hero families before getting into a JLA movie? It's more the role of the more meticulous (comics) fans to know that stuff going into it...

Give them a Flash running around in a JLA movie, then later go into the fact that he's got a sidekick and there was an old guy who preceded him......and so on and so forth. You don't need to be able to i.d. Barry from Wally from Jay to Bart in order to get a Flash being in the JLA: because it's only going to be one of them.

And let's face it, a DC movieverse is not going to be the same as the comics. Who knows if they'll even make certain people legacy heroes. And heck, the New 52 view of things has moreorless eliminated the legacy aspect from DC.

Work with the basics that people know, and build up from there.

Marvel established a rule of thumb that fans think needs to be duplicated in all instances. But that's just not the case. People know basics about the main DC heroes, and several others. Gather them all up, give them that big team showcase, and then focus on them in their own worlds from there. It can be done that way, too.

With respect......Iron Man needed to be introduced to a mainstream audience the way he was. That totally sounds weird in 2013, but it's true. The Avengers were very much not a billion dollar empire in 2007 or so, and certain members needed that exposure. Cap I think was the only one "known" to regular movie fans and people outside comics. Otherwise, the idea of "a movie of Marvel heroes teaming up" would've resulted in a Spidey and Hulk and Captain America and Wolverine team; which, thanks to movie rights, can't happen for a long time, if ever.

*sigh* You aren't getting what I am trying to say.

We have at least 3 Flashes. We now have 5 Green Lanterns. What I'm trying to say is they have to establish which ones of the respective monikers they want to use.

You just can't plainly use a Flash or a Green Lantern. Wally West is no where near the same character as Barry or Bart. And Guy, Kyle, Hal, John, and Simon are all vaaaaaaaastly different characters.

They have to pick one of each, and have to establish them as characters to the movie going audience. You just can't throw any of the Flashes or GLs, save for maybe Hal, into the JL film and call it a day.

That's what I'm trying to say. That is why I even brought up legacy characters to begin with.

[Red Impact]

I got the point you're trying to make, I'm just saying you're looking at lead ins for the wrong reasons. The legacy nature doesn't matter. Let's talk about the Flash. If the unlikely situation comes to pass that they use Wally West instead of Barry Allen as The Flash in a live action movie, they'll either mention it in a throwaway line of dialogue or, more likely, they'll do the same thing that the DCAU did and completely ignore that Barry Allen existed. Barry Allen was never mentioned in the DCAU, they just went on with Wally West as the Flash and never even hinted that there were any other speedsters until the last season of Justice League Unlimited, and even then it was just background artwork.

Same thing would happen regardless of what Green Lantern they used as well, he'll come in as Green Lantern, not "Guy Gardner, the second Green Lantern". Which version they use of the characters is just going to be irrelevant, what matters is that the people know who they are, not that they know where they come from.

Yes, you can just use Flash or Green Lantern. They already did.

If they do them to legitimize Aquaman and take another crack at Green Lantern, it'd be different. But there being more than Flash in comics will matter as much to the movies as the fact that there was more than one form of Hulk did to the Avengers movie.

[Jiren]

Mar 4, 2013 19:05:42 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Mar 4, 2013 18:57:32 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Wait, how did legacy heroes come into the mix? And why do moviegoers need to know the levels of legacy hero families before getting into a JLA movie? It's more the role of the more meticulous (comics) fans to know that stuff going into it...

Give them a Flash running around in a JLA movie, then later go into the fact that he's got a sidekick and there was an old guy who preceded him......and so on and so forth. You don't need to be able to i.d. Barry from Wally from Jay to Bart in order to get a Flash being in the JLA: because it's only going to be one of them.

And let's face it, a DC movieverse is not going to be the same as the comics. Who knows if they'll even make certain people legacy heroes. And heck, the New 52 view of things has moreorless eliminated the legacy aspect from DC.

Work with the basics that people know, and build up from there.

Marvel established a rule of thumb that fans think needs to be duplicated in all instances. But that's just not the case. People know basics about the main DC heroes, and several others. Gather them all up, give them that big team showcase, and then focus on them in their own worlds from there. It can be done that way, too.

With respect......Iron Man needed to be introduced to a mainstream audience the way he was. That totally sounds weird in 2013, but it's true. The Avengers were very much not a billion dollar empire in 2007 or so, and certain members needed that exposure. Cap I think was the only one "known" to regular movie fans and people outside comics. Otherwise, the idea of "a movie of Marvel heroes teaming up" would've resulted in a Spidey and Hulk and Captain America and Wolverine team; which, thanks to movie rights, can't happen for a long time, if ever.

*sigh* You aren't getting what I am trying to say.

We have at least 3 Flashes. We now have 5 Green Lanterns. What I'm trying to say is they have to establish which ones of the respective monikers they want to use.

You just can't plainly use a Flash or a Green Lantern. Wally West is no where near the same character as Barry or Bart. And Guy, Kyle, Hal, John, and Simon are all vaaaaaaaastly different characters.

They have to pick one of each, and have to establish them as characters to the movie going audience. You just can't throw any of the Flashes or GLs, save for maybe Hal, into the JL film and call it a day.

That's what I'm trying to say. That is why I even brought up legacy characters to begin with.

It's a good point

How many think John Stewart is THE Green Lantern thank to JL/JLU, Hal is in that cartoon for around 20 seconds.

Or now thanks to the Media that Green Lantern is Gay

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 19:07:06 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

I got the point you're trying to make, I'm just saying you're looking at lead ins for the wrong reasons. The legacy nature doesn't matter. Let's talk about the Flash. If the unlikely situation comes to pass that they use Wally West instead of Barry Allen as The Flash in a live action movie, they'll either mention it in a throwaway line of dialogue or, more likely, they'll do the same thing that the DCAU did and completely ignore that Barry Allen existed. Barry Allen was never mentioned in the DCAU, they just went on with Wally West as the Flash and never even hinted that there were any other speedsters until the last season of Justice League Unlimited, and even then it was just background artwork.

Same thing would happen regardless of what Green Lantern they used as well, he'll come in as Green Lantern, not "Guy Gardner, the second Green Lantern". Which version they use of the characters is just going to be irrelevant, what matters is that the people know who they are, not that they know where they come from.

Yes, you can just use Flash or Green Lantern. They already did.

If they do them to legitimize Aquaman and take another crack at Green Lantern, it'd be different. But there being more than Flash in comics will matter as much to the movies as the fact that there was more than one form of Hulk did to the Avengers movie.

They didn't just use Green Lantern, if you are referring to the DCAU. They first established the GLs in the DCAU with Kyle showing up in Superman. THEN they went on to John in the JL cartoon, and even then still had Kyle pop up.

As for Flash they still had to build his character up.

[Jiren]

Hell for green Lantern do a sequel that introduces Kyle, Guy & John.

Just do Superman's origin for Kyle rather than Twilight/Parallax

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 19:10:03 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Mar 4, 2013 19:05:42 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

*sigh* You aren't getting what I am trying to say.

We have at least 3 Flashes. We now have 5 Green Lanterns. What I'm trying to say is they have to establish which ones of the respective monikers they want to use.

You just can't plainly use a Flash or a Green Lantern. Wally West is no where near the same character as Barry or Bart. And Guy, Kyle, Hal, John, and Simon are all vaaaaaaaastly different characters.

They have to pick one of each, and have to establish them as characters to the movie going audience. You just can't throw any of the Flashes or GLs, save for maybe Hal, into the JL film and call it a day.

That's what I'm trying to say. That is why I even brought up legacy characters to begin with.

It's a good point

How many think John Stewart is THE Green Lantern thank to JL/JLU, Hal is in that cartoon for around 20 seconds.

Or now thanks to the Media that Green Lantern is Gay

Lots of people thought John was the main GL, which is why they got pissed at Hal being the film GL used.

And you bring up another thing, there is also the very first Flash and GL who aren't really anything like what people usually think of when they hear the Flash or Green Lantern.

[Red Impact]

The vast majority of movies do just fine establishing a character's personality over the course of a movie, without needing another movie to introduce them. Superhero movies aren't any different. You can establish Flash's character throughout the course of a movie pretty easily.

In DCAU, they really just glossed over it, and the entire point of the episode he was introduced in was just "he's really, really fast!" You didn't need to know about Jay Garrick. They didn't use Jay Garrick. He's not relevant to the story.

John Stewart had no introduction. Kyle was established as the GL of earth in the Superman cartoon, and wasn't mentioned until a season or two into JL.

You're making this way harder than it really is. The Avengers route isn't the only possible way to do it,and in the case of Justice League, may not even be the most productive.

[Jiren]

Origins could be used as a template as that introduces them to each other pretty well.

It just needs some changes (Villain, Campness).

Hell even the JL cartoon did it well for 60 mins, Give it 2 - 2:30 hours then that'll be better.

Use a villain that doesn't need TOO much buildup (Manhunters?).

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 19:21:46 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

The vast majority of movies do just fine establishing a character's personality over the course of a movie, without needing another movie to introduce them. Superhero movies aren't any different. You can establish Flash's character throughout the course of a movie pretty easily.

In DCAU, they really just glossed over it, and the entire point of the episode he was introduced in was just "he's really, really fast!" You didn't need to know about Jay Garrick. They didn't use Jay Garrick. He's not relevant to the story.

John Stewart had no introduction. Kyle was established as the GL of earth in the Superman cartoon, and wasn't mentioned until a season or two into JL.

You're making this way harder than it really is. The Avengers route isn't the only possible way to do it,and in the case of Justice League, may not even be the most productive.

So you want them to try and establish Flash's character over the course of a 2 to 2.5 hour long film, while he also has to share the spotlight with at least 5 other main characters and however many villains they have in the film too(remember, they will have to build up the villain during the film as well)?

Well, ok.

That to me just screams of trying to cram too much into a film. Avengers worked really well because they spent almost none of the film's length establishing the characters. They only further fleshed out what was established over the previous MCU films. Save for Hawkeye, who, while he appeared in Thor, didn't really do anything in Thor.

I mean maybe they could do a Flash spinoff after Justice League to actually establish his character, but what would be a waste, imo.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

Mar 4, 2013 19:26:34 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Origins could be used as a template as that introduces them to each other pretty well.

It just needs some changes (Villain, Campness).

Hell even the JL cartoon did it well for 60 mins, Give it 2 - 2:30 hours then that'll be better.

Use a villain that doesn't need TOO much buildup (Manhunters?).

Manhunters would be good. Would also be a nice way of introducing any new GL should they not reuse Hal.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 19:05:42 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

Mar 4, 2013 18:57:32 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Wait, how did legacy heroes come into the mix? And why do moviegoers need to know the levels of legacy hero families before getting into a JLA movie? It's more the role of the more meticulous (comics) fans to know that stuff going into it...

Give them a Flash running around in a JLA movie, then later go into the fact that he's got a sidekick and there was an old guy who preceded him......and so on and so forth. You don't need to be able to i.d. Barry from Wally from Jay to Bart in order to get a Flash being in the JLA: because it's only going to be one of them.

And let's face it, a DC movieverse is not going to be the same as the comics. Who knows if they'll even make certain people legacy heroes. And heck, the New 52 view of things has moreorless eliminated the legacy aspect from DC.

Work with the basics that people know, and build up from there.

Marvel established a rule of thumb that fans think needs to be duplicated in all instances. But that's just not the case. People know basics about the main DC heroes, and several others. Gather them all up, give them that big team showcase, and then focus on them in their own worlds from there. It can be done that way, too.

With respect......Iron Man needed to be introduced to a mainstream audience the way he was. That totally sounds weird in 2013, but it's true. The Avengers were very much not a billion dollar empire in 2007 or so, and certain members needed that exposure. Cap I think was the only one "known" to regular movie fans and people outside comics. Otherwise, the idea of "a movie of Marvel heroes teaming up" would've resulted in a Spidey and Hulk and Captain America and Wolverine team; which, thanks to movie rights, can't happen for a long time, if ever.

*sigh* You aren't getting what I am trying to say.

We have at least 3 Flashes. We now have 5 Green Lanterns. What I'm trying to say is they have to establish which ones of the respective monikers they want to use.

You just can't plainly use a Flash or a Green Lantern. Wally West is no where near the same character as Barry or Bart. And Guy, Kyle, Hal, John, and Simon are all vaaaaaaaastly different characters.

They have to pick one of each, and have to establish them as characters to the movie going audience. You just can't throw any of the Flashes or GLs, save for maybe Hal, into the JL film and call it a day.

That's what I'm trying to say. That is why I even brought up legacy characters to begin with.

..........ok, I'm kinda getting it. To people, this guy is GL/Flash/Robin; to others, that other guy is.

But I think you can get past that and not corrupt or ruin the JLA movie setting. It happens in other movies (like, weren't they just introducing new dudes into the Fast/Furious franchise and shuffling Vin Diesel in and out?) and people tend to get it.

The only legacy that'd be an issue is GL - will it be Hal, or John? A lot of kids know John better than Hal, thanks to the JL cartoon, and I think considering how the Ryan Reynolds movie went (fun fact: the recent GL cartoon was cancelled due to low merchandise sales, because the GL movie toys killed retailer interest in anymore GL toys) they could replace him with John, or someone else. But the nature of GL - there's a giant army of them, and that's a known thing now - makes that easier, IMO.

And speaking of the JL cartoon.....we went 2 years without knowing who the Flash was. Seriously. It was Wally, but the whole time it was never known to the fans. And honestly, it didn't matter. "Guy in red suit running" - with a slightly goofy attitude - worked just fine. And why? Because it was well written and well acted all around.

A well written and well acted JLA movie will please everyone. It worked for Batman, it does when Superman gets it right....it can work here too.

[Red Impact]

Mar 4, 2013 19:29:42 GMT -5 Koda, Master Crunchyroller said:

So you want them to try and establish Flash's character over the course of a 2 to 2.5 hour long film, while he also has to share the spotlight with at least 5 other main characters and however many villains they have in the film too(remember, they will have to build up the villain during the film as well)?

Well, ok.

That to me just screams of trying to cram too much into a film. Avengers worked really well because they spent almost none of the film's length establishing the characters. They only further fleshed out what was established over the previous MCU films. Save for Hawkeye, who, while he appeared in Thor, didn't really do anything in Thor.

I mean maybe they could do a Flash spinoff after Justice League to actually establish his character, but what would be a waste, imo.

You're not making a gripping drama with complex, conflicted characters, you're making a super hero action movie. As long as people can recognize them, you don't have to do that much to establish it. Flash's origin doesn't take long to tell, and you can establish his character just fine through the dialogue of the movie.

Again, Avengers was just different. Members of the Avengers weren't nearly as well known as the members of the Justice League are. You sort of have to establish them just so people know who this long haired dude with a goofy accent is. When fans know who the characters are already, you don't need that much. And trying to rely on an Aquaman or Flash movie to sell a Justice League movie would probably be a disaster.

[Jiren]

- Batman & Superman - Everyone knows them, so just have them appear (Maybe reference their histories)
- Flash - Have him talk about his accident and make use of his CSI knowledge (And mention his job)
- Aquaman - Have him appear like in Origins and have someone make fun of him and he pulls off a badass feat
- WW - Start her off on Themyscira and let us see it and the Amazons also have her leave to help
- GL - Tie him in with the Manhunters, Have them invade Earth due to a glitch or Even Krona's reprograming (Add him as the BIG bad maybe). He/We get told of them by the Guardians and he warns Earth/JL. Throw some character as he does his thing (John = Architect/Marine, Kyle = Artist).

Also maybe show the GL corps fighting manhunters in other countries in news reports