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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 20, 2013 1:31:50 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to be pointing to specific things when it comes to what was wrong with WWF 1995. Diesel's boring title run, Bret Hart languishing in the midcard, Mabel and Tanaka in the main event, bad gimmicks, no real star power, etc.
What it really comes down to was that Vince and company were completely out of touch at the time with the wrestling fanbase, and had no idea what was cool in 1995. They had Kevin Nash, one of the most comedic guys in the business, playing a never-say-die babyface with no personality. They had Bret Hart, one of the greatest technical wrestlers in the business feuding with a pirate over a jacket. They had good talents like Hakushi and Chris Candido playing cartoon caricatures (calling them cartoon characters would be an insult to the great cartoons actually running during this time). It was really Vince thinking what worked in the 80s would work in the 90s, hence why Mabel would get a main event run simply because of his size. If Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy could draw house show attendance in the 80s, why wouldn't Diesel vs. Mabel not pop a huge Summerslam buyrate? Seriously, that's the logic that actually went into Summerslam that year.
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hitch
Don Corleone
Hitch knot
Posts: 1,696
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Post by hitch on Mar 20, 2013 5:29:20 GMT -5
I think the product became more childish after the Hulkamania era. I don't think 1984-93, although it was generally a young persons product, was childish. It was presented as a 'serious' thing. The results mattered, the victories mattered, they'd do mature plots and storylines. Larger than life rather than cartoony. After that Vince I think thought he'd recreate the audience again by going cartoon-like. You'd have Superstars opening with Vince saying 'And we'll ask...why Santa...why?' and other nonsense like that. I think it's a disservice to say they didn't change from the cartoony-80s era, because it never was. It was family friendly but the cartoon nonsense started in the mid 1990s. WCW wasnt any better with the dungeon of doom and all, though they slowly went back to a more realistic style once nitro came along. Sadly, it wasnt until late 96 that the wwf started catching up. i think that's Hogan's fault. Again being under the misguided view that because kids liked him in the 80s, they had to become cartoony to get the kids back liking him in WCW. But there's a difference between appealing to children and a young audience and pandering to them. I know this won't be popular but I think Cena appeals to kids and were we in a different era he'd be crazy over.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Mar 20, 2013 11:51:01 GMT -5
The 1995 roster was not bad. It had some names that will become big stars. The year also had a few great wrestlers. The problem with the year was that all the top stars were faces. Diesel was a face for the whole year (he attacked Bret Hart but remain a face until 1996 when he turn on HBK). Besides Bulldog the WWF did not turn anyone else heel. I think if Razor Ramon turned heel and feud with Diesel for the title, then the year would not be that bad. Yokozuna, Sid, Owen Hart, Jeff Jarrett and later Bulldog were the only top heels. HBK, Diesel, Undertaker, Bret Hart, Luger and Ramon were faces. The face side had a lot more star power. That is why the faces always won.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 20, 2013 14:03:09 GMT -5
Misuse of a talented roster. WWF trying to shoehorn pushes that were doomed. Mabel as KOTR tells you all you need to know.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 23:13:39 GMT -5
Watch King of the Ring '95. It'll answer all your questions. 3 hours built around Mabel and Savio Vega. Another 36 straight for Sir Mo's coronation speech. I've never seen this show, but reading "3 hours build around Mabel and Savio" made me shudder like JR during a Matt Hardy promo.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 20, 2013 23:44:13 GMT -5
The sad thing for me about KOTR 1995 is that growing up one of my favorite PPVs to rent from Blockbuster was KOTR 93. It seemed like the most special thing because I'd see the ad for the show on WM IX but my parents didn't order it for me. I missed on 1994, too, but I don't think the video store had it. 1995 comes along and finally we order KOTR and I was so excited. Then after it was over I had it on tape. And I'd watch it over and over again hoping it would become good. There's stuff I like in it but no way could I say it's good.
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Post by aaronslip on Mar 22, 2013 2:39:51 GMT -5
Everyone says 95 was awful, but in an era where there were 5 PPV's a year: Summerslam 95 was the best PPV they had ever done at that point, in terms of in ring quality.
Survivor Series 95 was pretty great also.
As a kid, I have fond memories of watching Bret, Owen, Shawn, Diesel, Razor, Undertaker, Bulldog etc.
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Post by mauled on Mar 22, 2013 7:55:29 GMT -5
The worst thing was the Clique. They were really tight with Vince and made sure they buried anyone starting to get over, so anything fresh or exciting was doomed from the start and alienated pretty much everyone else in the WWF at the time.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 22, 2013 9:37:00 GMT -5
The worst thing was the Clique. They were really tight with Vince and made sure they buried anyone starting to get over, so anything fresh or exciting was doomed from the start and alienated pretty much everyone else in the WWF at the time. Honestly, I kinda wish the Clique had pushed themselves more. Razor Ramon should have been a regular in the World Title picture, not the IC level, 123 Kid was also kind of a joke when he was one of the best guys on the roster, they could have used him like Rey Mysterio, a giant killer. I agree with the bad booking of a great roster, it keeps coming up, but look at the brackets for KOTR 1995, you had HBK, Taker, Lex Luger, Razor, Jeff Jarrett and Yokozuna, all names or talents that would have seemed big winners or great wrestlers. Savio Vega who wasn't even in the tournament got to the final against Mabel. Owen and Davey Boy had a draw in the first round and were kicked out and not even on the card! Imagine this 8 as the quarter finals, using only people already in the tournament: HBK, Undertaker, Jeff Jarrett, Yokozuna, Lex Luger, Davey Boy Smith, Razor Ramon, Owen Hart. In 1995, that's 2 World Champions, at least half could be called main eventers, and none were doing anything else at the time! How do you screw that up? Edit: Just saw Razor had a real injury, ok, throw the Roadie back into the mix, have him face JJ create some tension between them when he won't throw the match, or make them even more hated by having him go through with it!
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