How come Luchadores don't make the jump?

[SOR]

I'm not a huge Lucha fan as a matter of fact I only know the super popular Luchadores or the guys that used to appear in WWF/WCW/ECW/TNA etc.

My question is how come the Luchadores don't often try and make it in the United States? I don't mean the indies I mean WWE/TNA etc. I ask this question because Magno was on TNA recently and the crowd seemed into him. I'm not sure if he's a big Lucha guy but I do know there's some incredibly talented Luchadores in Mexico. Of course I'm aware of Del Rio, Sin Cara etc but it doesn't seem as if these Luchadore guys ever receive try outs or job matches or anything like that and it strikes me as odd.

So why don't they make the jump? Are they making quality money in Mexico? Is it because they work the right and everyone else works the left? What's the deal?

[Deleted]

I imagine that many luchadores want to do so but haven't due to a lack of interest from WWE and issues concerning work visas, money, moving, language barriers, etc.

The last I've heard, wrestling is still insanely popular and profitable in Mexico, so I imagine many luchadores make good money.

There might be also a prevailing feeling of betrayal; I don't know how much of it was an exaggeration but Del Rio essentially made it sound like that he's done in Mexico. He unmasked, has a new gimmick, and it looks like he wouldn't be welcomed back if he returned, though I can't say I know the situation well. You figure also that gimmicks are owned by wrestling companies, so it's not like Sin Cara could go back and say "Ok, I'm Mistico again! Time to push me!"

[kingoftheindies]

Apr 16, 2013 11:20:35 GMT -5 @irontyger said:

I imagine that many luchadores want to do so but haven't due to a lack of interest from WWE and issues concerning work visas, money, moving, language barriers, etc.

The last I've heard, wrestling is still insanely popular and profitable in Mexico, so I imagine many luchadores make good money.

There might be also a prevailing feeling of betrayal; I don't know how much of it was an exaggeration but Del Rio essentially made it sound like that he's done in Mexico. He unmasked, has a new gimmick, and it looks like he wouldn't be welcomed back if he returned, though I can't say I know the situation well. You figure also that gimmicks are owned by wrestling companies, so it's not like Sin Cara could go back and say "Ok, I'm Mistico again! Time to push me!"

they find unmasking outside of Mexico a bit of an issue, and with Del Rio, they do not like how he just took his mask off. Back when Mysterio lost his mask in WCW, he tried to wrestle a match with his mask and the fans booed him out of the building.

As for the reason many don't make the jump. There's a couple reasons. The biggest of which is the language barrier. In the past you had more American wrestlers getting breaks down in Puerto Rico or Mexico and thus learnt how to speak Spanish, but nowadays you aren't seeing is many people know Spanish so the language barrier is tough (and English isn't exactly easy to learn)

Another issue is you work the opposite side of somebody's body in lucha libre than you do in regular style so it leads to a lot of issues between wrestlers when bumping for each other. Combine that with how different lucha matches are structured together and guys from the states really have trouble with it.

Add in that a lot of American promoters don't really understand how much a mask means to luchadores, and to a lot of them, being asked to take the mask is seen as insulting.

Legal issues also come into effect. Hector Garza was actually in line to get a huge push in TNA a few years ago and actually feud with Jeff Jarrett for the World title, but he got deported cause he had steroids that were legal in Mexico but illegal in the US.

[Steveweiser]

Look how Mistico has struggled in the United States. This was just a few years after he set record gates in Mexico, and no-one had a year like he did until Tanahashi in the past two. Says all you need to know really.

[________ has left the building]

Securing work visas isn't easy, language barriers, and learning a new style of wrestling is tougher than most people think.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

What are you talking about,Luchadores jump all the time.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

There's also the risk of a lucha star losing the gimmick that made them money in Mexico if they jump, I mean, La Parka and Psicosis were both replaced and had to adopt new names when they returned from WCW as the companies they worked for put new guys in their costumes and kept going. If they fail in North America, they have no gimmick to fall back on and will have to start from scratch.

[NOwave]

All of these things apply, but the biggest is simply the mask. One of the few things I ever agreed with Vince Russo on was that American fans really need to see a wrestler's face to get behind them. (or dislike them) Many of the luchadors are reluctant to unmask because they feel it hurts their chances of working in Mexico again, and they may be right about that.

Basically, if you can't talk on the mic for whatever reason, including because you don't know the language, and you can't use facial expression to communicate with the fans because you are wearing a mask, it's going to be very difficult to get over in the U.S.

The great masked tag teams of the territory era(the Assassins, the Interns, the Nightmares, etc) all had unmasked managers to do the talking for them because it's so hard to tell a story via TV if the audience can't see your face.

[froggyfrog]

Apr 16, 2013 16:14:59 GMT -5 NOwave said:

All of these things apply, but the biggest is simply the mask. One of the few things I ever agreed with Vince Russo on was that American fans really need to see a wrestler's face to get behind them. (or dislike them) Many of the luchadors are reluctant to unmask because they feel it hurts their chances of working in Mexico again, and they may be right about that.

Basically, if you can't talk on the mic for whatever reason, including because you don't know the language, and you can't use facial expression to communicate with the fans because you are wearing a mask, it's going to be very difficult to get over in the U.S.

The great masked tag teams of the territory era(the Assassins, the Interns, the Nightmares, etc) all had unmasked managers to do the talking for them because it's so hard to tell a story via TV if the audience can't see your face.

The Interns?

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Apr 16, 2013 16:14:59 GMT -5 NOwave said:

All of these things apply, but the biggest is simply the mask. One of the few things I ever agreed with Vince Russo on was that American fans really need to see a wrestler's face to get behind them. (or dislike them) Many of the luchadors are reluctant to unmask because they feel it hurts their chances of working in Mexico again, and they may be right about that.

Basically, if you can't talk on the mic for whatever reason, including because you don't know the language, and you can't use facial expression to communicate with the fans because you are wearing a mask, it's going to be very difficult to get over in the U.S.

The great masked tag teams of the territory era(the Assassins, the Interns, the Nightmares, etc) all had unmasked managers to do the talking for them because it's so hard to tell a story via TV if the audience can't see your face.

That attitude is nonsense, the masked cruisers in WCW had no problem getting over based on their look, mannerisms and ringwork, guys like Psicosis, Rey Misterio, Juventud, La Parka were all over. It's not their fault WCW failed to capitalise during the period they were hot, turned them into a sideshow and started unmasking guys that anyone with half a brain would realise need their masks, guys like Rey who looked like a teenage girl or Psicosis who looked like a pumpkin.

Vince Russo was a very important member of the WWF booking team in the era where they created Kane, a fully masked character who got over based on his mannerisms and storylines, despite being played by a guy who would never have gotten over had they showed his face because of his previous gimmicks. I defend Russo more than most, but there is no excuse for the way he treated the Luchadores, he knew full well that people could get over with their faces covered, he just didn't have any respect for international stars, he decided american fans didn't like them and made up a justification for it after the fact.

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

Like many have said visas, language barriers, new styles. Del Rio spent a large amount of time in development learning the WWE style while Sin Cara spent none and look the vast difference. The whole unmasking has a lot to do with that as well WWE had a luchador unmasked him and let him go a week later that wouldn't really fly in Mexico because once you lose your mask either you have to do a whole new gimmick or be unmasked. Not only that but the lucha is still hugely popular and legends are highly regarded I bet a casual fan may not know who El Santo is or that Rey Misterio's uncle is a great wrestler.

[SOR]

Apr 16, 2013 17:53:02 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Apr 16, 2013 16:14:59 GMT -5 NOwave said:

All of these things apply, but the biggest is simply the mask. One of the few things I ever agreed with Vince Russo on was that American fans really need to see a wrestler's face to get behind them. (or dislike them) Many of the luchadors are reluctant to unmask because they feel it hurts their chances of working in Mexico again, and they may be right about that.

Basically, if you can't talk on the mic for whatever reason, including because you don't know the language, and you can't use facial expression to communicate with the fans because you are wearing a mask, it's going to be very difficult to get over in the U.S.

The great masked tag teams of the territory era(the Assassins, the Interns, the Nightmares, etc) all had unmasked managers to do the talking for them because it's so hard to tell a story via TV if the audience can't see your face.

That attitude is nonsense, the masked cruisers in WCW had no problem getting over based on their look, mannerisms and ringwork, guys like Psicosis, Rey Misterio, Juventud, La Parka were all over. It's not their fault WCW failed to capitalise during the period they were hot, turned them into a sideshow and started unmasking guys that anyone with half a brain would realise need their masks, guys like Rey who looked like a teenage girl or Psicosis who looked like a pumpkin.

Vince Russo was a very important member of the WWF booking team in the era where they created Kane, a fully masked character who got over based on his mannerisms and storylines, despite being played by a guy who would never have gotten over had they showed his face because of his previous gimmicks. I defend Russo more than most, but there is no excuse for the way he treated the Luchadores, he knew full well that people could get over with their faces covered, he just didn't have any respect for international stars, he decided american fans didn't like them and made up a justification for it after the fact.

I may be forgetting someone here but did Russo ever make anyone unmask? I can't remember if he did but I imagine it could of been something done quickly on Nitro/PPV and quickly forgotten.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Apr 16, 2013 20:26:35 GMT -5 SOR said:

I may be forgetting someone here but did Russo ever make anyone unmask? I can't remember if he did but I imagine it could of been something done quickly on Nitro/PPV and quickly forgotten.

He didn't, they were all victims of the previous regime, but he did his best to humiliate La Parka with the horrendous dub gimmick and guys like Villano v and the unmasked luchadores by putting them in things like Piñata on a pole matches then having Dr. Death squash them to help get Oklahoma over. He had no respect for luchadores and his attempts at justifying the attitude he came into WCW with just don't hold up to scrutiny,

[Deleted]

I know I'm basing it on what I read in the Death Of WCW, but a lot of them enjoyed wrestling (and the pay) and used their off days to secure dates in Mexico. At a certain point in WCW's existence, the luchadores were forbidden to do that.

If you sign a contract with WWE or TNA, I would imagine there would be some issues with working for another promotion, even if it isn't considered a "rival". You're contracted to work for the big company only.