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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on May 8, 2013 18:55:49 GMT -5
While what he said surely isn't as horrifying as what some others have done, but let's go ahead and add Jay Briscoe to this list of horrible people. He's said some pretty ignorant shit and it's really sad, but I wouldn't call him a scumbag. Asshole? Definitely.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on May 8, 2013 19:44:50 GMT -5
I'd say Puder deserved it for attacking Kurt Angle. When you go into a wrestling match and try to break someone's arm, then you deserve what you get. Well, they DID wait till all the Tough Enough guys were tired from their training to surprise them with a shoot fight against an Olympic gold medalist. I don't blame him for trying to win. And another Benoit thing, as much of a joke as it became, he did steal Kevin Sullivan's wife. I didn't know it was a shoot fight, I thought it was a regular match. Although maybe Puder should have realised that making a top WWE star look like a chump was gonna end up bad for him.
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Post by dlg3000 on May 8, 2013 20:28:03 GMT -5
Terry Funk? What did he do?
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 8, 2013 20:30:21 GMT -5
To all this I say they were both wrong. I think Feinstein being the adult still should have said no, regardless of how many times he was asked. However the whole "Teenagers are not responsible for any actions of their's short of murder" thing is a complete load of Bull. That kid had to have known enough to not repeatedly egg him into it. I think that the world has recently created the whole teenagers are stupid, reckless, impulsive children thing and really it gives teenagers an excuse an excuse to do stupid bull crap they shouldn't be allowed to get away with. And the fact that I (a 15-year-old) am saying this really takes away most room for argument otherwise. I truly believe teenagers need to be held to a much higher standard than they are today, but even still giving in to a request like that no matter what is incredibly stupid. No, the fact that you're 15 kind of makes your entire point about the perception of teenage sexual activity invalid. No disrespect, but you have no real frame of reference or hindsight on the subject or the topic. Being 15, you're in the thick of one of the most volatile, confusing, exciting, times of your life. As it should be. I assure you that within three years, you're going to look back at a lot or at least some of your opinions, actions and world views right now (no matter what they are) with a bit of a cringe. It's human nature and part of the fun of growing up. You may have your head on straight enough to know that any adult trying to establish that type of relationship with you is bad news, but you shouldn't condemn those who may not be so fortunate. I find that disrespectful even if it wasn't intended to be. Now I understand that you know a lot about Teenagers as you mentioned you were a high school teacher, and hell you were a teenager once but I find that the fact that I'm going through this time in my life right now a clarity you no longer have on this issue, I know for the most part how the mind works at this point, especially at the present era, and how that effects the thought process, and I'm not condemning those who don't have their heads on straight I'm saying that in the case of it being consensual they are at least partially responsible for their actions. Are the adults still at fault? Yes to just as big or more of an extent. but no matter what, and this is what I think you and a lot of people seem to forget, no disrespect to anyone, but you all seem to miss that despite everything in the works which alter the perspective and influence choices , at the end of the day that's what it is. It is still is a choice. You're a high school teacher, so let me use this as an example, if a student does something wrong, like say kicks the living crap out of another student, but did so under persuasion of an adult in their life, Does the adult get punished in that case? (Given at that point it is out of the school's jurisdiction) correct me if I'm wrong but the adult is punished? But does that mean the student is off the hook? I don't know what school you teach at but that doesn't fly where I'm from. And why do you think it is that the student would be punished in that scenario? The simple answer? Because they made a bad choice. It's the same thing, people always have a choice no matter the circumstance and as such should take responsibility, not falling back on copouts like "Hormones" or "Mental Illness". Do those things exist? Absolutely. But at the end of it all a choice is a choice regardless of the influence.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 9, 2013 2:53:28 GMT -5
While what he said surely isn't as horrifying as what some others have done, but let's go ahead and add Jay Briscoe to this list of horrible people. It's fine to have an opinion on Gay Marriage (it's certainly not going to be accepted by everyone) but what he said was downright insensitive. Threatening to shoot someone for daring to teach his kid that homosexuality is okay is completely terrible. Didn't Jay also make a comment awhile ago about tornados killing 'the F*gs' on twitter too?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 4:29:04 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I think New Jack is at the very least in the running. Total loon, and to think I was actually entertained by his antics at one point...
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,056
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 9, 2013 6:34:43 GMT -5
Well, they DID wait till all the Tough Enough guys were tired from their training to surprise them with a shoot fight against an Olympic gold medalist. I don't blame him for trying to win. And another Benoit thing, as much of a joke as it became, he did steal Kevin Sullivan's wife. I didn't know it was a shoot fight, I thought it was a regular match. Although maybe Puder should have realised that making a top WWE star look like a chump was gonna end up bad for him. Maybe, but he had a legit background, put him in a situation like that, and he's going to try to win, it's instinct. Especially if they've tried to handicap him beforehand. It was a stupid idea, any time you put a shoot on a wrestling program, what's the best that could happen?
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on May 9, 2013 11:59:16 GMT -5
While what he said surely isn't as horrifying as what some others have done, but let's go ahead and add Jay Briscoe to this list of horrible people. It's fine to have an opinion on Gay Marriage (it's certainly not going to be accepted by everyone) but what he said was downright insensitive. Threatening to shoot someone for daring to teach his kid that homosexuality is okay is completely terrible. Didn't Jay also make a comment awhile ago about tornados killing 'the F*gs' on twitter too? Not sure about that, though it wouldn't surprise me. I know after they legalized gay marriage in New York he tweeted, “Damn there's a lot of f**s out in New York today #WhatTheF**k". The face of ROH, everyone! EDIT: Apparently he's deleted his Facebook and Twitter account. I know he "apologized", but let's be honest, that apology was as meaningless as it gets.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 9, 2013 12:23:33 GMT -5
Well, they DID wait till all the Tough Enough guys were tired from their training to surprise them with a shoot fight against an Olympic gold medalist. I don't blame him for trying to win. And another Benoit thing, as much of a joke as it became, he did steal Kevin Sullivan's wife. I didn't know it was a shoot fight, I thought it was a regular match. Although maybe Puder should have realised that making a top WWE star look like a chump was gonna end up bad for him. Puder said in an interview a few years ago that they were told ahead of time that it would be a shoot fight and they should try to win. Said that after it was done he got some heat but also said management decided for it to be a shoot because they didn't think any of the TE competitors could compete with Kurt in a shoot/wrestling match. Of course, if you listen to Kurt, it was supposed to be an amateur wrestling style match and he got pissed because Puder put the key lock on him when they weren't doing an mma fight. As for the Chris Benoit/WCW stuff. The more stories I hear, the more I get the feeling that he (and to a much lesser extent Eddie and Malenko) weren't the great guys people made him out to be. This is more so for Benoit than the other 2, but they all seemed to be difficult at different times. There are rumors that they got Jerry Lynn somewhat blackballed from getting a legit shot in his younger days. They were somewhat bullies at times. Malenko injured Bret Hart doing a move Bret told him not to do because Malenko was too small to do it how he wanted to do it.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 9, 2013 20:37:47 GMT -5
It's fine to have an opinion on Gay Marriage (it's certainly not going to be accepted by everyone) but what he said was downright insensitive. Threatening to shoot someone for daring to teach his kid that homosexuality is okay is completely terrible. Didn't Jay also make a comment awhile ago about tornados killing 'the F*gs' on twitter too? Not sure about that, though it wouldn't surprise me. I know after they legalized gay marriage in New York he tweeted, “Damn there's a lot of f**s out in New York today #WhatTheF**k". The face of ROH, everyone! EDIT: Apparently he's deleted his Facebook and Twitter account. I know he "apologized", but let's be honest, that apology was as meaningless as it gets. Well you have to be honest, most public apologies are fake. They are just forced on the person and we all know what they actually think. Jay is an obvious homophobe and no apology will change that, it's just his beliefs.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,407
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 10, 2013 1:05:33 GMT -5
I didn't know it was a shoot fight, I thought it was a regular match. Although maybe Puder should have realised that making a top WWE star look like a chump was gonna end up bad for him. Puder said in an interview a few years ago that they were told ahead of time that it would be a shoot fight and they should try to win. Said that after it was done he got some heat but also said management decided for it to be a shoot because they didn't think any of the TE competitors could compete with Kurt in a shoot/wrestling match. Of course, if you listen to Kurt, it was supposed to be an amateur wrestling style match and he got pissed because Puder put the key lock on him when they weren't doing an mma fight. As for the Chris Benoit/WCW stuff. The more stories I hear, the more I get the feeling that he (and to a much lesser extent Eddie and Malenko) weren't the great guys people made him out to be. This is more so for Benoit than the other 2, but they all seemed to be difficult at different times. There are rumors that they got Jerry Lynn somewhat blackballed from getting a legit shot in his younger days. They were somewhat bullies at times. Malenko injured Bret Hart doing a move Bret told him not to do because Malenko was too small to do it how he wanted to do it. Plus with Malenko there is the rumors of him supplying various drugs to the wrestlers. Dean's brother is a pharmacist. Supposedly Dean gave Eddy some pills after Eddy had gotten cleaned up.
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Post by osiris on May 10, 2013 4:36:28 GMT -5
No, the fact that you're 15 kind of makes your entire point about the perception of teenage sexual activity invalid. No disrespect, but you have no real frame of reference or hindsight on the subject or the topic. Being 15, you're in the thick of one of the most volatile, confusing, exciting, times of your life. As it should be. I assure you that within three years, you're going to look back at a lot or at least some of your opinions, actions and world views right now (no matter what they are) with a bit of a cringe. It's human nature and part of the fun of growing up. You may have your head on straight enough to know that any adult trying to establish that type of relationship with you is bad news, but you shouldn't condemn those who may not be so fortunate. I find that disrespectful even if it wasn't intended to be. Now I understand that you know a lot about Teenagers as you mentioned you were a high school teacher, and hell you were a teenager once but I find that the fact that I'm going through this time in my life right now a clarity you no longer have on this issue, I know for the most part how the mind works at this point, especially at the present era, and how that effects the thought process, and I'm not condemning those who don't have their heads on straight I'm saying that in the case of it being consensual they are at least partially responsible for their actions. Are the adults still at fault? Yes to just as big or more of an extent. but no matter what, and this is what I think you and a lot of people seem to forget, no disrespect to anyone, but you all seem to miss that despite everything in the works which alter the perspective and influence choices , at the end of the day that's what it is. It is still is a choice. You're a high school teacher, so let me use this as an example, if a student does something wrong, like say kicks the living crap out of another student, but did so under persuasion of an adult in their life, Does the adult get punished in that case? (Given at that point it is out of the school's jurisdiction) correct me if I'm wrong but the adult is punished? But does that mean the student is off the hook? I don't know what school you teach at but that doesn't fly where I'm from. And why do you think it is that the student would be punished in that scenario? The simple answer? Because they made a bad choice. It's the same thing, people always have a choice no matter the circumstance and as such should take responsibility, not falling back on copouts like "Hormones" or "Mental Illness". Do those things exist? Absolutely. But at the end of it all a choice is a choice regardless of the influence. Actually yeah. Coercion is a crime. As is being the only adult at a drinking party, supplying the means I commit a crime, aiding an abetting a fugitive of the law and manipulating a child into a sexual relationship. It's not bout what you do and don't know about sex or adults or relationships or anything. It's about an adult using their perceived power to convince you into doing something you otherwise wouldn't whether via coercion or blackmail or grooming. Grooming is the act of an adult convincing the younger person of their similarities and creating an us vs them scenario in a way to get the child's trust and ultimately toget what they want from children namely sex. It's no less shady when people do it in the name of religion (see Scientology).
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Post by rapidfire187 on May 10, 2013 14:49:48 GMT -5
Did anyone actually read the transcript of that Feinstein chat? That kid clearly wanted to have sex with an adult. Doesn't mean the kid was necessarily wrong though. When I was 15, I would have hooked up with an adult woman in a heartbeat.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on May 10, 2013 14:59:51 GMT -5
Did anyone actually read the transcript of that Feinstein chat? That kid clearly wanted to have sex with an adult. Doesn't mean the kid was necessarily wrong though. When I was 15, I would have hooked up with an adult woman in a heartbeat. whether the kid initiated or not is irrelevant (even though said kid was non-existent). the power disparity alone makes it wrong.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on May 10, 2013 15:10:05 GMT -5
Did anyone actually read the transcript of that Feinstein chat? That kid clearly wanted to have sex with an adult. Doesn't mean the kid was necessarily wrong though. When I was 15, I would have hooked up with an adult woman in a heartbeat. So if an 8 year old wants to really badly hook up with a 32 year old it's okay? C'mon bro, It was a scummy move regardless of if the non existent kid was down for it or not. As an Adult you need to exercise better judgement than what Feinstein did.
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Post by rapidfire187 on May 10, 2013 15:19:01 GMT -5
Oh yea, RF was totally in the wrong and deserved his punishment. No denying that.
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Surfer Sandman
Bubba Ho-Tep
You had to be a big shot, didn't cha
Posts: 506
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Jul 6, 2013 8:57:39 GMT -5
Paul Heyman just seems like you average promoter/booker. Before he made it in the business, he was just a lowly photographer/writer for "Wrestling Power" magazine.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Jul 6, 2013 9:09:05 GMT -5
Paul Heyman just seems like you average promoter/booker. Before he made it in the business, he was just a lowly photographer/writer for "Wrestling Power" magazine. Yeah he definitely worked his way up. He screwed a lot of people to get there though.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 6, 2013 9:23:14 GMT -5
To play devil's advocate, I do wonder if Benoit acted in the heinous way he did due to head trauma. To be honest, I wouldn't place him at the top of the list because I doubt he came into the business as scummy as some of the people mentioned in this thread like Fritz Von Erich and Rob Feinstein. However, it was Chris Benoit who chose to abuse drugs, wrestle with severe concussions, and made all the other bad decisions that drove him into becoming the monster that devastated his family, and left the wrestling business and its fans to pick up the pieces. So, he would still rank pretty high on a list of wrestling's scumbags. I'll be honest, watching the shoot interview where Paul London and Bryan Kendrick talk about the guy makes me wonder how nobody seemed to notice or care that there was something deeply wrong with him long before he did what he did.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 6, 2013 11:00:57 GMT -5
Just so we're all clear here, there's no "in my opinion it wasn't entrapment". I haven't read these chat logs, but if he actually refused multiple times and they continued to try and convince him, that's entrapment. You can argue about whether it was justified or not, sure, but by definition it is in fact illegal and if the police had done it the case would have been thrown out. Feinstein never said he wasn't interested in going. From the transcript: If you read the rest of the chat Feinstein's only concern is that it may be the cops and he's sneaky about it too. He asks the kid on the telephone to play MTV and the Perverted Justice guy does. Once Feinstein is happy thinking that the "kid" is indeed who he says he is they plan to meet. Wait, his handle was RFWrestling? How dumb can you get?
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