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Post by ________ has left the building on May 30, 2013 12:46:29 GMT -5
Didn't she hold one of the titles at a point, with someone? She was a 2X Knockout's champion. How Winter got booked as Knockouts champion, it would had been better she never won it. |
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BigAl
Unicron
Hands of the Wicked Banana
Posts: 2,851
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Post by BigAl on May 30, 2013 15:51:20 GMT -5
She was a 2X Knockout's champion. How Winter got booked as Knockouts champion, it would had been better she never won it. This. She wins both times spraying poisionus blood onto mickie's face and the ref didnt notice or question blood on Mickies face! Hate to be winters tampon)and only to never be on TV except in back stage segments, and no titles matches with other KO's on TV, except losing the belt both times in her first title defense!!! And never addressed as the champ while being champ, as the storylines were all focused on Velvet and Karen. It's almost like she should have never won it. |
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Sam Punk on May 31, 2013 11:16:12 GMT -5
Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
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Post by Long A, Short A on May 31, 2013 17:18:11 GMT -5
I'm doubting this going to be like "The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love" and more like a Cinemax late night movie minus the awkward Scissor Sister. OVW has done some gay related storyline in the past year like Paradyse helping Brandon Espinosa come out of the closet and the sexual identity of Chris. This one, I have to say is fan service. They might prove me wrong but I doubt. I've been watching OVW on and off for two years and this man is right on target. The commentary, the acting, and the audience reaction turned a possibly groundbreaking story into some 2003 fanservice BS. |
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
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This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on May 31, 2013 18:24:11 GMT -5
It would be cool if we could get an actually seriously and tastefully done lesbian romance angle in pro wrestling whether an indy or a larger company. But its not going to happen. Why? Society's fetishization of lesbians. Look at THIS THREAD ALONE. The people reacting by talking about how hot the girl on girl is, rather than the potential of a well done lesbian angle. Because for most men the fact that girl on girl is hot is just more important than that. And hell I'm not even really an exception since I too find girl on girl hot obviously, and it did cross my mind when i saw this thread. I've just been trying to set it aside in situations like this ever since I realized how gross and harmful the overfetishization of lesbians by society is.
There really has yet to be a lesbian relationship on mainstream media that HASNT been done partially for titillation of male audiences. Even the creator of the L Word a show that was supposed to be FOR lesbians admitted straight up that they played up the fetishization factor so that they could actually get the show to air. Because there's no way the network (was it HBO?) was going to put it on television if there wasn't some of that stuff.
So WRESTLING being ahead of the times socially? Don't make me laugh. Its going to be many years before you see lesbianism being played as anything but for the fetishized aspect. Maybe comedy or something, but never a serious tastefully done angle. Or not for a long time.
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ratetankmark
Samurai Cop
Equalist Lex Luthor
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Posts: 2,426
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Post by ratetankmark on Jun 1, 2013 0:40:14 GMT -5
It would be cool if we could get an actually seriously and tastefully done lesbian romance angle in pro wrestling whether an indy or a larger company. But its not going to happen. Why? Society's fetishization of lesbians. Look at THIS THREAD ALONE. The people reacting by talking about how hot the girl on girl is, rather than the potential of a well done lesbian angle. Because for most men the fact that girl on girl is hot is just more important than that. And hell I'm not even really an exception since I too find girl on girl hot obviously, and it did cross my mind when i saw this thread. I've just been trying to set it aside in situations like this ever since I realized how gross and harmful the overfetishization of lesbians by society is. There really has yet to be a lesbian relationship on mainstream media that HASNT been done partially for titillation of male audiences. Even the creator of the L Word a show that was supposed to be FOR lesbians admitted straight up that they played up the fetishization factor so that they could actually get the show to air. Because there's no way the network (was it HBO?) was going to put it on television if there wasn't some of that stuff. So WRESTLING being ahead of the times socially? Don't make me laugh. Its going to be many years before you see lesbianism being played as anything but for the fetishized aspect. Maybe comedy or something, but never a serious tastefully done angle. Or not for a long time.  |
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Post by Andy Martin on Jun 4, 2013 11:59:30 GMT -5
Maybe she'll be the new Doctor. |
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zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
Posts: 32,702
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Post by zeez on Jun 4, 2013 15:18:55 GMT -5
I can see this for what it is and to that I say.... aw yeah......  |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 7, 2013 10:20:36 GMT -5
FWIW, new videos just show that Taeler is being using Heidi to get the Women's title
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
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Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Jun 7, 2013 11:56:46 GMT -5
Really? People think this is well done? Terrible acting and shitty writing don't go away because "lesbians".
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Reflecto
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The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Jun 7, 2013 12:43:48 GMT -5
Point of order, though- it's a slug on this side, but it's a slug on the other. If it was a man on man romance, if the two were meant to be babyfaces, it'd be the exact same way- because no matter how many people want a serious gay gimmick for some male wrestler- if they're a heel, it'd be the same thing we get all the time, and if it was a babyface gimmick, it'd invariably be done to pander to yaoi fans who think guy on guy is as hot as guys think girl on girl is hot. Bringing in society fetishizing lesbians is true, but it has to also add to the fact that in the current millennium, gay men are just as fetishized by women as lesbians are by men- and if you're going to run a tasteful [which, in a pro wrestling context, inherently means they kind of have to be the good guys], there has to be that partial titillation level...and when you count that it's very rare you see a wrestler- male or female- who wouldn't immediately be seen as an incredibly beautiful woman or incredibly handsome man- that kicks it into overdrive.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jun 7, 2013 13:48:51 GMT -5
Really? People think this is well done? Terrible acting and shitty writing don't go away because "lesbians". Because titillation overrides thespian skills and story. |
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,723
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jun 7, 2013 22:55:30 GMT -5
Point of order, though- it's a slug on this side, but it's a slug on the other. If it was a man on man romance, if the two were meant to be babyfaces, it'd be the exact same way- because no matter how many people want a serious gay gimmick for some male wrestler- if they're a heel, it'd be the same thing we get all the time, and if it was a babyface gimmick, it'd invariably be done to pander to yaoi fans who think guy on guy is as hot as guys think girl on girl is hot. Bringing in society fetishizing lesbians is true, but it has to also add to the fact that in the current millennium, gay men are just as fetishized by women as lesbians are by men- and if you're going to run a tasteful [which, in a pro wrestling context, inherently means they kind of have to be the good guys], there has to be that partial titillation level...and when you count that it's very rare you see a wrestler- male or female- who wouldn't immediately be seen as an incredibly beautiful woman or incredibly handsome man- that kicks it into overdrive. Male homosexuality is quite simply not sexualized and fetished in the same way lesbian sexuality is in our culture. Thats a completely ridiculous claim. A small fringe movement of yaoi fanboys/girls on the internet isn't something any wrestling company is going to bother to appeal to. Its a subculture. Its not a society wide thing constantly enforced by the media like fetishized lesbian sexuality is. Homosexuals ARE objectified by women, but not sexually. Rather usually in the "gay friend" stereotype. Which is totally a negative and objectifying stereotype that could be played up in a wrestling angle, but yaoi fangirls are just simply not the type of group a wrestling company would ever bother appealing to since they'd risk losing too many other fans by doing so. Rather a heel gay gimmick would be an over the top flamboyant character meant to annoy the fans and play to homophobia, and a face gay character would likely use that same flamboyance as a play to comedy and parody. A COUPLE could potentially end up using a stereotype such as the "bear and twink" or "older man younger man" stereotype, and again probably played either for comedy if face or playing blatantly on homophobia if heel. So yeah a male gay couple in a wrestling company would still be marginalized but they wouldn't be fetishized and they probably wouldn't even be openly sexual towards each other since that taboo has barely been crossed on some of the more progressive mainstream media let alone pro wrestling which will always be behind the times. You need to learn difference in scale. There's a difference between society wide systematic objectification, sexualization, and fetishization and a small subculture group with no influence. Basically there's a difference between "it exists" and "its a systematic problem with our culture". Not that I'm not bothered by the way Yaoi fangirls sexualize gay couples, just that its not nearly on the same level because of the difference in prevalence. Patriarchal straight men still control the media overall, so of course fetishized lesbian relationships are going to be a bigger problem because yaoi fangirls control... some corners of the internet kinda. Idk I keep saying this but i want to make it very clear that its basically a difference in scale. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 8, 2013 1:14:30 GMT -5
Point of order, though- it's a slug on this side, but it's a slug on the other. If it was a man on man romance, if the two were meant to be babyfaces, it'd be the exact same way- because no matter how many people want a serious gay gimmick for some male wrestler- if they're a heel, it'd be the same thing we get all the time, and if it was a babyface gimmick, it'd invariably be done to pander to yaoi fans who think guy on guy is as hot as guys think girl on girl is hot. Bringing in society fetishizing lesbians is true, but it has to also add to the fact that in the current millennium, gay men are just as fetishized by women as lesbians are by men- and if you're going to run a tasteful [which, in a pro wrestling context, inherently means they kind of have to be the good guys], there has to be that partial titillation level...and when you count that it's very rare you see a wrestler- male or female- who wouldn't immediately be seen as an incredibly beautiful woman or incredibly handsome man- that kicks it into overdrive. Male homosexuality is quite simply not sexualized and fetished in the same way lesbian sexuality is in our culture. Thats a completely ridiculous claim. A small fringe movement of yaoi fanboys/girls on the internet isn't something any wrestling company is going to bother to appeal to. Its a subculture. Its not a society wide thing constantly enforced by the media like fetishized lesbian sexuality is. I know many women that look at gay porn for pretty much the same reason many men look at lesbian porn. "What's better than 1 of an attractive member of the gender of my sexual preference, 2 of them doing sexual things." |
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,274
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Jun 8, 2013 15:18:09 GMT -5
But that's an anecdotal claim, a completely different scale than what Toates is talking about.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
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This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jun 8, 2013 15:42:43 GMT -5
Right exactly. Like I said its a difference in scale. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist or even that its not a problem, its just a difference in scale and pervasiveness.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 14:11:41 GMT -5
.. because the wrestling audience, namely men, are naturally homophobic, I'm not saying they/we hate gay people, they just make them/us feel uncomfortable. With all due respect, could you cut the bigotry and speak for your own damn self? There's no need to paint all wrestling fan or all men with your stereotyping brush. |
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Jun 12, 2013 21:05:08 GMT -5
.. because the wrestling audience, namely men, are naturally homophobic, I'm not saying they/we hate gay people, they just make them/us feel uncomfortable. With all due respect, could you cut the bigotry and speak for your own damn self? There's no need to paint all wrestling fan or all men with your stereotyping brush. Had you bothered to read any of my other posts regarding this subject, you'd have seen that I made it clear that while I was generalizing, I was not saying that all men or all wrestling fans hate gay people. I stated that very clearly. What I said was that men, in general, naturally feel uncomfortable around gay men. This doesn't mean that they hate them, they just feel uneasy. Homophobic may have been a bad choice of words, but it was the easiest thing to say. Taking half of one sentence out of context from one of my three posts in this topic doesn't make your point valid. If you're comfortable about gay men great. I am too. I was making a generalization like everyone on the planet does every day. |
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Post by firebomb on Jul 11, 2013 23:08:57 GMT -5
so Heidi finally kissed her in their match on Saturday. I'm guessing that's gonna be the end of that angle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 0:33:15 GMT -5
Chanting "TNA" has never seemed more appropriate.
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