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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 9, 2013 21:35:58 GMT -5
So I'm not the biggest comic book reader in the world, but I did certainly enjoy a lot of the DC animated shows back in the day, and this thought hit me while doing some TV Tropes surfing during some downtime.
Very often you can draw parallels between pro wrestling and comic book characters: heroes and villains fitting archetypes, sometimes simple morality plays, twists that make things more complicated, etc. There are even types of wrestlers that we classify as comic characters.
The obvious example is "Superman" John Cena (obviously used disparagingly), but I think you also get wrestlers who fit other characters. For example, I think the best use of Brock Lesnar in the WWE right now is as a "Doomsday heel": a bad guy who's presence means that somebody is going to be hurt, and badly. Some wrestlers tried in recent years to cash in on the popularity of Heath Ledger's Joker and try to work in aspects of that character, etc.
That said, whenever I try to think of more complex characters that wrestling could introduced, I'm always interested in the idea of a heel who takes on some of the characteristics of the biggest bad of all, Darkseid. Here you have a cunning, vile being of pure evil PLUS intelligence, but who's strong enough that he can not only take a punch from Superman...but very often dish the punishment right back. His goals are just pure destruction and dominance, nothing more. He has a stable of minions, but they're far from pushovers, so if you get through them then you're about the face the wrath of the baddest man there is.
Given the parameters of the character, has there ever been, or could there ever be, a heel in wrestling that we can label as "the Darkseid of wrestling"?
The closest I could think up on the fly would've been a more long-term booked Vader. Big, strong, destructive, but not a dummy in the least, Vader as a "conqueror" of sorts with a stable of minions loyal to him mostly out of fear could've been something that worked pretty well, at least in my opinion.
I'm trying to think of others, but maybe just some fantasy booking would do the trick, too.
What say y'all?
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jun 10, 2013 8:50:32 GMT -5
Ugh, Triple H.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Jun 10, 2013 9:45:31 GMT -5
No, he's not Darkseid, he's Batman with a strong case of Superman envy.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Jun 10, 2013 10:50:32 GMT -5
Triple H is Megatron.
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Rave
El Dandy
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Post by Rave on Jun 10, 2013 10:56:55 GMT -5
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Post by Red Impact on Jun 10, 2013 11:02:20 GMT -5
Vince. Every time Vince tries to use his power now, he's interrupted and knocked out/broken. He's always being beat up and taken out by someone so the big bad Triple H can come in and fight them. Vince used to have all the power, but now he's a feeble man behind Triple H.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 10, 2013 11:10:11 GMT -5
If he hadn't been hijacked by Vince, it would have been Ministry Taker.
Taker as Big Evil could have been that too (just without the minions).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 11:12:34 GMT -5
Given the parameters of the character, has there ever been, or could there ever be, a heel in wrestling that we can label as "the Darkseid of wrestling"? ........it'd be tough. To me, Darkseid works best when he masterminds the awful things that happen in his name. There's an ego, but it's so far beyond him to actually consider him egotistical. But he doesn't through punches, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. He's an untouchable evil. HHH and Vince, at least in parts, come across as Darkseid heels, but completely (and especially in that last aspect) they were lacking. Vince had the mastermind bit down perfectly, but he was either eager to fight or looked weak when in a sudden confrontation. Of the two I think Vince could've easily been the Darkseid heel, because he wasn't a wrestler. HHH could easily come across as a mastermind, and never looked weak in any sort of confrontation, but he was too eager - and it'd be because of the ego that he'd jump in with (or in front of) the underlings.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 10, 2013 11:45:40 GMT -5
I don't know how you'd pull it off. I mean, a big part of Darkseid's schtick is being that he murders a f***-ton of people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 12:04:18 GMT -5
And too, it depends on which recent depictions you want to go on.
Galactic Conqueror Darkseid? Planetary Genocide Darkseid? It'd be kinda cool if you had a wrestler who had his own Glorious Godfrey, Granny Goodness (and her Furies) and the rest of his crew going around "conquering" indy feds...
You get too recent though, you run into A-Being-of-Evil-So-Pure-He's-More-Of-An-Abstract-Concept Darkseid.
...you know, that'd kinda be a cool wrestling gimmick. He's got a mantra so perfect and absolute that merely listening to it drives you to his cause. His existence is so evil and vile that by merely participating in a wrestling federation, it's slowly pulled it into a black hole. I'm sure there's a few people out there who do that metaphorically, but you know what I mean.
DC New 52 is hot garbage, so I don't know or really care what he is right now, unfortunately.
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Post by evilone on Jun 10, 2013 16:17:39 GMT -5
So wrestling needs a Unicron! Hell yeah!
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Jun 10, 2013 18:33:38 GMT -5
If WWE were to ever turn John Cena heel, he'd be Darkseid.
Who could stop him? He's John Cena.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jun 11, 2013 0:36:21 GMT -5
Call me when his broken body gets tossed out of Astrotrain "But-uh I-uh still-uh function-uh!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 0:41:31 GMT -5
...you know, that'd kinda be a cool wrestling gimmick. He's got a mantra so perfect and absolute that merely listening to it drives you to his cause. His existence is so evil and vile that by merely participating in a wrestling federation, it's slowly pulled it into a black hole. Make it so.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 11, 2013 1:24:14 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar is the obvious answer, probably.
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Post by flatsdomino on Jun 11, 2013 2:06:25 GMT -5
Dude, that WAS Ministry Taker. As a kid, I always kind of associated the two. As mentioned, Ministry Taker getting hijacked by Vince killed it, but there was a period where Undertaker was, bar none, the scariest, most evil heel I'd ever seen.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jun 11, 2013 9:25:40 GMT -5
HHH is Thanos written by Jim Starlin. He's the biggest, baddest, strongest and smartest and noone can defeat him unless he (subconciously) allows it.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Jun 11, 2013 14:02:44 GMT -5
So I'm not the biggest comic book reader in the world, but I did certainly enjoy a lot of the DC animated shows back in the day, and this thought hit me while doing some TV Tropes surfing during some downtime. Very often you can draw parallels between pro wrestling and comic book characters: heroes and villains fitting archetypes, sometimes simple morality plays, twists that make things more complicated, etc. There are even types of wrestlers that we classify as comic characters. The obvious example is "Superman" John Cena (obviously used disparagingly), but I think you also get wrestlers who fit other characters. For example, I think the best use of Brock Lesnar in the WWE right now is as a "Doomsday heel": a bad guy who's presence means that somebody is going to be hurt, and badly. Some wrestlers tried in recent years to cash in on the popularity of Heath Ledger's Joker and try to work in aspects of that character, etc. That said, whenever I try to think of more complex characters that wrestling could introduced, I'm always interested in the idea of a heel who takes on some of the characteristics of the biggest bad of all, Darkseid. Here you have a cunning, vile being of pure evil PLUS intelligence, but who's strong enough that he can not only take a punch from Superman...but very often dish the punishment right back. His goals are just pure destruction and dominance, nothing more. He has a stable of minions, but they're far from pushovers, so if you get through them then you're about the face the wrath of the baddest man there is. Given the parameters of the character, has there ever been, or could there ever be, a heel in wrestling that we can label as "the Darkseid of wrestling"? The closest I could think up on the fly would've been a more long-term booked Vader. Big, strong, destructive, but not a dummy in the least, Vader as a "conqueror" of sorts with a stable of minions loyal to him mostly out of fear could've been something that worked pretty well, at least in my opinion. I'm trying to think of others, but maybe just some fantasy booking would do the trick, too. What say y'all? NWO Hogan, with Sting as the Orion fated to defeat him, and yet untrusted by other heroes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 15:09:25 GMT -5
It should of been Wade Barrett. There was about two weeks where I thought he'd finally be the heel that dominated both through being a great physical threat, intelligence, lackeys and sheer force of will I always wanted.
One of the problems the WWE has, in my mind, is that the only kind of heel they seem to book is "Lesser than the hero". No matter what the story is, there's always a sense that the heel is the heel because he HAS to cheat. The hero is positioned as unbeatable through regular means. The problem is they forget an entire other kind of heel: A dominant threat who's a bad guy because he's a huge jerk. Someone who can beat the hero's down if they wanted, but we want to see the hero win because the bad guy is an awful person. You want to know the problem with Brock Lesnar this run? The WWE pretends he's the second thing, and we all want him to be the second thing, but in actual practice he's the first.
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Jun 11, 2013 18:59:26 GMT -5
I guess this is my reason why ultimately wrestling bores me more than excites me. The absence of a real reason to need a hero as powerfull as they let cena be for the most part. And the lack of ambition to to try some innovative things to build more characters to pull something like this off.
I think is the biggest reason why having Brock, Rock, CM Punk, Triple H,Taker, and a few other potential cast members (Bryan, the shield, just about everyone who is lingering, Orton, Ziggler, Jericho)
To have a Darkseid you'd have to have a Lex and so on. You get my drift. The concept would be awesome though. I may just fire up Wwe 13 to fulfill my needs.
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