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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 8, 2013 11:37:06 GMT -5
All I've heard from her is that the ladder match with Gail f***ed her legs up pretty bad. Then again that doesn't much constitute as "personal issues".
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 8, 2013 11:43:30 GMT -5
Definitely would. The Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers to draw people in. Why have any female workers under contract at all then? Why not just pick up girls at local strip clubs before a show and trot them out in front of the camera if performance skills don't matter? Heck, you could do likewise with the mens division too and just have promos and posedowns featuring people from the local stage school and gyms, introduced by Hulk Hogan. The knockouts division has proven you can get good ratings with quality female workers, the reason it doesn't do as well as it once did was because they depushed the whole thing, let the talent it was built around go and replaced them with people who just weren't as good.
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Post by Young Game on Aug 8, 2013 11:47:16 GMT -5
Definitely would. The Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers to draw people in. They need to be to make them stay.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 8, 2013 13:35:07 GMT -5
WWE should re-sign her. Just keep her away from Cena and things will be fine. Have a feud with AJ, but lose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 13:48:18 GMT -5
...the way I see it, Vince could be smelling blood in the water, and could look to damage TNA a bit further by taking arguably one of their top 5 performers right now right when she's getting hot. They could get some mileage out of Mickie vs. AJ, and then there's the likes of Paige and Emma for her to work with after that. She'd probably be used more to put people over than be the top star in the division, but it'd be seen as WWE taking a valuable asset away from TNA rather than really wanting Mickie. She didn't leave WWE on very good terms and they're not keen on bringing back divas who aren't. I don't think it's going to happen.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,509
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 8, 2013 14:20:46 GMT -5
Are Mickie and Magnus still an item? Since he just resigned, Mickie will probably too. Unless I'm out of the loop and they're not together anymore.
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ratetankmark
Samurai Cop
Equalist Lex Luthor
RIP Rik Mayall, you blimmen genius - Ria Vandervis on Rik Mayall
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Post by ratetankmark on Aug 8, 2013 14:23:03 GMT -5
I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, but how come everytime some people show up it always ends up into the same argument, I personally think that SORs thing about how Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers isn't true, I watch the Knockouts for good wrestling, like Gail and Taryn, the attractiveness is a bonus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 14:36:35 GMT -5
I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, but how come everytime some people show up it always ends up into the same argument, I personally think that SORs thing about how Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers isn't true, I watch the Knockouts for good wrestling, like Gail and Taryn, the attractiveness is a bonus. The notion that women wrestlers don't need talent is one of the most ridiculous myths in wrestling today. It's been disproven many times. Or is it just a coincidence that whenever they wrestled, Maria and Kelly Kelly would kill crowds whereas Mickie James and Gail can get audiences more excited as a match goes on?
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,443
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 8, 2013 14:54:11 GMT -5
And we can't discount the effect that having skilled females can have on the future. When a young AJ watched Lita perform, it inspired her to get into the business, and she's currently one of the best female wrestlers around (better than many males in the roster, too), and on the character side of things, she outdoes almost every male in WWE. When you reduce the Diva/Knockout role to insipid catfights and misogynistic stripteases, girls like her aren't going to be inspired to do anything other than turn the TV off in disgust. Over time, the business stagnates when it comes to female talent, and the self-fulfilling prophecy comes to pass. Which I think is rather the point of this kind of argument.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Aug 8, 2013 18:48:58 GMT -5
Definitely would. The Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers to draw people in. Why have any female workers under contract at all then? Why not just pick up girls at local strip clubs before a show and trot them out in front of the camera if performance skills don't matter? Heck, you could do likewise with the mens division too and just have promos and posedowns featuring people from the local stage school and gyms, introduced by Hulk Hogan. The knockouts division has proven you can get good ratings with quality female workers, the reason it doesn't do as well as it once did was because they depushed the whole thing, let the talent it was built around go and replaced them with people who just weren't as good. I never said performance skills didn't matter I said that wrestling ability didn't matter and I stand by that. If you look at the most popular women's wrestlers of all time, why are they popular? Because they're hot. That's all it is. People don't line up to meet Torrie Wilson at a wrestling convention because she was a mat technician. Most women's mat technicians are struggling to make money working for promotions like SHIMMER and SHINE. And also, That whole Knockouts raising the ratings thing isn't true at all. TNA was doing the same 1.0-1.1 it does now with Gail and Kong back on top. I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, but how come everytime some people show up it always ends up into the same argument, I personally think that SORs thing about how Knockouts don't need to be good wrestlers isn't true, I watch the Knockouts for good wrestling, like Gail and Taryn, the attractiveness is a bonus. The notion that women wrestlers don't need talent is one of the most ridiculous myths in wrestling today. It's been disproven many times. Or is it just a coincidence that whenever they wrestled, Maria and Kelly Kelly would kill crowds whereas Mickie James and Gail can get audiences more excited as a match goes on? Is it really? If it's a myth how come the most popular women's wrestlers of all time go in this order 1. Trish (Who is good in the ring but mostly remembered for being hot) 2. Sable 3. Sunny And then after that you're probably looking at Mickie, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson, Lita, Candice Michelle, Ashley Massaro etc only 2 on that list I'd consider "above average" in ring. And sure, the girls might be able to have a killer match but again the men can get the audience excited also. What do the Knockouts in their current state bring to TNA that you can't see someone in the men's division doing much better? Sure Gail Kim might be a great women's wrestler but how good is she compared to Austin Aries?
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 8, 2013 19:14:08 GMT -5
Why have any female workers under contract at all then? Why not just pick up girls at local strip clubs before a show and trot them out in front of the camera if performance skills don't matter? Heck, you could do likewise with the mens division too and just have promos and posedowns featuring people from the local stage school and gyms, introduced by Hulk Hogan. The knockouts division has proven you can get good ratings with quality female workers, the reason it doesn't do as well as it once did was because they depushed the whole thing, let the talent it was built around go and replaced them with people who just weren't as good. I never said performance skills didn't matter I said that wrestling ability didn't matter and I stand by that. If you look at the most popular women's wrestlers of all time, why are they popular? Because they're hot. That's all it is. People don't line up to meet Torrie Wilson at a wrestling convention because she was a mat technician. Most women's mat technicians are struggling to make money working for promotions like SHIMMER and SHINE. And also, That whole Knockouts raising the ratings thing isn't true at all. TNA was doing the same 1.0-1.1 it does now with Gail and Kong back on top. The ratings used to be lower, where 1.1-1.2 was the peak. They actually improved in the same timeframe that the knockouts division was better to the point where 1.1 because the norm no matter what. Further, when you broke down the ratings of the shows when the knockouts division was at it's best, the knockouts were typically the highest rated segment, or vying for it with the main event. The argument then was whether the timing was the reason they were the best-rated segment, or if it was the actual wrestling. And if we're going to use ratings stagnation as an excuse for anything, it'd be that the direction of the company since Hogan came on board hasn't benefited them. Afterall, he was supposed to help them turn the corner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 19:14:24 GMT -5
The notion that women wrestlers don't need talent is one of the most ridiculous myths in wrestling today. It's been disproven many times. Or is it just a coincidence that whenever they wrestled, Maria and Kelly Kelly would kill crowds whereas Mickie James and Gail can get audiences more excited as a match goes on? Is it really? If it's a myth how come the most popular women's wrestlers of all time go in this order 1. Trish (Who is good in the ring but mostly remembered for being hot) 2. Sable 3. Sunny And then after that you're probably looking at Mickie, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson, Lita, Candice Michelle, Ashley Massaro etc only 2 on that list I'd consider "above average" in ring. And sure, the girls might be able to have a killer match but again the men can get the audience excited also. What do the Knockouts in their current state bring to TNA that you can't see someone in the men's division doing much better? Sure Gail Kim might be a great women's wrestler but how good is she compared to Austin Aries? There's a couple problems with your counterargument. 1. Your list is very selective with who it includes. Replace Ashley and Candice (neither of whom were popular) with Victoria (popular during her face run) and Melina (popular when turned face), who are significantly better workers. That list jumps up to four of nine who are above average workers. Throw Sensational Sherri in since she was the prototype for what all wrestling divas became, and throw Kong in too, since she was so popular with fans in TNA. That list jumps up to six of eleven. Sure, you could easily throw in Maria and Kelly, but my point is that making a list like that as a litmus test isn't exactly scientific. 2. Sunny and Sable were Attitude Era performers. Everyone and their mom was popular during the Attitude Era and WWE spent an inordinate amount of time trying to make them big names. They were also novelties, before "hawt gurls on TV" became an overused staple, and that was at the root of their appeal. Now you can find hot girls anywhere. There's nothing compelling about the women just looking good anymore. 3. I don't necessarily agree, but you said it yourself, Trish is number one. Good in the ring, and hot. That word "and" is key. It is the balance of beauty and in-ring talent that makes female wrestlers the big attractions that they can be. It's finding the women who balance both out that is so very important. Is there any shock that the Women's Division in WWE experienced a resurgence in 2006-2009 when it was helmed by Trish and Lita, and then Mickie and Melina? All good wrestlers, all attractive, all popular with fans. Regardless of personal opinion, Trish is generally considered by fans to be one of the better-looking female wrestlers. Guys wanted to watch her because she was made out of sex appeal. But they didn't feel so embarrassed to get up and leave or change the channel (depending on location) because her matches were just good enough to hold up to scrutiny. She didn't stink up the ring every time she wrestled and it wasn't embarrassing to watch. A few botches? Sure. But she could cover it up and shrug it off and get right back to it. The big appeal of female wrestlers is that they can give those attracted to them something very pretty to look at. But they make it appropriate for what's being watched because it's backed up by some good quality wrestling. There's a reason Trish and Lita main evented a Raw and not neither Sable/Sunny nor Del Rey/Hamada (although that second one is impossible for a litany of reasons beyond aesthetics ).
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Aug 8, 2013 19:37:19 GMT -5
Is it really? If it's a myth how come the most popular women's wrestlers of all time go in this order 1. Trish (Who is good in the ring but mostly remembered for being hot) 2. Sable 3. Sunny And then after that you're probably looking at Mickie, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson, Lita, Candice Michelle, Ashley Massaro etc only 2 on that list I'd consider "above average" in ring. And sure, the girls might be able to have a killer match but again the men can get the audience excited also. What do the Knockouts in their current state bring to TNA that you can't see someone in the men's division doing much better? Sure Gail Kim might be a great women's wrestler but how good is she compared to Austin Aries? There's a couple problems with your counterargument. 1. Your list is very selective with who it includes. Replace Ashley and Candice (neither of whom were popular) with Victoria (popular during her face run) and Melina (popular when turned face), who are significantly better workers. That list jumps up to four of nine who are above average workers. Throw Sensational Sherri in since she was the prototype for what all wrestling divas became, and throw Kong in too, since she was so popular with fans in TNA. That list jumps up to six of eleven. Sure, you could easily throw in Maria and Kelly, but my point is that making a list like that as a litmus test isn't exactly scientific. 2. Sunny and Sable were Attitude Era performers. Everyone and their mom was popular during the Attitude Era and WWE spent an inordinate amount of time trying to make them big names. They were also novelties, before "hawt gurls on TV" became an overused staple, and that was at the root of their appeal. Now you can find hot girls anywhere. There's nothing compelling about the women just looking good anymore. 3. I don't necessarily agree, but you said it yourself, Trish is number one. Good in the ring, and hot. That word "and" is key. It is the balance of beauty and in-ring talent that makes female wrestlers the big attractions that they can be. It's finding the women who balance both out that is so very important. Is there any shock that the Women's Division in WWE experienced a resurgence in 2006-2009 when it was helmed by Trish and Lita, and then Mickie and Melina? All good wrestlers, all attractive, all popular with fans. Regardless of personal opinion, Trish is generally considered by fans to be one of the better-looking female wrestlers. Guys wanted to watch her because she was made out of sex appeal. But they didn't feel so embarrassed to get up and leave or change the channel (depending on location) because her matches were just good enough to hold up to scrutiny. She didn't stink up the ring every time she wrestled and it wasn't embarrassing to watch. A few botches? Sure. But she could cover it up and shrug it off and get right back to it. The big appeal of female wrestlers is that they can give those attracted to them something very pretty to look at. But they make it appropriate for what's being watched because it's backed up by some good quality wrestling. There's a reason Trish and Lita main evented a Raw and not neither Sable/Sunny nor Del Rey/Hamada (although that second one is impossible for a litany of reasons beyond aesthetics ). 1. I'll give you Melina. Sherri was around in a time when women's wrestling still had some respect so you can't include her. Kong I'll give you but it's not a fair judgement because the Impact Zone was smark central. If you add Ashley, Candice, Kelly and Maria in you have about 4/9 who were hot and could work. 2. Regardless of when they were big they still would be the most popular females of all time. All three in their prime are 8/10+ looks wise. Coincidence? 3. Again, if true. How come SHIMMER and SHINE who have very attractive women who can work 3-4 star matches aren't drawing more than the same 100-150 super fans every 3 months? Surely if women who could wrestle were such a draw they'd be on TV somewhere, right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 19:45:03 GMT -5
There's a couple problems with your counterargument. 1. Your list is very selective with who it includes. Replace Ashley and Candice (neither of whom were popular) with Victoria (popular during her face run) and Melina (popular when turned face), who are significantly better workers. That list jumps up to four of nine who are above average workers. Throw Sensational Sherri in since she was the prototype for what all wrestling divas became, and throw Kong in too, since she was so popular with fans in TNA. That list jumps up to six of eleven. Sure, you could easily throw in Maria and Kelly, but my point is that making a list like that as a litmus test isn't exactly scientific. 2. Sunny and Sable were Attitude Era performers. Everyone and their mom was popular during the Attitude Era and WWE spent an inordinate amount of time trying to make them big names. They were also novelties, before "hawt gurls on TV" became an overused staple, and that was at the root of their appeal. Now you can find hot girls anywhere. There's nothing compelling about the women just looking good anymore. 3. I don't necessarily agree, but you said it yourself, Trish is number one. Good in the ring, and hot. That word "and" is key. It is the balance of beauty and in-ring talent that makes female wrestlers the big attractions that they can be. It's finding the women who balance both out that is so very important. Is there any shock that the Women's Division in WWE experienced a resurgence in 2006-2009 when it was helmed by Trish and Lita, and then Mickie and Melina? All good wrestlers, all attractive, all popular with fans. Regardless of personal opinion, Trish is generally considered by fans to be one of the better-looking female wrestlers. Guys wanted to watch her because she was made out of sex appeal. But they didn't feel so embarrassed to get up and leave or change the channel (depending on location) because her matches were just good enough to hold up to scrutiny. She didn't stink up the ring every time she wrestled and it wasn't embarrassing to watch. A few botches? Sure. But she could cover it up and shrug it off and get right back to it. The big appeal of female wrestlers is that they can give those attracted to them something very pretty to look at. But they make it appropriate for what's being watched because it's backed up by some good quality wrestling. There's a reason Trish and Lita main evented a Raw and not neither Sable/Sunny nor Del Rey/Hamada (although that second one is impossible for a litany of reasons beyond aesthetics ). 1. I'll give you Melina. Sherri was around in a time when women's wrestling still had some respect so you can't include her. Kong I'll give you but it's not a fair judgement because the Impact Zone was smark central. If you add Ashley, Candice, Kelly and Maria in you have about 4/9 who were hot and could work. 2. Regardless of when they were big they still would be the most popular females of all time. All three in their prime are 8/10+ looks wise. Coincidence? 3. Again, if true. How come SHIMMER and SHINE who have very attractive women who can work 3-4 star matches aren't drawing more than the same 100-150 super fans every 3 months? Surely if women who could wrestle were such a draw they'd be on TV somewhere, right? Point two is still important--you're analyzing a product in a different era based off of variables that no longer exist. It's no different than the people who try and book modern promotions like it's still the 70's and 80's when demographics and the very nature of the business have changed. You won't get the same results. The Attitude period, in particular, is a major departure from other time periods in wrestling. As for point three, women alone aren't a big draw. That much is true. But just because something isn't a big draw by itself doesn't mean it can't be a big draw alongside something else that is, in a way that supplements the product. Good female indie wrestling is still not known by a lot of fans. They dismiss the women as being incompetent without even seeing them wrestle. Exposure to them wrestling on a program with larger viewership can, however, change all of that. Not saying it will, but it can. Would Trish have gained much fame on some random indie? No way. But neither did Bryan Danielson! Only when he jumped to WWE's nationally-televised product did he gain a truly massive fanbase. What he was in ROH is fish poop compared to what he is today. As another, non-wrestling example, look at the character of Joey Tribbiani in Friends. Very popular. Well-liked by the audience. When the show ended, he got his own spin-off. It flopped. Joey wasn't a character capable of supporting an entire show, but when used in concert with other characters and solid writing, was an integral component of the program.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Aug 9, 2013 2:30:17 GMT -5
Anybody that would fire Velvet is a dumb mother f***er.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Aug 9, 2013 3:23:08 GMT -5
Suppose women want to watch TNA and they see their only representation is for incredibly sleazy sex appeal? It's bad business to disregard an entire gender as a potential audience when if TNA had attractive women AND women who could wrestle AND women who portrayed actual characters with actual storylines the company could have its cake and eat it too.
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Post by jimmyjames on Aug 9, 2013 3:54:46 GMT -5
Back to Mickie. With TNA allowing her time off for her singing career, and promoting it like they do, her boyfriend getting a major push and signing a new deal, I don't see any way she leaves, unless she is done with wrestling.
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JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by JCBaggee on Aug 9, 2013 4:01:10 GMT -5
I'd imagine she's in the same boat as Sting. She could jump ship to WWE and make a boatload of money, but she won't be consistently top of the ladder in WWE like in TNA.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,145
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Post by Paco on Aug 9, 2013 4:33:15 GMT -5
According to Gerweck, the rumor going around on Taryn's "personal issues" is that she might be pregnant.
Take it with a grain of salt for now...
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Post by celticjobber on Aug 9, 2013 5:17:12 GMT -5
According to Gerweck, the rumor going around on Taryn's "personal issues" is that she might be pregnant. Take it with a grain of salt for now... Taryn also just recently finished filming a part in a horror movie called "Bayou Tales".
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