dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,045
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Post by dav on Aug 10, 2013 18:16:55 GMT -5
To be fair House Shows are down everywhere. I remember attending a Smackdown House Show back in 2006 and there was 18,000 people in the arena setting a new record. Smackdown came back in 09-10 and I didn't go but I had a friend who did and the announced attendance figure was 10,000 and some change. TNA needs to focus more on the House Shows no doubt about it but I was mainly talking about TV and PPV attendance. I guess all these House Show figures actually show how well Impact would draw without Hulk and Sting though. Or just that Hogan and Bischoff haven't done very well of a job in drawing in as much crowds as they have and increasing brand awareness to the extent where it doesn't need them to draw a large crowd without them. Really, they were meant to bring in business across the board and they don't appear to have lived up to the hype of taking TNA to a whole new level if they're still struggling to reach consistently higher numbers in their tours.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Aug 10, 2013 18:28:30 GMT -5
What doesn't make sense? The entire point is people are going to complain regardless of who you put in. You could take anyone and put them in that spot and people are going to complain unless their favourite wrestler gets pushed. And once their favourite wrestler DOES get pushed they'll go back to complaining about the execution or the build (See: Sabin, Chris) It's lose-lose. TNA should stick with Eric Bischoff long term. Replacing a guy with years and years of experience for some random dude in the indies would be a "lol@TNA" moment. Some of the greatest bookers were first "random dudes from the indies". Like who? Vince McMahon: Born into the business and grew up in it Eric Bischoff: Started with the AWA and worked in their office for years before getting a power position in WCW Paul Heyman: Grew up in the business but worked WCW before ECW I'm curious what random bookers from the indies went into a national promotion with little to no prior experience and had all the power. To be fair House Shows are down everywhere. I remember attending a Smackdown House Show back in 2006 and there was 18,000 people in the arena setting a new record. Smackdown came back in 09-10 and I didn't go but I had a friend who did and the announced attendance figure was 10,000 and some change. TNA needs to focus more on the House Shows no doubt about it but I was mainly talking about TV and PPV attendance. I guess all these House Show figures actually show how well Impact would draw without Hulk and Sting though. Or just that Hogan and Bischoff haven't done very well of a job in drawing in as much crowds as they have and increasing brand awareness to the extent where it doesn't need them to draw a large crowd without them. Really, they were meant to bring in business across the board and they don't appear to have lived up to the hype of taking TNA to a whole new level if they're still struggling to reach consistently higher numbers in their tours. All I'm saying is this: Before going on the road full time: 1500-2000 on the road, 950 usually On the road full time: 3000-5000. Usually around 3500. Almost double the attendance for TV and don't even get me started on Pay Per View.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,045
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Post by dav on Aug 10, 2013 18:47:26 GMT -5
Those are just the TV figures. Because as said, TNA's house show figures really haven't changed much aside from odd shows here and there. Hogan wasn't brought on to promote just TV shows, but all of TNA's output. Turning the corner means taking all of the company's aspects to new levels, including House Shows. And we have to ask really, are the numbers solely because of Hogan? Ratings have dropped since he and Bishoff got on board, even reached low levels during that Monday Night experiment and two opportunities they had to bring in new audiences (The show they arrived, the aftermath of BFG '10) failed to capitalise on the high ratings for those two shows. TNA has had three years to grow as a company with Hogan just being one factor of that and others being talent such as Hardy, Aries and Roode. Also, how much of those TV tapings earnings are eaten up by the new costs of constant travel and exporting and setting up equipment? They might be pulling in a crowd, but that doesn't always mean that they're making the money they want.
I'm not saying that Bischoff being made head of creative is a bad thing as I think this appointment was just a confirmation of the position he and Hogan have had for a long time now. But when I remember about how TNA was supposed to turn the corner because of these two, I'm not really seeing it as much as I hoped when they first started. I honestly first heard of TNA years ago as them being an alternate to WWE. Hogan's hiring brought it to new levels although I didn't watch until I became a fan of Elijah Burke. They created interest, but I don't think it's been enough to live up to what they hyped themselves as.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Aug 10, 2013 18:52:49 GMT -5
Some of the greatest bookers were first "random dudes from the indies". Like who? I was speaking more of the territory/booker era. Some were former wrestlers, but a lot were simply businessmen who "got" wrestling, existing outside the major NWA/AWA/WWWF bubble. And I know what your point was, but what about when people like Bischoff are completely out of touch and you've ran out of options with others of that ilk? What does TNA do then? Try and hire a Brian Gerwirtz; a guy brought up entirely on WWE's flawed system? A guy whose only experience is writing a company that was already a monopoly when he got there? Or do you try and find someone outside the proverbial bubble, and surround him with wrestling minds? I don't know the answer. But I do know that day will come when they're at that crossroads. It's inevitable.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Aug 10, 2013 18:57:34 GMT -5
It's a shame TNA canned Dutch Mantel (Still Can Russo though)
But saying that we wouldn't have Zeb Colter if he was still at TNA
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 10, 2013 21:00:11 GMT -5
It's a shame TNA canned Dutch Mantel (Still Can Russo though) But saying that we wouldn't have Zeb Colter if he was still at TNA I remember reading how a lot of stuff that people really disliked on Impact was often booked by Dutch. Then again, who the hell really knows, anyway.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Aug 10, 2013 21:03:28 GMT -5
It's a shame TNA canned Dutch Mantel (Still Can Russo though) But saying that we wouldn't have Zeb Colter if he was still at TNA I remember reading how a lot of stuff that people really disliked on Impact was often booked by Dutch. Then again, who the hell really knows, anyway. That was Russo telling lies *Language* Russo's problem is he'll take credit but not blame. Like: Oh yeah that was me Hate: That was Dutch/Schiavone/Cornette
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Aug 10, 2013 21:22:36 GMT -5
I remember reading how a lot of stuff that people really disliked on Impact was often booked by Dutch. Then again, who the hell really knows, anyway. That was Russo telling lies *Language* Russo's problem is he'll take credit but not blame. Like: Oh yeah that was me Hate: That was Dutch/Schiavone/Cornette Actually Russo seems to always want to defend his shittier ideas. He's always talking about how great the David Arquette title change was because it got WCW Mainstream press.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 10, 2013 21:22:47 GMT -5
I remember reading how a lot of stuff that people really disliked on Impact was often booked by Dutch. Then again, who the hell really knows, anyway. That was Russo telling lies *Language* Russo's problem is he'll take credit but not blame. Like: Oh yeah that was me Hate: That was Dutch/Schiavone/Cornette That was also Dixie Carter telling lies about Dutch Mantell too. In fact, my co-hosts and I over at the Angry Marks Podcast Network have a joke that whenever TNA does something stupid, it's always Dutch Mantell's fault....even if he has no longer been with the company in years. And that is why you do not book these experienced bookers because for them, if something stupid happens....it is someone else's fault in their minds. Bischoff, Cornette, and Russo are pretty much the same in that regard.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Aug 10, 2013 21:31:35 GMT -5
That was Russo telling lies *Language* Russo's problem is he'll take credit but not blame. Like: Oh yeah that was me Hate: That was Dutch/Schiavone/Cornette Actually Russo seems to always want to defend his shittier ideas. He's always talking about how great the David Arquette title change was because it got WCW Mainstream press. He's changed that then, That's why I never beleave a word that comes from his mouth one moment he's the mastermind Behind Arquette as he thought it would get him mainstream press. The next it was all Tony Schiavone. He'll never admit a bad idea was a bad idea, He's the type that would defend Black Scorpion if he wrote it (Even Ole admits it was s***).
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 17, 2013 15:13:44 GMT -5
Can't we just put Borash in that position? I'll take Don West even. We'll see more themed matches. It might seem like a silly choice to some but I was thinking Borash would make sense as well for the whole "someone new" idea. He's been around not just the business but TNA specifically for a long time. He knows the talent. He's youngish, he seems fairly in touch and could make some storylines that would resonate with a younger audience possibly. He doesn't have experience in creative but honestly I don't think you need to have. Being a good creative mind is something you kind of either have or you don't and anyone is technically capable of booking, its booking WELL that takes talent. But practice isn't gonna buy you all that much in the business of booking a wrestling show. This is probably true of having the book in the wrestling industry more than most jobs. Especially if you don't have to write promos and everyone on the roster just cuts their promos on their own, then you don't even have to be a writer just an idea man. And everyone is an idea man. Not everyone is a GOOD idea man but everyone has ideas, and everyone who's involved in the wrestling industry and knows how things work PROBABLY has ideas for how they personally would run the show if they were given the head booker job. I'm sure JB has thought about it. So unless JB has no interest in the creative department or it turns out he's terrible at it I see no reason why a guy like JB couldn't be given a shot. I mean I have no idea if he actually has the talent for the position but I'd like to see and I'm sure at the very VERY least he couldn't make things worse. Another name I've been thinking is Matt Striker. Since again I don't see why you have to be someone with experience in the position to hold the book I think someone with the passion and knowledge of the wrestling industry and the relative youth and hipness compared to a foggy like Bischoff would be the way to go and Striker seems like someone who fits that bill. Who knows, take a chance, in the position your company is in now you're in a great position to take a chance on someone young and untested. TNA has a loyal audience who will probably not abandon it for anything and basically has only room to grow and very little room to fall. So testing out an untested creative direction with a new head booker seems like a great idea to me.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
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Post by Glitch on Aug 17, 2013 15:44:06 GMT -5
Can't we just put Borash in that position? I'll take Don West even. We'll see more pele themed matches. It might seem like a silly choice to some but I was thinking Borash would make sense as well for the whole "someone new" idea. He's been around not just the business but TNA specifically for a long time. He knows the talent. He's youngish, he seems fairly in touch and could make some storylines that would resonate with a younger audience possibly. He doesn't have experience in creative but honestly I don't think you need to have. Being a good creative mind is something you kind of either have or you don't and anyone is technically capable of booking, its booking WELL that takes talent. But practice isn't gonna buy you all that much in the business of booking a wrestling show. This is probably true of having the book in the wrestling industry more than most jobs. Especially if you don't have to write promos and everyone on the roster just cuts their promos on their own, then you don't even have to be a writer just an idea man. And everyone is an idea man. Not everyone is a GOOD idea man but everyone has ideas, and everyone who's involved in the wrestling industry and knows how things work PROBABLY has ideas for how they personally would run the show if they were given the head booker job. I'm sure JB has thought about it. So unless JB has no interest in the creative department or it turns out he's terrible at it I see no reason why a guy like JB couldn't be given a shot. I mean I have no idea if he actually has the talent for the position but I'd like to see and I'm sure at the very VERY least he couldn't make things worse. Another name I've been thinking is Matt Striker. Since again I don't see why you have to be someone with experience in the position to hold the book I think someone with the passion and knowledge of the wrestling industry and the relative youth and hipness compared to a foggy like Bischoff would be the way to go and Striker seems like someone who fits that bill. Who knows, take a chance, in the position your company is in now you're in a great position to take a chance on someone young and untested. TNA has a loyal audience who will probably not abandon it for anything and basically has only room to grow and very little room to fall. So testing out an untested creative direction with a new head booker seems like a great idea to me. Fixed my own previous post because it was supposed to say " pele themed matches" But as you were sir. Wouldn't hurt to see Borash in some creative position. In the early days of tna he was the company's online presence and was quite vocal with letting fans know what went on behind the scenes.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Aug 19, 2013 10:12:39 GMT -5
I feel like virtually anybody who takes the role is in trouble since the majority of wrestling fans consider "TNA Creative" an oxymoron.
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