Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 20:08:24 GMT -5
And to add onto this, Again, Everyone loved the Aces and Eights angle until about 6 months ago. It has ran a little long but people are always talking about how "Story lines should be built week to week" but as soon as someone does a long angle with plot twists and story people complain. I didn't love the Aces & Eights angle. It was yet another tired large faction angle from the beginning, except this one had the bonus of the big, scary, company-threatening, evil faction looking like shit for the first few months of their existence. I too didn't enjoy Aces & 8's. It was fun for like two weeks, then it became clear they had no clear end game or anything beyond the typical run-in/mystery men stuff that has already been done to death. It is funny, because Bischoff's best work was from 1996-1999. Three years of really bringing it in terms of creative wrestling promotion. Beyond that, not really much else to speak of. What has he been doing since then? The cold, hard facts is that he is nearly 60 years old and a producer of things like Girls Gone Wild, Scott Baio Is 45...and Single, Confessions of a Teen Idol, and Billy Ray Cyrus...Home At Last. His last real attempt to do ANYTHING in wrestling pre-TNA was Hulk Hogan's Celebrity Challenge. Based on all this, I'm not exactly overcome with anticipatory joy.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 8, 2013 20:09:32 GMT -5
LOL TNA.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Aug 8, 2013 20:09:42 GMT -5
I'm really asking here, who do you all think has been the best creative mind for TNA? I'm not even sure who all has been in creative. Jerry Jarrett? Dutch Mantel? Scott D'Amore? It seems like I've heard good things about them in TNA.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Aug 8, 2013 20:22:58 GMT -5
When I saw this thread, I was hoping for Brooke Hogan.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Aug 8, 2013 20:36:26 GMT -5
The fact is that this is a "what have you done for me lately?" business and Eric has done nothing of note lately. The fact is that his great run, and it was great, with WCW was last century. We are nearly 20 years past that time. The fact that he even still bragging about the 84 week ratings win is nearly as pathetic as Al Bundy bragging about scoring 4 touchdowns in one game. Eric Bischoff had 2 legit good ideas. The advent of Nitro and the NWO. I don't count Goldberg because it's not like an undefeated wrestler was a novel idea and he was still second fiddle to Hogan. 2 ideas from 1995 and 1996. That doesn't make you a great wrestling mind. Bischoff can benefit TNA greatly on the TV side of things, even then they're still in the same place they were 3 years ago so maybe it's time to rethink that line of thought. I highly doubt he's going to suddenly turn TNA into a powerhouse. TNA is what they are and they are where they will always be. Might as well just accept it.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Aug 8, 2013 20:43:19 GMT -5
SOR, I was one of the few who defended Bischoff in this thread but even I have to call bullshit on your earlier post. 1. Yeah, Eric Bischoff was the only guy to take it to Vince McMahon. That was 1995. What has he done lately? 2. Eric can turn TNA around? He's had a lot of power for 3 years now, and TNA is somehow in a worse position than before he started. 3. Three months that were considered bad? You gotta be kidding me. For reference, Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1993-1999. 1994 was okay, 1995 was terrible other than Nitro starting, 1996 was okay, 1997 and 1998 were good and 1999 was bad. So that's at least 2 years right there that were shitty. His stint in 2000 was also terrible. 4. People loving the Aces and Eights angle at any point is news to me. 5. Bischoff was definitely involved in the fall of WCW. He wasn't removed as President of WCW until September 1999 and that year WCW had already began a big downward spiral. Dumb decisions like bringing in KISS and Master P definitely didn't help matters. 6. People are looking for long storylines that are actually, y'know....good. No point having a long storyline if it sucks balls. 7. Again, Bischoff was removed as President of WCW in September 1999. Yeah he claims he was burnt out but by no means was this Eric volunteering to take a back seat. He got fired. 1. 1995-1999. What has he done lately? After a successful WWE run he and Jason Hervey produced some shows that got onto TV and without the numbers on me I'd assume they weren't failures. 2. Worse position? How so? TNA is on the roads and this year drew it's biggest crowd to date. Before that TNA was struggling to draw 2000-3000 fans to Pay Per Views. Also, without the numbers, finances, sponsorships etc in front of you how can you make judgement? I have evidence TNA is growing, do you have evidence it's in a worse place? 3. Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1994-1999. 94 was good, 95 was good, 96 was great, 97 and 98 are what many say is the best year of any company ever and 99 wasn't as great but was still above average (Hence the sold out arena's and high ratings) 4. Go back to January on this very board, you'll see praise for the angle. 5. Kevin Nash was head booker of WCW during the Master P angle. Hypothetically if Bischoff was responsible he at least tried a celebrity cross over which had worked for him 3 times prior (Rodman, Malone, Leno) every one in wrestling has had failed idea's. Even IWC favourites like Heyman, Cornette and Sapolsky. 6. I like the Aces and Eights story lines it had a lot of twists and turns. Again, people have only got sick of it within the last few months anyway. 7. He was removed from his position, not fired. If he were fired he wouldn't of came back in mid 2000 and if he was worthless like you and others are trying to claim he never would of got the invite back to "save the company" in mid 2000.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 8, 2013 20:51:40 GMT -5
SOR, I was one of the few who defended Bischoff in this thread but even I have to call bullshit on your earlier post. 1. Yeah, Eric Bischoff was the only guy to take it to Vince McMahon. That was 1995. What has he done lately? 2. Eric can turn TNA around? He's had a lot of power for 3 years now, and TNA is somehow in a worse position than before he started. 3. Three months that were considered bad? You gotta be kidding me. For reference, Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1993-1999. 1994 was okay, 1995 was terrible other than Nitro starting, 1996 was okay, 1997 and 1998 were good and 1999 was bad. So that's at least 2 years right there that were shitty. His stint in 2000 was also terrible. 4. People loving the Aces and Eights angle at any point is news to me. 5. Bischoff was definitely involved in the fall of WCW. He wasn't removed as President of WCW until September 1999 and that year WCW had already began a big downward spiral. Dumb decisions like bringing in KISS and Master P definitely didn't help matters. 6. People are looking for long storylines that are actually, y'know....good. No point having a long storyline if it sucks balls. 7. Again, Bischoff was removed as President of WCW in September 1999. Yeah he claims he was burnt out but by no means was this Eric volunteering to take a back seat. He got fired. 1. 1995-1999. What has he done lately? After a successful WWE run he and Jason Hervey produced some shows that got onto TV and without the numbers on me I'd assume they weren't failures. 2. Worse position? How so? TNA is on the roads and this year drew it's biggest crowd to date. Before that TNA was struggling to draw 2000-3000 fans to Pay Per Views. Also, without the numbers, finances, sponsorships etc in front of you how can you make judgement? I have evidence TNA is growing, do you have evidence it's in a worse place? 3. Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1994-1999. 94 was good, 95 was good, 96 was great, 97 and 98 are what many say is the best year of any company ever and 99 wasn't as great but was still above average (Hence the sold out arena's and high ratings) 4. Go back to January on this very board, you'll see praise for the angle. 5. Kevin Nash was head booker of WCW during the Master P angle. Hypothetically if Bischoff was responsible he at least tried a celebrity cross over which had worked for him 3 times prior (Rodman, Malone, Leno) every one in wrestling has had failed idea's. Even IWC favourites like Heyman, Cornette and Sapolsky. 6. I like the Aces and Eights story lines it had a lot of twists and turns. Again, people have only got sick of it within the last few months anyway. 7. He was removed from his position, not fired. If he were fired he wouldn't of came back in mid 2000 and if he was worthless like you and others are trying to claim he never would of got the invite back to "save the company" in mid 2000. 2. I have evidence that the risks they have done haven't gotten even close to the rewards they have hoped for. And my evidence is......if they got the rewards they wanted, they would STILL be on Monday. 4. those people were the minority. The group was already getting basically beaten up. 5. do you know who made Nash head booker of WCW? Eric Bischoff. 7. They were trying anything and in their opinion, the guy who saved WCW and the guy who saved WWE on the same show.....sounded good to them.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Aug 8, 2013 20:55:55 GMT -5
I feel this video fits the topic at hand.
Give Bischoff 3-6 months in charge. If he sucks I'll be here talking about how much it sucks with you and admitting I was wrong.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Aug 8, 2013 21:00:32 GMT -5
You all know what this means.
Nick Gulas runs a territory, George Gulas gets a mega push. Bill Watts is the head booker, Erik Watts gets a mega push. Vince McMahon is the promoter, Shane McMahon goes 50/50 with Kurt Angle and now Stephanie is part of this big angle. Stu Hart's top babyfaces are his kids. Carlos Colon's top babyfaces are his kids.
Some have been more successful and better choices then others. But yeah, I think this is one reason people may not be too coy on Easy E being head of creative.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 8, 2013 21:01:38 GMT -5
You all know what this means. Nick Gulas runs a territory, George Gulas gets a mega push. Bill Watts is the head booker, Erik Watts gets a mega push. Vince McMahon is the promoter, Shane McMahon goes 50/50 with Kurt Angle and now Stephanie is part of this big angle. Stu Hart's top babyfaces are his kids. Carlos Colon's top babyfaces are his kids. Some have been more successful and better choices then others. But yeah, I think this is one reason people may not be too coy on Easy E being head of creative. Dusty Rhodes gets the book............Dustin Rhodes gets pushed big time.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 8, 2013 21:28:26 GMT -5
Well, at the very least, you now have someone who probably knows more about bikers than anyone on the team.
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
Posts: 14,613
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Post by Rick Mad on Aug 8, 2013 22:14:10 GMT -5
At first I was like "ugh Bischoff? This can't be anything good."
Then I remembered that the main storyline for the past year was a rebel biker gang and thought "Wait, he wasn't head of creative this whole time?"
I'm a huge WCW fan and I've even considered myself an Eric Bischoff fan in the past. I don't know the backstage dealings, but I do know when he and Hogan came in initially, things got awful from a creative standpoint. If that was more Hogan's doing than Eric's, then great, Eric has a chance. If we're going to get more magical Hall of Fame rings, then.... eh...
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Aug 8, 2013 22:16:09 GMT -5
If anything, it'd be nice to have a wrestling world where people like Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Vince Russo, Paul Heyman, Jim Cornette, and other such names people mention who have held the book (Prichard, Mantell, etc.) aren't around controlling things behind the scenes. Yes, I'd much rather prefer Heyman-Cornette types in charge than Hogan-Bischoff-Russo types, but wrestling as a whole, especially wrestling that isn't McMahon-owned, won't change, won't innovate, won't experiment, won't be something altogether different when people keep going back to these types of people to run a show. The question, of course, being who? Most of the guys people name are either not in a position to do that or seem more like pipe dreams than actual alternatives. Someone with a different vision? Which, in this case, doesn't necessarily have to be someone from the wrestling business, but someone who has showrunning experience, someone who has developed complex narratives involving several characters who interact and undergo change over time, and someone who has a particular story worth telling. Wrestling is wrestling, yes, but wrestling is also television the majority of the time. Maybe someone from outside the business can head creative, whereas the wrestling people function as the nuts and bolts of getting stories from point A to B and B to C (the agents, in other words). Names that come to mind: David Fury, David Shore, David Chase, Paul Dini, Alan Ball, etc. Start writing television and pay-per-views into season blocs, even when wrestling storylines are typically both dynamic (always changing) and inert (never starting from scratch or stopping on a dime but always occurring in the middle) at once. Build to important shows on TV to then build to pay-per-view (like a season finale). And so on. It always seems like people in the wrestling business treat wrestling like it's fundamentally different from all other forms of narrative television. Barring the fact that conflict occurs in a shared space through physical combat as determined by a set of rather arbitrary rules, what exactly is the difference? Instead of bookers complaining that now they have television in their wrestling, why not make wrestling get into television? Treat the show and the talent and the angles as seriously as any other showrunner on television would and see what happens.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 8, 2013 22:27:27 GMT -5
Not sure on the others, but Paul Dini? Really? As if the Knockouts Division wasn't fanservice enough?
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
Posts: 14,613
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Post by Rick Mad on Aug 8, 2013 22:31:03 GMT -5
Yeah, the "if not them then who?" mentality is a little silly - at one point Heyman, Bischoff, etc. were all unknowns. Every big name is an unknown at some point and someone's gotta find them. As people on messageboards, it probably isn't going to be one of us, but it'd be nice to see someone in the industry give it a shot.
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Vampiro138
Hank Scorpio
the greatest vampire in the HISTORY of our sport
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Post by Vampiro138 on Aug 8, 2013 22:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Aug 8, 2013 22:36:01 GMT -5
I thought Jeff Jarrett got this job yesterday? So tell us Dixie why do you keep bring bookers and big talent guys who all where fired from that job. You know there was a reason right? To give a guy power who only had TWO years of success lest be real only two years that happened well over fifteen years ago. For once Dixie try using someone who isn't a failure at there job before hand. Try someone new and get fresh blood in your company.
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Post by rybackrulez on Aug 8, 2013 22:39:24 GMT -5
If he is as hands off as he was in wcw, i see no problem
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 22:52:58 GMT -5
I'm gonna be optimistic and opt to wait and see how this goes. I am fully aware that this optimism never pays off.
TNA's spinning its wheels right now, the BFG series is cool but it's shoved so far in the background of this MMA disaster and old fogies that it's real hard lately to appreciate the good.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Aug 8, 2013 23:32:44 GMT -5
Bischoff did good and bad in WCW. Lateral move, at best.
Now the real question.....what will Jason Hervey's role be? Because those two are close enough that I think they even take bubble baths together going over ideas for a new reality show starring David Faustino where he has to raise a kid that isn't his.
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