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Post by JTG Fan on Sept 3, 2013 9:29:42 GMT -5
I mean in a lot of ways this is being built like Sting/WCW vs the nWo. WCW guys were made to look like chumps for a long stretch at the beginning of the angle, but when they finally got a moment? Huge pop (DDP giving Hall the Diamond Cutter, Sting in the War Games match, Luger winning the title, Sting finally attacking the nWo, Giant standing up to Hogan). That is what makes me laugh about people crying about the show ending with the Corporation being strong after 2 weeks of shows. It took many weeks for WCW to even look competent against the nWo with only a few cathartic victories and months until they seemed to ever have an upper hand. Fans today just got no damn patience. I for one want to see the heels be strong, effective heels. Remember when AJ and Ziggler seemed like the hottest new thing the night after TLC only to have Cena dump crap on them the next Monday?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 9:34:29 GMT -5
I actually like it quite a bit. HHH is a natural heel, Orton's finally being given something to do and Bryan is getting a huge reaction every night. As annoying as this all is, and the way it is presented, it is allowing the crowd to cheer for Bryan as he faces insurmountable odds as Triple H developes his new Corporation. Although Bryan appears to be clobbered, he DID have to deal with a surprise RKO, the Shield beating him down, and then the Big Show, so it can be explained tactfully. I still have hopes this leads to what it is supposed to end, and that is Bryan triumphant at the very end.
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Post by corndog on Sept 3, 2013 10:49:42 GMT -5
I mean in a lot of ways this is being built like Sting/WCW vs the nWo. WCW guys were made to look like chumps for a long stretch at the beginning of the angle, but when they finally got a moment? Huge pop (DDP giving Hall the Diamond Cutter, Sting in the War Games match, Luger winning the title, Sting finally attacking the nWo, Giant standing up to Hogan). That is what makes me laugh about people crying about the show ending with the Corporation being strong after 2 weeks of shows. It took many weeks for WCW to even look competent against the nWo with only a few cathartic victories and months until they seemed to ever have an upper hand. Fans today just got no damn patience. I for one want to see the heels be strong, effective heels. Remember when AJ and Ziggler seemed like the hottest new thing the night after TLC only to have Cena dump crap on them the next Monday? I understand the whole strong heels thing, I was a WCW fan up until '99. The question is, who is Sting? It doesn't look like Bryan, he keeps getting beat down. Bryan is the sacrificial lamb that gets the Corporation over. He is more of a Ric Flair/DDP to the Corporation. That is the problem. I understand the booking and it's going to get the saviour over huge. The problem is, I see the saviour being Cena, which is completely worthless.
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BrianZane
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Post by BrianZane on Sept 3, 2013 10:54:22 GMT -5
Are they going to try to stretch this thing out to Wrestlemania? So, another 5-6 months of Raw and Smackdown ending with Bryan laid out?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 10:57:38 GMT -5
Really enjoying this so far, but they do need to mix up the endings a little bit. Raw next week should end with Edge dropping a huge pipebomb right in front of the Corporation, just so the faces have the last word for a change.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 3, 2013 11:27:08 GMT -5
Really enjoying this so far, but they do need to mix up the endings a little bit. Raw next week should end with Edge dropping a huge pipebomb right in front of the Corporation, just so the faces have the last word for a change. Either that, or Bryan (and maybe Dolph or Miz or whomever) rescues Edge from a Corporate beatdown to close out Raw.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 11:34:01 GMT -5
Are they going to try to stretch this thing out to Wrestlemania? So, another 5-6 months of Raw and Smackdown ending with Bryan laid out? Nah, just until Cena comes back, he's the safest bet that's guaranteed to get a massive return pop.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Sept 3, 2013 11:35:16 GMT -5
I'm all for a slow build up. I can even tolerate the fact that the build up is getting into mid-late Wheel of Time territory.
What I can't tolerate is the way they played Bryan up as someone who can't beat Show no matter what. That was annoying.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 3, 2013 11:46:06 GMT -5
Are they going to try to stretch this thing out to Wrestlemania? So, another 5-6 months of Raw and Smackdown ending with Bryan laid out? Nah, just until Cena comes back, he's the safest bet that's guaranteed to get a massive return pop. As noted before, Survivor Series is in Boston this year. I'm fully expecting Cena to return to the rescue there (or at least make a token appearance).
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Sept 3, 2013 11:51:06 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks?
Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 12:02:16 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if they continue with the constant D-Bry beatdowns with Monday Night Football starting next week.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 3, 2013 12:04:27 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if they continue with the constant D-Bry beatdowns with Monday Night Football starting next week. That, coupled with Edge guest-starring, is now leading me to believe that they'll change things up a bit, perhaps by capping Raw with a major segment involving Edge speaking out against the Facgime, leading to The Shield (on Hunner's orders) to try and attack him, but we finally see Bryan score a win, and maybe a wrestler or two finally grows a backbone to help DB against Hunner's goons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 12:09:29 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks? Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances? They could but it shouldn't be another 'no confidence' thing. Maybe Bryan gets fired in front of the roster, but someone like Punk speaks up and says 'if you fire him, you fire ME'. The entire roster speaks up and Bryan leaves the arena with them.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 3, 2013 12:11:07 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks? Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances? They could but it shouldn't be another 'no confidence' thing. Maybe Bryan gets fired in front of the roster, but someone like Punk speaks up and says 'if you fire him, you fire ME'. The entire roster speaks up and Bryan leaves the arena with them. I've gotta admit, that would be a neat way to get Punk inserted into this angle aside from the "rescues Bryan from a beatdown" route.
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Post by Corre.222 on Sept 3, 2013 12:26:45 GMT -5
What is Vince McMahon's role going to be in all of this?
Are they still carrying through with his plans of him turning face in very late 2013, to set up Triple H vs Vince in Wrestlemania for "full control"?
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kerda
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Post by kerda on Sept 3, 2013 12:33:16 GMT -5
The title of this thread is funny, because I can't remember the last time I've been more interested in a WWE storyline than I have the last month or so. This "New Corporation" is the best thing they've done in years, IMO:
1) THE HEELS ARE ACTUALLY GETTING HEAT! When was the last time you had a heel or heel faction in WWE that seemed genuinely dangerous? I think that's part of why some people are freaking out so much about Bryan/Show/Ziggler etc. being "killed", because it's been so long since the bad guys in WWE actually had power and posed a true, near-insurmountable challenge to the good guys. I mean, hell, Triple H is getting legit boos, and he's one of those few guys with the tenure to be a de facto babyface.
2) The sinister Mr. McMahon was great, classic, but he was cartoony. Hunter and Steph, on the other hand, bring a sense of gravity to their megalomania that in a way is more terrifying. They're drunk on power, but they still maintain that even-tempered, disaffected "corporate" demeanor where even the most sociopathic actions are "just business".
3) Daniel Bryan is being booked as the anti-Cena. It's like they took the time to honestly dissect why John Cena never became their new Rock or Austin, in spite of a decade of pushing him relentlessly, and they realized that a top babyface needs to vulnerable. It became a running gag whenever Cena "miraculously" overcame the odds (see: destroying the Nexus almost single-handedly), but Bryan has spent weeks getting beaten down, as he logically should be when he has an entire stable of heels and the full weight of corporate power working against him. DB is eventually going to have that breakthrough moment where he DOES manage to do something miraculous and overcame insurmountable odds, but it's going to feel earned. He'll have gone through hell and shed blood, sweat and tears to get there.
4) They've spun a MITB cash-in on Daniel Bryan out to being a company-wide storyline that gives all of the babyfaces a central antagonist. Instead of just elevating Bryan, they're taking Show, Ziggler, Miz, Mark Henry (when he's healthy) and Cody and finally giving fans a reason to care for these guys other than "They smile when they come to the ring!". Going back to point 1, having strong heels has instantaneously made the babyfaces more interesting and vital, and for as much hand-wringing as this storyline has generated, I've not heard anyone saying "They really need to Cena back ASAP". I mean, hell, last night was the most over Cody Rhodes has EVER been, and it was all thanks to strong heels.
5) On a broader note, I love the more "reality" driven nature of their storytelling the past few weeks. I don't know if Total Divas is influencing it or is just a byproduct of it, but there's been a willingness to present the talent as actual people and not just characters recently, which does wonders for making the crowd connect with them on a deeper level. It gives me hope that, even after this "New Corporation" storyline has run its course, we're still going to see a more grounded, visceral manner of storytelling with Triple H assuming behind the scenes power.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 3, 2013 12:37:24 GMT -5
What is Vince McMahon's role going to be in all of this? Are they still carrying through with his plans of him turning face in very late 2013, to set up Triple H vs Vince in Wrestlemania for "full control"? Vince will be the hero authority figure, Cena will return and "lead the charge", D-Bry and Show will wind up being seconded (thirded?) in the angle. I totally get the comparisons to Austin/McMahon, or that this is just like Sting in '97, but I just don't have faith in someone just shoehorning enough "names" in to where it loses what it was from the outset, a way to build a new star, or elevate one that has been built organically.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 12:47:23 GMT -5
My problem with this storyline is it's just god-awful writing. I can't help but shake my head when I see people here calling it genius. Somehow they've gone from the focus of the story being on Bryan beating the corporate machine and becoming an Austin-level star to "Who is going to rebel against the regime?!" within a matter of weeks. Bryan shouldn't need help. When HHH finally "gets his", it should be solely at the hands of Daniel Bryan, not Big Show. And why the hell would these babyfaces want to help him anyway? Why would they want to help anyone? If I'm Dolph Ziggler or The Miz or R-Truth or any other babyface who is forced to watch with a tortured look on their faces, I'm looking at this thinking, "great, they don't see Bryan as a champion? One less guy I have to worry about stepping over on my way to the top of the ladder." The whole thing makes no damn sense. Bryan looks like an idiot. The babyfaces look even dumber. Orton is a lameduck champion. HHH is in every other damn segment. What in God's name is good about any of this? And the worst part is, the big payoff of this whole thing is some HHH-Vince showdown. You all know it too, so why are you fooling yourselves into believing anything else? Man, I'm so tired of those moments where you've got one dude kicking the shit out of like, 5 different people to get DAT POP two weeks into a feud and so people go home happy at the expense of actual threatening bad guys. I didn't used to feel that way but I'm totally going to blame that on the amount of times they had Cena pull that shit on any vaguely threatening heel. Cena not being able to do that to The Shield was a nice prelude of things to come. Now, it's been established Bryan can kick the shit out of anyone one-on-one, hell if he's fired up enough he's a handful for The Shield. If anybody booking this has been paying attention, DBD should be getting his payback bit-by-bit. The fact the Hunner Administration even targets him like they do is a part of psychological warfare: They're taking the strongest guy they have, which according to canon would be Daniel Bryan since he beat Cena CLEAN less than a month ago, then you constantly beat the shit out of him while the world watches. If you want to make it even more devastating you press gang his friends and/or family into beating him up while everyone is forced to watch. Now, I'd think the babyfaces would want to help just out of basic human empathy or else they're shitty babyfaces. Even if they didn't like DBD, which they probably don't, he is the guy who cleanly flattened John Cena while the lights were bright and everything was on the line. He deserves his due but if the Hunner Administration decides you're going too far, too fast, he's going to have The Shield and company kick the shit out of you too while he makes your friends watch or worse, makes them participate, in your destruction. And I didn't even talk about him possibly firing you. How long can any actual babyface worth their salt just move along and act like everything is fine, while it seems to come at the expense of your boss intimidating people who are on his shit list and holding live public beatings of your best and hardest-working coworker? What's it going to take to get someone else to walk away from Omelas? As far as the payoff being Vince/Hunner? We'll cross that bridge once we get to it, because I know there are still quite a few ways this can go to shit. Especially since...I dunno...does this count as a "Big Summer Angle"? As it stands now, I'm fine with what they're doing. I just think it makes for a better story for DBD to not go SuperCena on people, it's like years of that have got us to the point where people either just expect it or get thrown for a loop when it doesn't happen. He's should get to kick Orton's ass and he should be able to flatten Hunner, but considering almost everyone is playing the roles they should be playing...it's a feat so amazing I'm willing go with this until after the PPV.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Sept 3, 2013 13:06:40 GMT -5
I can't wait to see how HHH is going to come out of this looking better than everyone else
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BrianZane
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Post by BrianZane on Sept 3, 2013 13:10:50 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks? Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances? They could but it shouldn't be another 'no confidence' thing. Maybe Bryan gets fired in front of the roster, but someone like Punk speaks up and says 'if you fire him, you fire ME'. The entire roster speaks up and Bryan leaves the arena with them. "I'm Daniel Bryan!" "I'M Daniel Bryan!" [crowd of wrestlers all begin to scream out, "I'm Daniel Bryan!!"]
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