McDonald's employee tells off president, gets arrested

[HMARK Center]

Don't know the ins and outs of McDonalds as a place to work, but I'll say this: just saying "Why not look for a better job?" is a pretty crappy thing to say if you don't know a person's circumstances and if you're not aware of what the job market these days is really like, especially for people who may not have access to advantages like college educations or whatever.

I don't know this particular woman's circumstances, but "just find a better job" is very unrealistic for a ton of people.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

I don't mean to be an ass here, and I absolutely hate the "then get a better job" argument, as if decent paying jobs for unskilled laborers in this economy grow on trees or something, but it's freaking McDonalds. I mean, I work at a Loblaws/Independent Grocer as a cashier (for the moment, looking for something in my field) and I have no illusion that this kind of job was ever made with people who have families to support in mind. same holds true for McDonalds. that's a job you do as a high school student on weekends, or as a grandmother whose augmenting her pension (ALSO something that shouldn't happen, but we have to face the realities of the world we live in). the exec doesn't win any prize either because his remark made him sound like every bit the condescending, out of touch Randian corporate drone he probably is (I bet he works 70+ hours a week and doesn't think there's something wrong with that, either). so really, we have a situation here where a woman has a legit grievance but should probably be facing the reality that a job at McDonalds was never really meant for what she needs, and an exec who probably needs to be pulled aside by the HR or PR department so they can explain to him how not to react in the future. because calling the cops on her for speaking her mind is beyond a disproportionate response and just feeds into the "us vs. them" mentality thats going to lead to class warfare if these execs aren't careful. sorry, not really sure what my point was, I kinda lost it somewhere, but it just seems to me that people on both sides of the issue seem uneducated about the right thing to do in this situation.

[BRV]

I agree that the "if you don't like your job, then find a new one" argument is flawed and frankly kind of boorish, but there have to be better ways to ask for a raise than storming a corporate meeting.

Honestly, this just reeks of a staged maneuver to utilize a patsy to shine an even brighter spotlight on the plight of minimum-wage workers around the country more than it does one woman's good-natured attempt to find a better life for herself and her family.

[Michael Coello]

Oct 14, 2013 11:27:58 GMT -5 Sparkybob said:

I do think it's odd if she truly felt that McDonald can be a viable career in terms of money. I do feel bad for her kids and whatnot, but there is a reason why McDonald's can charge minimum wage for those type of jobs. It's very easy job to fill.

Without knowing her personal situation, I will suggest as an outsider for her to improve her personal stock. Community College/trade school should help but sadly not everybody is in position to go back to school.

Yes, cause if someone who has trouble paying bills needs anything, it's financial aid payments.

[BigBadZ]

Oct 14, 2013 9:47:26 GMT -5 The Summer of Muskrat XVII said:

Oct 14, 2013 7:48:59 GMT -5 @jeffx said:

Second not all McDonald's are franchises. Some are corporate ran and thus have higher pay.

This. If she knew anything about the company, she'd know that McOpCo stores, which are corporately owned, tend to pay better, have better benefits, better room for advancement etc. Its probably her Owner/Operator she should be pissed at, because if you spend a decade at a corporate store and don't get a promotion you either openly stated you didn't want it or you flat out aren't competent enough to deserve one.

And yes, I do work at McDonald's. Have off and on for about 6 years, I make about $33k annually, have decent benefits, and 3 paid weeks holidays a year. They've supported me through my stillborn son, my divorce, severe depression and at one point in time substance abuse issues. Like everyone I think I deserve more money, but all in all I really have very little to complain about with them so I'm willing to goto bat for them

I've never heard of this corporate vs franchise McDonald's, would you care to elaborate on how to tell the difference? I ask for two reasons:

1) I'm guessing a franchise store would be less likely to mess up orders (it happens to me entirely too frequently)

2) I'm job shopping and looking for something to get insurance since I turn 26 in 3 days.

[Malcolm]

I couldn't have been the only one thinking the thread title meant a McDonald's employee was telling off the President of the United States and got arrested. I was thinking it was either something political or Obama was having trouble ordering something through the drive thru.

[BigBadZ]

Oct 14, 2013 12:18:41 GMT -5 Malcolm said:

I couldn't have been the only one thinking the thread title meant a McDonald's employee was telling off the President of the United States and got arrested. I was thinking it was either something political or Obama was having trouble ordering something through the drive thru.

The president doesn't want a large Farva, he wants a liter of cola!

[BigWill]

Oct 14, 2013 9:57:52 GMT -5 SOR said:

Here is the real question. Why have children if you feel you're not making enough money to properly support them?

To even seriously be asking that question, you would either need to be presuming a lot, or must know more on her personal situation than this article gives.

[h]

It's not about the job market today. It's about the fact that she's held the job since she was 16 (10 years) and hasn't moved on despite being upset about the wages. I have a hard time believing that, despite her best efforts, no other opportunities have presented themselves in the past decade.

And no, it's not easy to pay off student loans. If you're serious about getting a better paying job, though, you can't just dismiss education and training as "too expensive." It's an investment. It sucks to pay off the loans, but it's the best way to do something about changing your own circumstances. Alternatively, you can hang around McDonald's forever and hope that they decide to pay liveable wages for a job that an uneducated 14-year-old will do for minimum wage.

It sounds coldhearted, but it's the reality that millions of people face. Chances are, the ones who take the steps to improve their circumstances will be the ones with improved circumstances.

[Sparkybob]

Oct 14, 2013 12:05:25 GMT -5 Michael Coello said:

Oct 14, 2013 11:27:58 GMT -5 Sparkybob said:

I do think it's odd if she truly felt that McDonald can be a viable career in terms of money. I do feel bad for her kids and whatnot, but there is a reason why McDonald's can charge minimum wage for those type of jobs. It's very easy job to fill.

Without knowing her personal situation, I will suggest as an outsider for her to improve her personal stock. Community College/trade school should help but sadly not everybody is in position to go back to school.

Yes, cause if someone who has trouble paying bills needs anything, it's financial aid payments.

Like I said I can't speak for her personal situation my point was more of a general point that business aren't a charity and you have to give them a reason on why they should a)employ you and B)Give you a good salary. Most of the times that means taking a risk by taking out student loans to improve your value to companies. Of course I understand there are people who can't do this, but that doesn't mean that this isn't a decent strategy.

[SEAN CARLESS]

Oct 14, 2013 13:35:16 GMT -5 h said:

It's not about the job market today. It's about the fact that she's held the job since she was 16 (10 years) and hasn't moved on despite being upset about the wages. I have a hard time believing that, despite her best efforts, no other opportunities have presented themselves in the past decade.

No one working in North America should be making a wage that low. That's the issue to me. It's a complete travesty. There should be a higher, universal minimum wage that employers are forced to pay their employees. These aren't paper boys. Some of these women work harder than people with so-called "real jobs".

[Deleted]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I thought the entire reason for a minimum wage initially was that it was the least amount of money someone could pay you while still being able to support yourself and your family with it. The bare minimum, thus the name.

How did we get to the point where people are up in here justifying a person not being able to afford the bare essentials because her job is "easy"? Just because you don't think much of her job doesn't mean she shouldn't be making a living wage, 'cause I look at it this way: if the people in the jobs you love to shit on actually get a living wage, then it's just common sense that those awesome jobs you currently occupy would be paying you above and beyond a living wage, right?

I just don't see any downside at all to them getting a wage to live on, because the so-called minimum wage these days? Sure, people can cut a lot of shit out and maybe get lucky to make it work at $7.25/hour, but I'm telling y'all that's just surviving for a lot of people and just surviving is a ****ed up way to live.

[Sephiroth]

I also would like to interject that the problem with the franchise model is thst it essentially prevents accountability on any end of things. Perhaps this woman is a lousy employee-or perhaps the franchise owner is a creep who only promotes people who kiss his rump rather than people who work hard and are reliable. But the corporate office can say "Hey, don't look at us-he's the owner!" and he can say "Tou got a problem, take it to corporate!"

The main issue I take with people who make the "get a better job!" argument is thst they make it sound as if it is simple, black and white. The reality is that we are currently living in the worst economy in a generation , a college education does not go as far as it used to, there is enormous competition for work at all levels, and a decent salary doesn't purchase as much as it used to. It's not the fifties anymore, the world has changed.

[Piccolo]

Yeah, I'm a little surprised (in an eyebrow-raising way) that not only has she not received/earned a single promotion from the entry level position in ten years, but that she didn't leave after, you know, three years of that. There are other places that offer unskilled positions, and if she's still getting minimum wage at her old job with no possibility for advancement, it's not like she has anything to lose. I'm not expecting miracles or anything, but I'm really skeptical that she couldn't have done something before now that was a little more savvy than just sitting in an entry-level position for a decade. It's not completely her fault, but your career is your responsibility. Advancing it or being stagnant is not entirely out of your control.

Oct 14, 2013 14:30:18 GMT -5 @keijikage said:

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I thought the entire reason for a minimum wage initially was that it was the least amount of money someone could pay you while still being able to support yourself and your family with it. The bare minimum, thus the name.

No, don't think so. If that were the case (that each were paid according to his need rather than according to the worth of the job), then the dependent children of self-sufficient parents would never be paid at their first jobs. I wouldn't have received my $5.15/hour at the Ames or the grocery store, because I didn't have a family to support, and also didn't really need to support myself. I was just doing it for extra spending money and savings for my future.

[Hit Girl]

For me, the issue isn't really about McDonalds' business practices.

I question whether it was necessary to arrest the woman.

[Sparkybob]

Oct 14, 2013 14:30:18 GMT -5 @keijikage said:

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I thought the entire reason for a minimum wage initially was that it was the least amount of money someone could pay you while still being able to support yourself and your family with it. The bare minimum, thus the name.

How did we get to the point where people are up in here justifying a person not being able to afford the bare essentials because her job is "easy"? Just because you don't think much of her job doesn't mean she shouldn't be making a living wage, 'cause I look at it this way: if the people in the jobs you love to shit on actually get a living wage, then it's just common sense that those awesome jobs you currently occupy would be paying you above and beyond a living wage, right?

I just don't see any downside at all to them getting a wage to live on, because the so-called minimum wage these days? Sure, people can cut a lot of shit out and maybe get lucky to make it work at $7.25/hour, but I'm telling y'all that's just surviving for a lot of people and just surviving is a ****ed up way to live.

The answers isn't simply to raise the minimum wage since some unintended consequences occur when you do.

[h]

The training and education argument is, indeed, very simple.

In this woman's case, getting no training or education has led to nothing.
Getting training or education could lead to something.

If your family's welfare is at stake, not everyone is going to give you sympathy if you choose to throw your hands up in the air and say, "It's not worth considering alternatives! I'll take the path with a 0% chance of success!"

[FinalGwen]

Oct 14, 2013 11:48:20 GMT -5 BRV said:

I agree that the "if you don't like your job, then find a new one" argument is flawed and frankly kind of boorish, but there have to be better ways to ask for a raise than storming a corporate meeting.

Honestly, this just reeks of a staged maneuver to utilize a patsy to shine an even brighter spotlight on the plight of minimum-wage workers around the country more than it does one woman's good-natured attempt to find a better life for herself and her family.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the way this is phrased seems to suggest than having empathy for people in the same situation and trying to bring attention to them all is somehow a negative.

Oct 14, 2013 16:10:40 GMT -5 Sparkybob said:

The answers isn't simply to raise the minimum wage since some unintended consequences occur when you do.

Yeah, poor people would have more money which they would most likely put back into the economy, helping us out of recession while also making sure that the poorest in society are able to support themselves and stay out of poverty. Kind of like the whole way we got out of the Great Depression.

[Piccolo]

Oct 14, 2013 16:18:15 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

Oct 14, 2013 11:48:20 GMT -5 BRV said:

I agree that the "if you don't like your job, then find a new one" argument is flawed and frankly kind of boorish, but there have to be better ways to ask for a raise than storming a corporate meeting.

Honestly, this just reeks of a staged maneuver to utilize a patsy to shine an even brighter spotlight on the plight of minimum-wage workers around the country more than it does one woman's good-natured attempt to find a better life for herself and her family.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the way this is phrased seems to suggest than having empathy for people in the same situation and trying to bring attention to them all is somehow a negative.

I don't see anything at all about empathy in this post, so I'd guess you're reading it wrong.

[BRV]

Oct 14, 2013 16:18:15 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the way this is phrased seems to suggest than having empathy for people in the same situation and trying to bring attention to them all is somehow a negative.

The point I was trying to convey was that this whole thing largely reads more like a calculated stunt to utilize a singular figurehead of the plight of minimum-wage workers than it does an individual woman standing up for herself and her family. Take from that what you will, but that's how I felt when I read it.