|
Post by Hit Girl on Oct 22, 2013 8:53:18 GMT -5
I don't want wrestlers to show emotion or personality
I prefer them as they are now.
Contrived, inconsistent, going through the motions, and with a wink to the camera implying that none of this matters in the slightest.
It's a surefire draw.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,661
|
Post by Bo Rida on Oct 22, 2013 9:01:40 GMT -5
Honestly they should laugh off most taunts and insults so it means more when a comment does eventually cause them to snap.
|
|
|
Post by Johawn on Oct 22, 2013 11:47:19 GMT -5
Anger's good for a big, personal angle.
I don't want to see too much of it, though. Say Damien Sandow's having a match with R-Truth on Smackdown. What I don't need to see there is a two minute promo earlier in the show where Damien Sandow pisses R-Truth off so they have a reason to fight. The reason to fight should be to improve their ranking so they can get a title shot.
If Damien Sandow cheats to win because it looks like he'll be beaten by R-Truth, then Truth should be pissed off that he's been screwed out of advancing in the rankings, and they can go into their series. I want to see personal, anger filled rivalries, but I want them in the context of wrestling being a sport with incentives and goals.
It's the same reason I don't think certain people should be fighting for titles. Bray Wyatt's a good example. Is he a guy who's going to put stock into a wrestling title? Hell no. He's there to promote a message, and wrestling is just a means to an end. It gives him an audience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 12:11:10 GMT -5
I've always been a big fan of the Arn Anderson & Jake Roberts style of promo, i.e. "you want to do that? Well, here's what I'm going to do."
|
|
EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
|
Post by EyeofTyr on Oct 22, 2013 12:32:37 GMT -5
Way I see it, look at a ton of the top names the company's had.
Hogan. He could turn even the smallest thing into the worst possible occurrence in not only his career, but his entire life. While in retrospect does alot of his work come across as hammy? Yeah. But in a good kind of way, in my opinion. And, his method made things seem larger than life, it made it feel important.
Then you got Savage. Who was essentially Hogan ramped up to eleven. Savage, thanks in part to his established short fuse and slightly more crazed traits, could turn anything into an intense issue. And, usually he did so without claiming it was the worst thing to ever happen to him. He'd make some metaphor, be the Macho Man, and yet be so sincere & passionate about knocking somebody's head in...you really believed he cared.
Austin. Austin was a rebel with a DTA attitude, yeah, but go back and watch his promos. He was a ball of rage, and he often times flipped the proverbial, and literal, finger at anything anybody said against him. His choice of wording usually made things seem important too and given his character at the time, every fight mattered, because he liked kicking butt. Again, it made what could've been unimportant or filler matches/feuds into important ones.
Rock. Now, he's probably the hardest of the four to pin down. But it's worth noting that in spite of Rock's style being the prototype for what all babyfaces use now...he was funny, he was charismatic. And, unlike alot of the wrestlers, and alot of the writing team's method, Rock allowed himself to look weak. There was so many times, probably more times than otherwise, where Rock was laid out, Rock was banged up, Rock had the odds shifted against him legitimately & was bested by them. While he would joke, worth noting & in doing so addressing his opponent's every insult usually, as soon as things got serious...Rock got serious. As soon as bad things happened to him, Rock would come back & cut a promo full of fire and venom, swearing to tear down whoever wronged him.
That's why people would like to see babyfaces actually emote and react. Because it makes things look important and can create the aura that whatever the match is, whatever the issue is...it's larger than life. A feeling that has slowly diminished over the years in the media.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 22, 2013 12:33:20 GMT -5
I don't need anger, but when you are hyping up a feud for a ppv having the heel go all out in a promo only for the face to laugh it off kind of does the heel a disservice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 13:00:03 GMT -5
I support the "varied responses, but anger is the easiest to understand and easiest one to use to sell a feud" mindset.
Hell, the lack of anger for top feuds really cools them off for me. The number one example is Rock vs. Cena.
The way that all ultimately ended with a hug and The Rock lifting Cena's hand in the air with a "Good job, kid!" People booed because nobody wanted to ****ing see that, not just for The Rock to lose but for The Rock to not slap the piss out of John Cena anyway. I say the main reason Rock/Cena cooled off for me is because WWE booked that bullshit feud in a way practically designed for it to cool off:
Guy Number One: "I respect you, bro."
Guy Number Two: "I respect you too, dawg."
Guy Number One: "I can't believe you made fun of my pants, but I respect you as a person."
Guy Number Two: "I can't believe you made fun of my fans, but you're pretty okay as a person too."
Guy Number One: "While I respect you, let us fight at the predetermined moment with passion and fury."
Guy Number Two: "I know I will be fighting with the burning hatred of many suns because, while I totally respect you, I dislike the way you talked about my fans."
Just...REALLY? The thing that sold me on it, especially at first was you got the impression John Cena and The Rock hated each other. Especially The Rock, whose every movement sold the fact he couldn't frikkin' stand John Cena. Nobody wants to hear that mutual respect shit, I wanna hear about how you can't stand the Fruity Pebble and his idiot fans. I want the Fruity Pebble to respond about how ridiculous your catchphrases are and how you're now a Hollywood creampuff.
I wanted them to be petty. I wanted them to be mean. I wanted them to be pissed off at each other, because dammit The Rock looks like he's going to slap the piss out of John Cena the moment he looks at him, what's going to happen when those dudes finally fight? Leave that "mutual respect" shit for a line you have to say during a feud with Hunner.
As an interesting thing I just got: I'd say that's a big reason why it's hard to get into Diva feuds. They can't or (more likely) aren't allowed to express anger that way. I can't remember the last time seeing a woman get pissed off in the WWE for losing a match. I mean really pissed. Like, Flair kneedropping his own $4,000 shoes, though it could be why that AJ promo was memorable...
|
|
|
Post by sportatorium on Oct 22, 2013 14:10:32 GMT -5
There's a line between something OTT & a well written feud based on anger. Punk & Heyman are angry at each other, but it doesn't manifest itself in hilarious facial expressions & shouting, Heyman messes w/Punk for leaving him & Punk is dead set on getting his hands on Heyman.
Bret Hart's return is a good example of bad anger. I love the Hitman, but he's been shouting everything when he gets a mic.
|
|
|
Post by HollywoodArmbar on Oct 22, 2013 15:05:53 GMT -5
Anger, when done right, makes things seem more real in a way that laughter and brushing off just doesn't.
One example that I can think of is CM Punk the night after he lost the title to The Rock. His music hit, he stormed down to the ring looking FURIOUS, pushing the cameraman out of the way, and it just made the title seem so much more important. Contrast that to someone like Cena losing the title, and going "meh".
-edit-
found a video of his promo, unfortunately doesn't have his entrance to the ring.
|
|
|
Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 15:10:59 GMT -5
There's a line between something OTT & a well written feud based on anger. Punk & Heyman are angry at each other, but it doesn't manifest itself in hilarious facial expressions & shouting, Heyman messes w/Punk for leaving him & Punk is dead set on getting his hands on Heyman. Bret Hart's return is a good example of bad anger. I love the Hitman, but he's been shouting everything when he gets a mic. Which is weird, because he took acting lessons and was excellent at showing emotion the end of his original run with Titan.
|
|
|
Post by wallabylikeyou on Oct 22, 2013 15:32:58 GMT -5
I was talking more from a character perspective. If you just had a company full of angry dudes, it would look pretty forced. Just like in real life, people have different emotions and approach things from different angles. Sure I'd like Bryan to amp the intensity up a few notches, but I don't see what's so bad about him joking around either. That's a pretty realistic response to me, as many people try to do that even if the World is taking a dump on them. I agree, across the board. But on top, anger and revenge is always what's drawn in the end in feuds, not WWE's schlocky attempts to have faces amused rather than furious. Hell, Bryan was more angry in the summer with the self-perceived weak-link stuff than he is for the Authority ruining his life. It's inconsistent writing. He's suddenly not a nutcase with a short fuse, during his most heavily persecuted point? Makes no sense. Yeah it doesn't really make much sense. Bryan had, by WWE standards, a character with pretty good internal consistency from the time he became World Heavyweight Champion up through to the weak link stuff...shouldn't the crazy yelling guy be pretty steamed about being screwed over so many times?
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2013 18:31:16 GMT -5
I was talking more from a character perspective. If you just had a company full of angry dudes, it would look pretty forced. Just like in real life, people have different emotions and approach things from different angles. Sure I'd like Bryan to amp the intensity up a few notches, but I don't see what's so bad about him joking around either. That's a pretty realistic response to me, as many people try to do that even if the World is taking a dump on them. I agree, across the board. But on top, anger and revenge is always what's drawn in the end in feuds, not WWE's schlocky attempts to have faces amused rather than furious. Hell, Bryan was more angry in the summer with the self-perceived weak-link stuff than he is for the Authority ruining his life. It's inconsistent writing. He's suddenly not a nutcase with a short fuse, during his most heavily persecuted point? Makes no sense. because now he's proven that he;s not the weak link.
|
|
|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Oct 22, 2013 19:07:36 GMT -5
I think anger as an emotional response is only as good as the situation which allows for it to be expressed.
Two bad examples:
1) Alberto Del Rio cashes Money in the Bank on CM Punk and wins the WWE title. CM Punk isn't too upset about it because he's used MITB to his advantage. Cena, however, is completely irate. Now given Cena's history with MITB, it makes sense... kind of. But he wasn't the main person affected by the Nash/Del Rio shenanigans, and really didn't have the right to be indignant about Del Rio's win. So we have a circumstance where someone is angry but it doesn't make much sense for them to, at least as angry as Cena was about the matter.
2) John Cena in 2012 cuts a promo in an empty arena evoking the words of "I have to beat you" which Steve Austin said before his 2001 heel turn. Cena fails to beat the Rock. The next night, rather than being angry at the Rock or the fans or himself, he does his 'aw shucks, ya beat me' spiel. Cena being angry about the fact that he botched the biggest moment in his career would have been believable, especially when he was beaten by the guy who brings it 'via satellite'. This would have been a great opportunity for Cena to develop a bit of an edge, for Cena to turn heel, for Cena to logically express his frustration about a less than optimal situation, any sort of response other than "I respect the Rock." Which in itself meant nothing as a statement or character point when the following year Cena would pull out those very arguments, albeit in a whiny manner, "I beat me," because the story dictated for him to behave this way.
Either scenario doesn't really work given the contexts which ought to have brought about appropriate emotional responses. But Cena was booked to reaction 180 degrees in the other direction, because, well, Cena.
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 20:40:37 GMT -5
I agree, across the board. But on top, anger and revenge is always what's drawn in the end in feuds, not WWE's schlocky attempts to have faces amused rather than furious. Hell, Bryan was more angry in the summer with the self-perceived weak-link stuff than he is for the Authority ruining his life. It's inconsistent writing. He's suddenly not a nutcase with a short fuse, during his most heavily persecuted point? Makes no sense. because now he's proven that he;s not the weak link. His original anger was irrational and borderline insane.Him suddenly being calm and rational makes no sense. Insane people just don't become sane in the face of bigger and more unfair obstacles. It's not realistic at all. It's poor writing.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2013 21:12:30 GMT -5
because now he's proven that he;s not the weak link. His original anger was irrational and borderline insane.Him suddenly being calm and rational makes no sense. Insane people just don't become sane in the face of bigger and more unfair obstacles. It's not realistic at all. It's poor writing. people also don't break down quite as easily as they do in WWE. If the swing one way is made easier for ease of narrative then the swing the other way can be done the same
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 21:17:33 GMT -5
His original anger was irrational and borderline insane.Him suddenly being calm and rational makes no sense. Insane people just don't become sane in the face of bigger and more unfair obstacles. It's not realistic at all. It's poor writing. people also don't break down quite as easily as they do in WWE. If the swing one way is made easier for ease of narrative then the swing the other way can be done the same You make no sense. As usual. He went insane after AJ, had to seek months of counseling, became bi-polar with the Yes/No thing, became paranoid of being the weak link out of like thin air, then turned normal, adjusted guy the night after Summer Slam. It is the very definition of inconsistent. There was no transition. A switch went off. It's poor writing.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2013 21:33:45 GMT -5
people also don't break down quite as easily as they do in WWE. If the swing one way is made easier for ease of narrative then the swing the other way can be done the same You make no sense. As usual. He went insane after AJ, had to seek months of counseling, became bi-polar with the Yes/No thing, became paranoid of being the weak link out of like thin air, then turned normal, adjusted guy the night after Summer Slam. It is the very definition of inconsistent. There was no transition. A switch went off. It's poor writing. but the weak link thing was out of thin air too. A switch also went off there. And as I recall Bryan was angry after AJ, but not actually nuts. She screwed him over with the fake wedding and becoming his boss and he was pissed about it. The therapy was unecessary, for the most part, but something he had to do. Actually if they ever do explain why Bryan isn't so bothered by Hunter that can be it. "All you're doing is screwing with my matches. I've worked for my crazy ex-fiancee, who insisted on controlling my life even when I wasn't wrestling."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 21:35:30 GMT -5
I dunno. Seeing as how these guys are always scheming and beating on each other, you'd think some visible anger might not be too much of a stretch.
Not that everyone needs to go around mean mugging all the time, but you shouldn't get jumped by some dude and his flunkies and proceed to come out the following week and cut a lukewarm revenge promo.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2013 21:43:36 GMT -5
I dunno. Seeing as how these guys are always scheming and beating on each other, you'd think some visible anger might not be too much of a stretch. Not that everyone needs to go around mean mugging all the time, but you shouldn't get jumped by some dude and his flunkies and proceed to come out the following week and cut a lukewarm revenge promo. see, it's the fact it's always happening that makes me think they should be less angry. Much like the fans here get sick of things that happen repeatedly some of the things that happen in WWe happen so often things like anger aren't even worth it. Just plot your revenge and get it done
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 21:50:40 GMT -5
You make no sense. As usual. He went insane after AJ, had to seek months of counseling, became bi-polar with the Yes/No thing, became paranoid of being the weak link out of like thin air, then turned normal, adjusted guy the night after Summer Slam. It is the very definition of inconsistent. There was no transition. A switch went off. It's poor writing. but the weak link thing was out of thin air too. A switch also went off there. And as I recall Bryan was angry after AJ, but not actually nuts. She screwed him over with the fake wedding and becoming his boss and he was pissed about it. The therapy was unecessary, for the most part, but something he had to do. Actually if they ever do explain why Bryan isn't so bothered by Hunter that can be it. "All you're doing is screwing with my matches. I've worked for my crazy ex-fiancee, who insisted on controlling my life even when I wasn't wrestling." He was deranged so much at AJ and the loss of his belt that he began going crazy when the fans chanted yes at him, wherein he got right into children's faces and yelled "No!" in return. It was amusing, but it was clearly meant to be a mental break. Normal, adjusted people don't do that. He was then forced to go to anger management by the GM, along with Kane, but never learned to be normal, somehow becoming even more furious in the interim (threatening a child in a goat mask for example). He then simply became a little hairy bi-polar furball who eventually became weirdly paranoid about his perception. Then, bam, he's just a normal guy. Like overnight. The weakest link thing at least was a variation of his already established mental issues. I enjoy his shtick, but they never bothered to ever create a reason (let alone yours) for why he's this normal dude now. You can make up fake headcanon to try and rationalize it, but if they don't ever mention it, its just another lazy inconsistency. Headcanon is not canon. Writers tell stories, not audiences. And I say this as a fan of his work and character.
|
|