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Post by K7 - WC's Crowd Extra on Dec 1, 2006 0:44:36 GMT -5
Today i came across Ric's 'Off The Record' appearence and out of boredom decided to give it a watch.
Now he got onto the subject of Bret Hart being pretty mediocre, as written in his book. Anyway he basically says in general, that you cannot be considered great unless you draw a lot of money. His main argument against Bret was that he drew nothing, then said he himself drew little in WWF and WCW but because he drew well in NWA he's still great. (So 1/3 is great. Tops)
The host then read a quote from an E-mail Hart sent to them in reply to Flair's book. Bret said he drew well enough and wrestled infront of big crowds, and did well since he was thrown the strap at a bad time. He noted that Flair, a lot of the time wrestled infront of empty crowds.
Something i noticed though. He considers Shawn Michaels and Triple H to be great wrestlers, better than Hart. However, fails to mention their poor drawing ability. So for the reason that they're friends, drawing no longer matters...
He mentions Foley being glorified stuntman, as we've all heard before. Interestingly enough, he doesn't consider it criticism, but "the truth".
I think he crossed the line when he went into Owen dying and saying Bret didn't react properly. He shouldn't tread into that territory.
But anyway, the whole point was to question Flair's logic when it comes to considering someone great. So do you think the guy is a kiss ass? Or does he truly believe what he's saying?
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Post by heyguesswhatidid on Dec 1, 2006 0:48:03 GMT -5
He's an overrated kiss ass though he does believe what he says, if that makes sense.
Bret Hart was 10 times the performer than him and drew more money outside of the US that Flair could ever draw.
And I'm an HBK fan, not much of a Bret fan so I'm not defending Bret out of love, just what I believe.
But I am a Foley mark, so maybe I'm biased.
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Post by TripleMerc on Dec 1, 2006 0:51:33 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't care about anything anyone ever said in a book. My interest, (And extent of said..) lies in the ring, all in the ring, and only in the ring.
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The Raven
Hank Scorpio
Where The Raven flies, there's Jeopardy!: Sports Edition
Posts: 5,907 
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Post by The Raven on Dec 1, 2006 0:52:47 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be the first to say:
Not Ricky Martel, NOT THE ROADWARRIORS!! NOT THE FREEBIRDS, NOT THE ROADWARRIORS!!
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Joie De Vivre
Hank Scorpio
There's always next year.
Posts: 5,278
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Post by Joie De Vivre on Dec 1, 2006 0:54:47 GMT -5
His book did reek of politics.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Dec 1, 2006 0:57:03 GMT -5
It's Flair's opinion. I just like him for being Ric Flair, I'm not too worried about it.  That said, something about the Owen/Bret situation obviously bothered him, otherwise he wouldn't talk about it. I think he's allowed to voice his opinion on the matter. We do it all the time. And I don't believe that Ric Flair has ever kissed anyone's ass. He's put up with a lot of garbage without saying anything, but when he says 'HHH is great', I feel like he believes it, and isn't just saying it to keep his job. |
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
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Post by KEJB on Dec 1, 2006 1:03:55 GMT -5
Newsflash
Flair was a draw in WCW, and he was a draw during his brief WWF stint. As NWA champ, he was a greater draw than Hart ever was. Dont take this the wrong way, because I love the hitman, and think he was one of the best ever.
People dont like eachother. It happens. When said people get chances to take a few jabs through a book, they usually do. Dont single out Flair like he is the only one to ever do it.
Flair is the greatest complete talent in wrestling history. Brett is up there too.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Dec 1, 2006 1:06:10 GMT -5
Newsflash Flair was a draw in WCW, and he was a draw during his brief WWF stint. As NWA champ, he was a greater draw than Hart ever was. Dont take this the wrong way, because I love the hitman, and think he was one of the best ever. People dont like eachother. It happens. When said people get chances to take a few jabs through a book, they usually do. Dont single out Flair like he is the only one to ever do it. Flair is the greatest complete talent in wrestling history. Brett is up there too. Well, from what I've read, Ric Flair WAS professional wrestling for a long, long time. They're both guys that we're talking about years after their prime. So in that case, I consider both great. |
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Joie De Vivre
Hank Scorpio
There's always next year.
Posts: 5,278
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Post by Joie De Vivre on Dec 1, 2006 1:07:40 GMT -5
Newsflash Flair was a draw in WCW, and he was a draw during his brief WWF stint. As NWA champ, he was a greater draw than Hart ever was. Dont take this the wrong way, because I love the hitman, and think he was one of the best ever. People dont like eachother. It happens. When said people get chances to take a few jabs through a book, they usually do. Dont single out Flair like he is the only one to ever do it. Flair is the greatest complete talent in wrestling history. Brett is up there too. Well, from what I've read, Ric Flair WAS professional wrestling for a long, long time. They're both guys that we're talking about years after their prime. So in that case, I consider both great. Agreed. |
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KEJB
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,302
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Post by KEJB on Dec 1, 2006 1:09:46 GMT -5
Newsflash Flair was a draw in WCW, and he was a draw during his brief WWF stint. As NWA champ, he was a greater draw than Hart ever was. Dont take this the wrong way, because I love the hitman, and think he was one of the best ever. People dont like eachother. It happens. When said people get chances to take a few jabs through a book, they usually do. Dont single out Flair like he is the only one to ever do it. Flair is the greatest complete talent in wrestling history. Brett is up there too. Well, from what I've read, Ric Flair WAS professional wrestling for a long, long time. They're both guys that we're talking about years after their prime. So in that case, I consider both great. As do I. I just dont get why Flair is taking all this heat for doing what most everyone does; sticking behinf their friends, and taking shots at their enemies. Like someone else said though. Im sure Flair really feels, what he said, or he wouldnt of said it. I honestly cant see how any person who calls themself a wrestling fan , can not have a high amount of Respect for Flair. |
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Post by heyguesswhatidid on Dec 1, 2006 1:14:33 GMT -5
Well, from what I've read, Ric Flair WAS professional wrestling for a long, long time. They're both guys that we're talking about years after their prime. So in that case, I consider both great. As do I. I just dont get why Flair is taking all this heat for doing what most everyone does; sticking behinf their friends, and taking shots at their enemies. Like someone else said though. Im sure Flair really feels, what he said, or he wouldnt of said it. I honestly cant see how any person who calls themself a wrestling fan , can not have a high amount of Respect for Flair. I respect Flair's in ring work, it has been solid for 30 years. But I don't agree with things he said, but that's my opinion, he has his, I have mine. I will always boo Flair when I see him wrestle live, because he'll always be a heel to me but I did mark out when I met him. So maybe I have more respect for him than I let myself believe. |
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Dec 1, 2006 1:14:40 GMT -5
Well, Flair is a 'like him or don't' guy. I don't know anyone who doesn't really care either way about Ric Flair. They either hate him, or think he's awesome. I'm of the latter opinion. That said, a lot of people that see him today and ask each other 'who is that old guy and why is he wrestling?' aren't 'sad' or anything for not having seen him at his best. It was far before my time, obviously, but the wonders of YouTube and the like have allowed me to catch a glimpse of the Nature Boy in his prime. In many respects, he was outclassed by a lot of guys, past and present, in individual things like number of moves known, promo ability, popularity. But he was GREAT at everything he did, and has been doing it for thirty plus years. So, in conclusion, wooo. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 1, 2006 1:16:11 GMT -5
WOOO! insert custom made comment here. Good grief I love that video.
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Post by TripleMerc on Dec 1, 2006 1:41:06 GMT -5
Looks like I'll be the first to say: Not Ricky Martel, NOT THE ROADWARRIORS!! NOT THE FREEBIRDS, NOT THE ROADWARRIORS!! That's the World Champion! |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 1, 2006 1:44:42 GMT -5
He can't help it cuz he's custom made.
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The Raven
Hank Scorpio
Where The Raven flies, there's Jeopardy!: Sports Edition
Posts: 5,907
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Post by The Raven on Dec 1, 2006 1:51:06 GMT -5
Bret Hart can't Woo! dance all night long.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Dec 1, 2006 2:26:29 GMT -5
I strongly question whether Ric believes anything he says any more. The guy had a lot of problems in WCW and felt he was worthless for a while. Thus, when the Clique and Vince "saved" him, he naturally felt a (in my opinion misguided) sense of loyalty to them. That's most likely the reason why he tried to bury Hart--he was in conflict with Ric's supposed saviors.
As for Foley, that's a little different. Believe it or not, it's partly due to Bischoff. Think about it: Ric Flair had to endure constant criticism and abuse by Bischoff--criticism that he had to take. After he regained his confidence, he likely didn't want to ever suffer like that again and when he found out about Foley's benign critique of his booking ability, he overreacted. Instead of holding it in, he released it in the worst possible way.
Saying these things about Flair gives me no pleasure. I will praise him for all he's done for wrestling, but at the same time he doesn't get to escape criticism--from his peers (wrestlers) or fans. I respect what he's done, but I haven't respected what he's said for a long time. Granted, much of this is just my opinion, but I've tried to look at the situation rationally based on what I know. I do question Flair's use of logic and reasoning and believe that many times he lets his emotions get the best of them and he seems to hold grudges, which is very unhealthy.
On the plus side, at least he admitted he wasn't a draw as WWF Champion. Not that there's any shame in that. After all, no one in the Clique drew as WWF Champion either and Flair is friends with two of the members.
Since this thread might get ugly soon, I think I'll have this post be my first and last comment on the subject.
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Post by K7 - WC's Crowd Extra on Dec 1, 2006 2:33:45 GMT -5
I strongly question whether Ric believes anything he says any more. The guy had a lot of problems in WCW and felt he was worthless for a while. Thus, when the Clique and Vince "saved" him, he naturally felt a (in my opinion misguided) sense of loyalty to them. That's most likely the reason why he tried to bury Hart--he was in conflict with Ric's supposed saviors. As for Foley, that's a little different. Believe it or not, it's partly due to Bischoff. Think about it: Ric Flair had to endure constant criticism and abuse by Bischoff--criticism that he had to take. After he regained his confidence, he likely didn't want to ever suffer like that again and when he found out about Foley's benign critique of his booking ability, he overreacted. Instead of holding it in, he released it in the worst possible way. Saying these things about Flair gives me no pleasure. I will praise him for all he's done for wrestling, but at the same time he doesn't get to escape criticism--from his peers (wrestlers) or fans. I respect what he's done, but I haven't respected what he's said for a long time. Granted, much of this is just my opinion, but I've tried to look at the situation rationally based on what I know. i do question Flair's use of logic and reasoning and believe that many times he lets his emotions get the best of them and he seems to hold grudges, which is very unhealthy. On the plus side, at least he admitted he wasn't a draw as WWF Champion. Not that there's any shame in that. After all, no one in the Clique drew as WWF Champion either and Flair is friends with two of the members. Since this thread might get ugly soon, I think I'll have this post be my first and last comment on the subject. Good post. *claps* |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2006 4:36:28 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I love Flair and I will always love Flair, but for anyone and everyone who's seen the Ric Flair interview on Off The Record, did it not seem like Flair was declaring his stance on certain subjects and then thinking about the reasoning afterward? Especially with the Owen/Bret thing it seemed like he was just coming up with his reasoning for his beliefs on the fly.
I love Flair and I love Bret Hart but when Bret Hart states his opinion on matters especially related to this beef between him and Flair he just comes off as a whole lot more sincere, Flair's take on some things he said on OTR just seemed very artificial to me.
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Post by K7 - WC's Crowd Extra on Dec 1, 2006 5:16:52 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I love Flair and I will always love Flair, but for anyone and everyone who's seen the Ric Flair interview on Off The Record, did it not seem like Flair was declaring his stance on certain subjects and then thinking about the reasoning afterward? Especially with the Owen/Bret thing it seemed like he was just coming up with his reasoning for his beliefs on the fly. I love Flair and I love Bret Hart but when Bret Hart states his opinion on matters especially related to this beef between him and Flair he just comes off as a whole lot more sincere, Flair's take on some things he said on OTR just seemed very artificial to me. I think he said, "I'm entitled to my opinion" or something similar. But seriously, why go there? |
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