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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 4, 2013 21:19:29 GMT -5
Yeah, passing up talented wrestlers because you consider them "too athletic" is a good thing. At least in Morrison's case, it still worked out. But yeah, is there anything to show how good a job Stephanie did in Creative? It'll be interesting to see if there's a noticeable difference. The biggest success she's credited with is hearing this guy that was on the chopping block do something on a bus, telling him to incorporate it into his character, and writing his character around it. It worked out pretty f***ing well for him, and the WWE. She's the one credited with hearing Cena freestyle, and changing him from his original white meat face character to a rapper.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Dec 4, 2013 21:37:05 GMT -5
Stephanie can still control creative through her puppet of a husband. Brilliant plan. Seriously, though...I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't know, I trust this guy. I do too. I can't believe that I forgot he existed. Clearly, my subconscious didn't.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 21:38:37 GMT -5
At least in Morrison's case, it still worked out. But yeah, is there anything to show how good a job Stephanie did in Creative? It'll be interesting to see if there's a noticeable difference. The biggest success she's credited with is hearing this guy that was on the chopping block do something on a bus, telling him to incorporate it into his character, and writing his character around it. It worked out pretty f***ing well for him, and the WWE. She's the one credited with hearing Cena freestyle, and changing him from his original white meat face character to a rapper. That unfortunately begs the question why he didn't stay a rapper? I love Cena, but to this day I don't believe he would get half the amount of hate he does if he kept his rap battle promos.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Dec 4, 2013 23:58:44 GMT -5
It's amazing how much hate Kevin Dunn gets from strangers basing their opinion entirely on nothing. I don't know much about this guy, but he seems to have been around for way too long. Thejob like he has for WWE needs change every several years to keep the product fresh. No wonder WWE from a production and format sense, minus electronics and all, feels the same since 1995.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 5, 2013 0:29:24 GMT -5
So creepy. He looks like the Salt Vampire: You said this last year! He looks like the Salt Vampire from Star Trek. I, for one, am over Dunn. That being said... I do hope that Triple H starts phasing himself off of WWE TV. I'm really tired of seeing the people who write the show ON the show (Vince, Stephanie, Dixie, Russo, Heyman, Jarrett, etc.). It's not like Vince Gilligan or J.J. Abrams made themselves onscreen regulars on Breaking Bad or Lost.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,573
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Post by Renslayer on Dec 5, 2013 1:04:28 GMT -5
It's amazing how much hate Kevin Dunn gets from strangers basing their opinion entirely on nothing. Frankly all you need to know is what he looks like This is not a man to be trusted. He looks like a douche.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 1:15:07 GMT -5
It's amazing how much hate Kevin Dunn gets from strangers basing their opinion entirely on nothing. He's the moron who decided to cut to the crowd in the middle of backstage segments. For that he deserves every bit of the hate he gets.
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Post by wwefan71080 on Dec 5, 2013 1:58:34 GMT -5
Does anyone think that there may be more of an old school feel to the shows next year with Triple H as head booker
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 5, 2013 2:00:17 GMT -5
It's amazing how much hate Kevin Dunn gets from strangers basing their opinion entirely on nothing. He's the moron who decided to cut to the crowd in the middle of backstage segments. For that he deserves every bit of the hate he gets. I actually like the crowd cuts. Weren't people complaining about characters "discussing their secret evil plans in front of the camera"? The crowd cuts acknowledge that the backstage segments are part of the show.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 2:07:04 GMT -5
He's the moron who decided to cut to the crowd in the middle of backstage segments. For that he deserves every bit of the hate he gets. I actually like the crowd cuts. Weren't people complaining about characters "discussing their secret evil plans in front of the camera"? The crowd cuts acknowledge that the backstage segments are part of the show. Honestly, that never bothered me in the first place (well, unless it's something like the time MNM kidnapped Trish and tied her to a chair then Melina kicked her in the head, and the cameraman just stood there filming her unconscious on the floor), but they just completely break up the flow of things to me. It's an awkward, unnatural angle that really serves no point except to demonstrate how the crowd's always - always - just sitting on their hands bored out of their minds.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 5, 2013 2:25:22 GMT -5
At least in Morrison's case, it still worked out. But yeah, is there anything to show how good a job Stephanie did in Creative? It'll be interesting to see if there's a noticeable difference. The biggest success she's credited with is hearing this guy that was on the chopping block do something on a bus, telling him to incorporate it into his character, and writing his character around it. It worked out pretty f***ing well for him, and the WWE. She's the one credited with hearing Cena freestyle, and changing him from his original white meat face character to a rapper. Even with the big success of Cena, the question still remains. With most head writers- we can see what their "style" is after a short time. By contrast, with Stephanie McMahon, we've seen her as head of creative for 13 years of television- but can anyone say, distinctively, what Stephanie's booking style is? During her entire reign, she's been protected to the point where it's not hard to say anything on WWE television was either credited to someone more popular or blamed on someone more hated than her.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 5, 2013 2:29:30 GMT -5
Their whole problem is the hate of the W word.
Wrestling.
These days they do everything but. They're not wrestling they're...disney. They aint wrestlers they're...sports entertainers.
No...it's wrestling. You're producing a non-wrestling show for a wrestling audience and guess what? They don't like it.
Screwy finishes, storylines that make no sense and all the rest of it, the fans couldn't give a shit. All this "OMG, did you know what we got most people jerking off to the Divas segment than to any animated character since the first Tomb Raider?" or "Did you know our overpaid, stuck in the year 1999 TV executives get more money than TV executives of CBS, NBC or Fox" or "Did you know that we were the most socially active show beginning with 'M' that took place on a Monday between the hours of 3pm and midnight?"
...everything to distract from what they are which is a wrestling show.
This hatred for the core purpose of the entire business combined with blind nepotism has lead to this situation today.
They need a clear out. New producers, new writers. People who want to try something new and fresh rather than stick to the in-house style guide where everything and everyone has to look a certain way, everyone has to be goofy and for the love of God don't turn down a single idiotic idea because if it comes from a Hollywood writer it HAS TO be genius.
Vince needs to cool that boner he's got for the movies. He isn't Walt Disney, he isn't Steven Spielberg - he's a wrestling promoter and fans who pay this SOB $40 a month to follow his product all told deserve some respect and deserve to have a product catered to them rather than what we have now which is everyone treating wrestling like it's a fart nobody wants to own up to.
"Oh we're not wrestling look we do...music and look we do...movies and....hey here's some comedy"
It's like watching a circus act who can swallow a condom full of milk and regurgitate it out of his ass in 30 seconds, coming out and trying to read poetry or play the piano. Nobody wants to see him do that, they want to see him do the trick they've paid to see him to. Similarly people go to WWE events and pay to watch their PPVs because they want to see a wrestling show. So show them some god damn respect and give them one. Give them an excuse to come back. Don't take their money and screw them constantly. Watching the WWE these days is like tantric sex only the other person has had a stroke and died and you're stood there with a boner thinking 'Wtf?'
They have guys like the Big Show who they make come out and dance and be goofy. Not because there's any sense or money to be made from it but because they think "Television has comedy...we're television, we should do comedy"
NO! It doesn't work like that. Stop trying to be so damned desperate to prove you can do anything but wrestling. Just...stop it. Have angles, have storylines but at least show that more than a days worth of thought has gone into them.
Producers that hate the business, creative team headed by someone qualified for the position in last name only and an owner that's so out of touch he'll need a barge pole to be relevant in 1994.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 5, 2013 2:33:02 GMT -5
This I think is a positive. The problem with Stephanie as head of creative was, you can't fire your daughter. So if you move her, maybe there could be some better issues. Though Vinnie Mac is in control, and he walks the fine line between genius and insane, which is why he has either the greatest or worst ideas ever.
It's weird that this company has Paul Heyman and Dutch Mantell employed and aren't used in creative. That's like hiring Shakespeare to act.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 5, 2013 2:40:48 GMT -5
Their whole problem is the hate of the W word. Wrestling. These days they do everything but. They're not wrestling they're...disney. They aint wrestlers they're...sports entertainers. No...it's wrestling. You're producing a non-wrestling show for a wrestling audience and guess what? They don't like it. Screwy finishes, storylines that make no sense and all the rest of it, the fans couldn't give a shit. All this "OMG, did you know what we got most people jerking off to the Divas segment than to any animated character since the first Tomb Raider?" or "Did you know our overpaid, stuck in the year 1999 TV executives get more money than TV executives of CBS, NBC or Fox" or "Did you know that we were the most socially active show beginning with 'M' that took place on a Monday between the hours of 3pm and midnight?" ...everything to distract from what they are which is a wrestling show. This hatred for the core purpose of the entire business combined with blind nepotism has lead to this situation today. They need a clear out. New producers, new writers. People who want to try something new and fresh rather than stick to the in-house style guide where everything and everyone has to look a certain way, everyone has to be goofy and for the love of God don't turn down a single idiotic idea because if it comes from a Hollywood writer it HAS TO be genius. Vince needs to cool that boner he's got for the movies. He isn't Walt Disney, he isn't Steven Spielberg - he's a wrestling promoter and fans who pay this SOB $40 a month to follow his product all told deserve some respect and deserve to have a product catered to them rather than what we have now which is everyone treating wrestling like it's a fart nobody wants to own up to. "Oh we're not wrestling look we do...music and look we do...movies and....hey here's some comedy" It's like watching a circus act who can swallow a condom full of milk and regurgitate it out of his ass in 30 seconds, coming out and trying to read poetry or play the piano. Nobody wants to see him do that, they want to see him do the trick they've paid to see him to. Similarly people go to WWE events and pay to watch their PPVs because they want to see a wrestling show. So show them some god damn respect and give them one. Give them an excuse to come back. Don't take their money and screw them constantly. Watching the WWE these days is like tantric sex only the other person has had a stroke and died and you're stood there with a boner thinking 'Wtf?' They have guys like the Big Show who they make come out and dance and be goofy. Not because there's any sense or money to be made from it but because they think "Television has comedy...we're television, we should do comedy" NO! It doesn't work like that. Stop trying to be so damned desperate to prove you can do anything but wrestling. Just...stop it. Have angles, have storylines but at least show that more than a days worth of thought has gone into them. Producers that hate the business, creative team headed by someone qualified for the position in last name only and an owner that's so out of touch he'll need a barge pole to be relevant in 1994. I don't think WWE is in denial of being a wrestling company. I think they just desire to be MORE than JUST a wrestling company. All of those movies, reality shows, etc. are side projects to the wrestling product. Their movies usually star or have cameo appearances by their top wrestlers. If they were in denial of being a wrestling promotion, they would put more focus on those things and less on the in-ring product. Things like Total Divas would take precedence over Randy Orton and John Cena.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 5, 2013 2:48:19 GMT -5
Their whole problem is the hate of the W word. Wrestling. These days they do everything but. They're not wrestling they're...disney. They aint wrestlers they're...sports entertainers. No...it's wrestling. You're producing a non-wrestling show for a wrestling audience and guess what? They don't like it. Screwy finishes, storylines that make no sense and all the rest of it, the fans couldn't give a shit. All this "OMG, did you know what we got most people jerking off to the Divas segment than to any animated character since the first Tomb Raider?" or "Did you know our overpaid, stuck in the year 1999 TV executives get more money than TV executives of CBS, NBC or Fox" or "Did you know that we were the most socially active show beginning with 'M' that took place on a Monday between the hours of 3pm and midnight?" ...everything to distract from what they are which is a wrestling show. This hatred for the core purpose of the entire business combined with blind nepotism has lead to this situation today. They need a clear out. New producers, new writers. People who want to try something new and fresh rather than stick to the in-house style guide where everything and everyone has to look a certain way, everyone has to be goofy and for the love of God don't turn down a single idiotic idea because if it comes from a Hollywood writer it HAS TO be genius. Vince needs to cool that boner he's got for the movies. He isn't Walt Disney, he isn't Steven Spielberg - he's a wrestling promoter and fans who pay this SOB $40 a month to follow his product all told deserve some respect and deserve to have a product catered to them rather than what we have now which is everyone treating wrestling like it's a fart nobody wants to own up to. "Oh we're not wrestling look we do...music and look we do...movies and....hey here's some comedy" It's like watching a circus act who can swallow a condom full of milk and regurgitate it out of his ass in 30 seconds, coming out and trying to read poetry or play the piano. Nobody wants to see him do that, they want to see him do the trick they've paid to see him to. Similarly people go to WWE events and pay to watch their PPVs because they want to see a wrestling show. So show them some god damn respect and give them one. Give them an excuse to come back. Don't take their money and screw them constantly. Watching the WWE these days is like tantric sex only the other person has had a stroke and died and you're stood there with a boner thinking 'Wtf?' They have guys like the Big Show who they make come out and dance and be goofy. Not because there's any sense or money to be made from it but because they think "Television has comedy...we're television, we should do comedy" NO! It doesn't work like that. Stop trying to be so damned desperate to prove you can do anything but wrestling. Just...stop it. Have angles, have storylines but at least show that more than a days worth of thought has gone into them. Producers that hate the business, creative team headed by someone qualified for the position in last name only and an owner that's so out of touch he'll need a barge pole to be relevant in 1994. I don't think WWE is in denial of being a wrestling company. I think they just desire to be MORE than JUST a wrestling company. All of those movies, reality shows, etc. are side projects to the wrestling product. Their movies usually star or have cameo appearances by their top wrestlers. If they were in denial of being a wrestling promotion, they would put more focus on those things and less on the in-ring product. Things like Total Divas would take precedence over Randy Orton and John Cena. They're in total denial of it. How many people have we heard from over the years who have left who have said that everyone there responds to the idea of the being a 'wrestling' show like someone would if you just brought a bacon sandwich to a bar mitzvah? They hate it. They even took time to remove the word from the company name. They're desperate not to be a wrestling company. They always have been. Vince said himself, he's not in the wrestling business,he's in the entertainment business. Not that the two are mutually exclusive but it's been obvious for years that they're a company that rather resents the fact that wrestling is their core product. So instead they try and fill it with anything but. Promos, skits, dancing, comedy, pillow fights, musical chairs, movies, XFL, body building...and much more besides. There is a reason why the last well thought out and well-executed feud is something we all have to grope in our memory banks for. It's because the core product gets half-assed interest from those responsible for creating it. They're not thinking 'how can we get this to work to sell more tickets and spike buys?' they're desperately trying to think of ways to get credibility as a mainstream television show. It's like if the writers of Frasier decided "we're not just a comedy show, we're on TV" and started randomly adding other elements to the show that made the 'funny' take a back seat and rather than great, amusing dialouge we had a car chase, reality TV stars and other elements of other TV shows in there. That's where WWE are. They've got a core product they're desperate to diverge from.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 5, 2013 2:58:56 GMT -5
I don't think WWE is in denial of being a wrestling company. I think they just desire to be MORE than JUST a wrestling company. All of those movies, reality shows, etc. are side projects to the wrestling product. Their movies usually star or have cameo appearances by their top wrestlers. If they were in denial of being a wrestling promotion, they would put more focus on those things and less on the in-ring product. Things like Total Divas would take precedence over Randy Orton and John Cena. They're in total denial of it. How many people have we heard from over the years who have left who have said that everyone there responds to the idea of the being a 'wrestling' show like someone would if you just brought a bacon sandwich to a bar mitzvah? They hate it. They even took time to remove the word from the company name. They're desperate not to be a wrestling company. They always have been. Vince said himself, he's not in the wrestling business,he's in the entertainment business. Not that the two are mutually exclusive but it's been obvious for years that they're a company that rather resents the fact that wrestling is their core product. So instead they try and fill it with anything but. Promos, skits, dancing, comedy, pillow fights, musical chairs, movies, XFL, body building...and much more besides. I just think that if WWE really wanted to be an entertainment company that badly, they would just wash their hands of the wrestling aspect altogether. They'd either sell off or rent out the ring and the performance center to other promotions, and then fire all of the wrestlers. Also, WWE is STILL World Wrestling Entertainment. I've heard the words "wrestle", "wrestling", and "wrestler(s)" on WWE programming as recently as this year.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 5, 2013 3:05:25 GMT -5
Honestly it doesn't matter, Stephanie is going to outright own the WWE one day, the joke is on us. She'll be the sexiest person in charge since Jack Tunney.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 5, 2013 3:26:08 GMT -5
Not much has changed
Stephanie was never involved in anything remotely creative to begin with.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 5, 2013 7:04:40 GMT -5
This I think is a positive. The problem with Stephanie as head of creative was, you can't fire your daughter. So if you move her, maybe there could be some better issues. Though Vinnie Mac is in control, and he walks the fine line between genius and insane, which is why he has either the greatest or worst ideas ever. It's weird that this company has Paul Heyman and Dutch Mantell employed and aren't used in creative. That's like hiring Shakespeare to act. Mantell is doing fine as the Real Americans' manager. And Paul is on record saying he doesn't want to be a writer again. In related news, according to that article, the current head writer's name is Eddie Feldmann. Let's see what he does now with Hunter in charge.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 8:29:13 GMT -5
For some reason I can see Triple H yelling CARELESSNESS at his writers if they make a typo or a grammatical error. I can see Triple H ripping up the best booked wrestling script of all time and telling the writer to "start over and fix your CARELESSNESS mistakes" when Triple H really means his punctuation, but the writer thinks his script sucks so he creates something terrible instead with no grammatical errors.
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