Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Mar 18, 2014 18:03:15 GMT -5
If there is a second name to add to the "I'd swear on my life he's Town" list, it is Waffel. Still typing from phone, so on laptop later, my page by page analysis going all the way back is going to center on B Natural and Jazzman. And I will tell you. The B Natural stuff is all too good to be true. In fact, the most incriminating thing I have heard from him the whole game was just now... "I went after Dark Myau because.." The reasoning given is the exact same reasoning that would've made me a target over Dark Torgeddon/Myau. It should've been pegasus that B Natural killed on a whim. Because people have dissected me to death (which has been almost entirely Mafia led) and the whim kill should've been me by that logic. B, you are awesome. You fooled me. I bought it. It made sense. But the logic here in late game doesn't pan out. And what's more, killing on a whim like this in the late game, which puts us one more person closer to termination and in danger of losing? Why? Mostly the reason I ask is because where were those vigilante kills and rationales elsewhere in the early game? At this time, I would like B Natural to list every target he made each night of the game. Because I recall you saying at one point you took the night off for fear of hurting the team. (I have to go look. I think I remember something like that. If it didn't happen, I'll admit it later after I go hunting for it.) It's just a request and just trying to buckle down and figure out what the right call is. I need your night by night action list. This will help. For me, I'm down to Jazzman and B Natural. No way Hawk or Waffel are Mafia. Just no way. Hm...if I'm as confirmed Town as you think I am, I've got something that you ain't gonna like hearing. Maybe I f***ed up, maybe there's an off-chance I'm hitting on something. Last night, I blocked you. I was thinking that maybe Hawk might be on to something about you and I figured "What the hell? I'll give it a try." What I was thinking that if a Night Kill didn't happen, we'd have our guy dead to rights, that guy being you. Now at first I thought since there was a Night Kill, I was wrong, and I botched yet another Blocking. However, since the kill was Mr. B's doing, I'm thinking something else entirely now. Plus, the way you just happened to be there for the lynch vote last Phase, requirement or not, is setting off little alarm bells inside my head. I'm about 75% sure that I'm totally wrong here, but there's still that 25%... I'm a fair man, so I won't jump to any conclusions without hearing you defend yourself.
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Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Mar 18, 2014 18:04:49 GMT -5
EBWOP: And now Jazzman's last post has even more alarm bells going off. Hm....
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 18, 2014 23:03:18 GMT -5
As soon as I can get on my laptop, let me make my case with quotes galore. My plan is to do it tomorrow. The laptop screen is busted and I have to hook it into TV for me to see what I need to see on the screen. Also, as can be confirmed by Señor Tiger in Fan Idol thread, I've been on the road and replying via phone. Not as convenient.
B Natural, you still haven't given me your list of night actions throughout the game. What did you do?
At this stage, B Natural is hanging himself with his strategy. If I get lynched, which I'm open for, please hear me: that leaves four people, then three after he night kills. When it's B Natural and any of the two of you left, win this for the rest of us because two versus one and town wins there. You see, my lynch and then a subsequent night kill is actually B Natural's demise. After that, Waffel can confirm he roleblocked me, but B Natural cannot explain away why Dark Torgeddon/Myau was night killed. Either way, the godfather's gambit after being called out is a bad strategy. His only way out is to convince Waffel to go with Jazzman for a lynch and then eliminate Waffel during night phase; during final day phase, he and Hawk then vote to lynch me and Mafia wins.
Likewise, what would my gambit be in going after an Natural if I was the godfather? The scenario would be this: I get my way and lynch B Natural. Of course, Waffel would roleblock like he did the night before and in that scenario, nothing would happen. Jazzman, Waffel, and Hawk (THREE townies left) would then have Peg dead to rights.
Um, given the overboldness of my play and the willingness to try to take the reins openly in the game since early early on, I wouldn't exactly say that's Godfather play. PLUS, I've led headhunts for convicted Mafia. PLUS, if I was "clever" as a Mafioso, it would be pretty contradictory to see me set myself up for failure. Why not night kill Waffel earlier? I'm mistake prone, but that's just effin' stupid. My only survival amid controversy would be to take out a guy that could wreck my strategy.
Flip side to the Waffel survival, B Natural had to have Waffel as an accomplice in the voting. And up to this point, me. But B Natural never had to worry about controversy because it was only recently brought up. And by Casey Jones, no less. The guy was locked in the whole game. And I can honestly say he helped the town way more than me. Great reads the whole game.
Either way, lynched now or allowed to make it through tonight, I will be the one B Natural is cussing in the aftergame when the Town wins. Because the above description of what he needs to happen is exactly right. Going after me and everyone seeing the post-lynch flip is his demise. Or, we do it now and he cusses me for being a part of it.
All this is said before I have a chance to go through and state my case using previous days' posts. The last few posts have been the most damning though. If he stuck to his guns and kept trying to play me and Waffel and go after Jazzman, he might've pulled this off. (And still might if can somehow turn the tide and get Jazz lynched. The numbers say no, it would seem.)
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 18, 2014 23:48:01 GMT -5
Sorry about that. Here are all of my Night Actions.
Night 1: Targeted Asher (At the time I felt like Mafia was going to set up either Cage or Asher regardless, so I decided to avoid that whole scenario) Night 2: Targeted Nobody (We had taken down two scum that day. I felt no reason to risk losing our advantage that night by taking out someone I wasn't sure about.) Night 3: Targeted Mason (Again, felt suspicious about him for whatever reason. It did end up revealing the existence of Masons so in the end not the worst move to make.) Night 4: Targetted Shiro Nemanji (The Legend) (Again, felt suspicious about the guy. May have inadvertently lead to him quitting the game among many other factors the following day.) Night 5: Targeted Lodirulz (I couldn't read Lodi throughout the game and wanted to find out where he stood. Make sure he was truly out for the good of town. Nailed this one as you yourself said.) Night 6: Targeted SnS (Because he asked me to. Simple as that.) Night 7: Targeted Dark Torgaddon (WCW Champion Dark Myau) (Again, I felt something suspicious about him. And just like with Waffel I'm not going to let a simple claim stop me from investigating them unless there's solid proof to support them.)
You say my strategy is bad, and yes, I agree... if I were Godfather, it would be a horrendous strategy, an end-game strategy that would make any scum veteran worth his salt shake his head, but I'm not. Furthermore I have nothing to lose at this point if I get lynched.
Why would I come all this way, make myself out to be a hero to the town, and one of the few people everybody trusted only to undo it all just when the game is almost over? Why would I do that if I were Godfather? It's insane. Anybody whose played with me knows that I would never be that transparent if I were scum.
And again, why has nobody come out to claim against me? If I'm not who I seem to be then why in the world would I take such a stupid risk? Why would I fakeclaim a role like the vigilante? That's suicide, man! If I were going to fake a claim I would use a role that was much more believable.
If you can prove that someone else is actually the vigilante and I'm just a pretender, then I will gladly vote for myself when it comes time for today's lynch. But trust me when I say that you're better off looking at somebody else right now. Because we're so close right now and fingering me at this point will just give the scum more breathing room.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 19, 2014 9:31:37 GMT -5
Good response. (Jazzman knows not to buy into my late game pressure-packed "you're the guy we're after" bait.) I do this every game and it helps not only me, but other town members gauge is least likely scum. So yeah. There goes my annual "you're it!" mini-tirade.
When we are down to two candidates or three, I do this same crap. Every time it leads me to the last guy. The trouble is that teammates don't ever follow through and then they do the " turns out peg was playing our enemies and not us" routine in the post-game. I'm getting tired of letdowns like that. I'm too vested in this game at this stage for my people to screw this up.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 20, 2014 20:01:08 GMT -5
Agreed, We've come too far for things to fall apart now.
Jazzman, I have a few questions I'd like to ask you. Feel free to answer them if you want, but if you'd prefer not to then that's fine.
1: Why did you help lead the vote for Wolf Haley? Did you have a feeling that he was hiding something or was it just intuition on your part?
2. So far you've been oddly consistent in how you've voted. You voted to lynch three town members and two scum. And then some days you chose not to vote at all. The only scum you didn't vote that was up for a lycnh was The Legend. So I have to ask why didn't you pursue that vote for him, especially when all that evidence piled up at his feet?
I think that's plenty for now, but I might have a few more once I've had more time to formulate my thoughts. But after looking over things, I think I'm starting to figure things out a little more.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 20, 2014 21:41:58 GMT -5
Vote: pegasuswarrior
My cause is just and right.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Mar 20, 2014 22:06:42 GMT -5
Agreed, We've come too far for things to fall apart now. Jazzman, I have a few questions I'd like to ask you. Feel free to answer them if you want, but if you'd prefer not to then that's fine. 1: Why did you help lead the vote for Wolf Haley? Did you have a feeling that he was hiding something or was it just intuition on your part? 2. So far you've been oddly consistent in how you've voted. You voted to lynch three town members and two scum. And then some days you chose not to vote at all. The only scum you didn't vote that was up for a lycnh was The Legend. So I have to ask why didn't you pursue that vote for him, especially when all that evidence piled up at his feet? I think that's plenty for now, but I might have a few more once I've had more time to formulate my thoughts. But after looking over things, I think I'm starting to figure things out a little more. Wolf was a total gut play on my part... something smelt rotten in Denmark so I moved. Reason I didn't vote Legend was simple, let's go back to what my opinion of the matter with him was. Ya know what, this is the f***ing gutsiest play I've ever seen in a Mafia. Replace the word gutsiest with the word bitchiest, whiniest, most damaging to the spirit of the game or lamest, and you get my opinion on the matter. I'd say more but I'd surely be banned. I didn't want to give the f***ing guy the satisfaction of earning my vote to lynch him for being such a self-spoiled a-hole. Is it petty sure, but you guys were going to hammer to the wall, what good would have my vote done? SO there you go right now, and what's deadline on this, SD HST?
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Mar 20, 2014 22:08:26 GMT -5
EBWOP
Couple typos in there. Throw a question mark after petty, capitalize Sure, and add a him after hammer and before to in the last line.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 21, 2014 19:35:24 GMT -5
I got on the laptop just now to go back through and employ the strategy of pretending B Natural IS Mafia. (I do this EVERY time in late game when I have a shortlist.) I found a couple of instances that would be a Godfather's comments, but I will say that up until lately, I don't find a mess of comments that pegs him as THE guy. Not just yet. I stopped after Day Phase/Night Phase 2. Usually, even with just those two days, in a position where the Godfather would have no idea of what was about to unfold over the course of the game, there is something to condemn the player. Like I said, I have a a couple of things, but I think B Natural--IF he's the Godfather--played it pretty perfectly because I can't definitively say, "Gotcha!"
Jazzman is a curious case. Here's the thing about him ... I've been silently backing him this whole game. I cannot convince myself that he is anything but Town. And here's the thing about him being unclaimed--he plays the game the right way: he won't reveal his role because that's just not how the game is played. I've never seen him reveal a role. He's just that player. If his gameplay isn't enough to convince townies, he's the kind that just says "Eff it; you guys are just stupid." So, that being said, I just have had a really strong Town read on him, PLUS I know enough of Jazzman to say to myself, "Don't be stupid, Peg. Don't chase him and end up being stupid."
And that is why I want to Snoop his locker room. It's the coward's way out. But if I find a weapon or something, I'll at least have something to back myself up.
That being said, I think Waffel did the right thing; I just wish he wouldve done his roleblock of me way earlier so we could confirm the nightkill is still happening. As it happens, it's ill-timed because I really really wanted to snoop Jazzman's locker room last night.
I will try to pursue further on B Natural if need be. I'm being clear: for me, it's between him and Jazzman. B Natural's story behind his nightkill and his buttering up and supporting Townfolk that were smack dab in the middle of controversy (me and BoilerRoomBrawler, for example) is classic Mafia strategy. They don't try to lynch innocents until desperation time. They say, "Youre doing good, youre doing good" to the controversial Townpeople so that when they get lynched and flip, they can be the good guys who say "I told you so." Right now, one of the clenchers is his choice of kills. Choosing Dark Torgeddon over me makes no sense.
ALL that being said, do I think B Natural is THAT great a player? I dunno. I haven't seen him play enough. But, it would take mega mega mega good play to throw me off this long.
In short, I'm divided.
And of course, then there's Jazzman. And I'll never live down being one of the "idiots" if I launched a vote in his direction and he ends up Town.
I'm scratching my head constantly. I'm not completely convinced that a "recruitment" hasn't taken place. If there is no Godfather, it could very well have been a "Jack-of-All-trades" move from the deceased Mafia. And obviously, there would be two obvious candidates for that recruitment still left. (I don't buy that entirely, but I'm just stream of consciousness thinking aloud so I can go full disclosure.) I'm baffled. And I KNOW this is the night to make a move that cannot be screwed up. If B Natural were to be lynched, I'd Snoop Jazzman's locker room, no questions asked. If Jazzman were lynched, I'm positive I'd find a killer's weapon in B Natural's locker room (because he's either Vigilante like he said or Godfather, so finding a weapon wouldn't tell me jack), so I'd have to check out Waffel OR Hawk and clear them for my own wild red herring idea about recruitment. Option A (B Natural lynch and Snoop Jazzman if B is Town) just seems the most logical in the position I'm in, and I think that's why I'm telling myself to man up and pursue B natural. Even if wrong, I get the locker room Snoop to try to figure it out.
At this stage, I'm more reliant on what Waffel thinks and just willing to listen to what he makes of all this (assuming he has caught up with the reading).
Also, just because ... Jazzman, what about the logic up there? You're really good at picking things apart. Are you seeing anything that I'm not? I mean, in terms of blatantly missed clues or indicators I'm overlooking? Is there a hole in the way I see any of this endgame logistics? I never thought we'd get this far into the game without having already secured a win. I'm mad, because it seems to be another "Here we go again" flop on the part of Town. (And I'M just as guilty, because I'm not sold on B Natural or Jazzman and I should have one of them figured out.)
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Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Mar 21, 2014 19:50:02 GMT -5
The thing is, I don't know how to play this at all. Hawk's been established Town, Jazz is still a total enigma, Mr. B is either our the guy who'll save us or the guy who'll end us, I've got nothing one way or the other on Peg...as much as this is a dumb move this late in the game, I've got to go with my gut here.
VOTE: MR. B NATURAL HAS A DINOSAUR
If I'm wrong on this, Town can have my head next Day Phase. GM's honor.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Mar 21, 2014 20:04:36 GMT -5
My vote and reason for it, coming later
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Mar 22, 2014 13:06:49 GMT -5
So, I guess I should start by saying that I apologize for what I'm doing. I didn't want it to be this way and I apologize to the people over the last few days who died. Your death hopefully will not be in vain and it got me to a point I always wanted to be... the guy with all the control.
Now, I've always said that in all honesty the best position for me is being in the game where I have total control and now I do. You see, I agree with Peg that Mr. B is a little shaky, but at this point of the game we need a sure thing and I think I know who the sure thing is...
It's you Peg.
Let me explain, the only reason why I would begin to show up on your radar knowing how I play is if I had some sort of ability that makes me super important in a late game situation and shockingly enough I do. I also may have finally put your character to your name. If a character like Bray Wyatt exists in that game I know that GM wouldn't miss the opportunity to give that character to the guy who has the ability to lead people like sheep in these games.
So then, let me think of why I'm also ok with being wrong here. If there is no SK, which I believe Bray Wyatt is, I put the final scum (who I think is Mr. B for how hard Peg is trying to get him lynched) in a terrible position. Once I vote everyone will know I'm town, you know Wolf is town because he's the innocent child, and they can't kill us both. Therefore the remaining town will at least know one person is town and combined they can win the game.
Finally, if this leads to a loss and I'm totally wrong, then I shoulder full blame. My late game play was to insert a little bit of drama into a a game which was lacking any, so I got loose with what I would do and prolonged the game for both my own benefit to get these choices and to give the other side which was crippled by inadequate members a fair shake.
So TL:DR... I VOTE: Pegasus Warrior
Also to speed the game along I SECOND VOTE: Pegasus Warrior
There's your lynch GM, let's get a move on.
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Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Mar 22, 2014 13:10:22 GMT -5
GASP
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 22, 2014 13:15:45 GMT -5
A great play. Mafia is dead to rights after this. I side with Jazzman's decision and gameplay here.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Mar 22, 2014 13:22:33 GMT -5
A great play. Mafia is dead to rights after this. I side with Jazzman's decision and gameplay here. Sorry buddy, just couldn't take the risk.
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Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
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Post by Waffel113 on Mar 22, 2014 13:25:07 GMT -5
*crosses fingers, holds Official Brad Maddox Statuette (C) in pocket as good luck charm*
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 22, 2014 13:40:39 GMT -5
I'm not Bray Wyatt and these aren't the droids you're looking for. Sorry, Waffel.
I liked the game within a game aspect, and I'm just glad I got to win my gauntlets and get some night actions that helped the team. I think we will still win. My major fear of players' deviating from the obvious solutions is being put to rest. I think we win. I think.
I wish I was there in the end to see it through, but I'm confident Town can group together and figure this out.
(I don't think I'm allowed to post a wall of text about what you should do because of what Anon GM said earlier after a hammer drop. I don't want to penalize who I think is the last Mafia choice.)
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 22, 2014 16:50:37 GMT -5
Pegasus, there's been something about you that I've been wondering about all this time. But you know what, I thank you for putting yourself up like this. And I think this will give us exactly the last chunk of information we need to finally win this game.
One way or the other things will end very soon, I hope it's sooner rather than later, but for now I'm going to trust in the town and hope this is the move we need to make. And I'm gonna do my damndest to make sure we see it through to the end.
Vote: Pegasuswarrior
Consider that the Five Knuckle Shuffle. Tomorrow I bring the Attitude Adjustment... if I make it through the night.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 22, 2014 20:00:45 GMT -5
I sure hope you guys recognize that I've been trying to get this guy killed for days.
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