Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
|
Post by Lila on Dec 10, 2013 23:06:30 GMT -5
Also, didn't someone post about the cycle of posters on forum and how around certain times of the year does the board get certain new or older posters making their presents know? Troll seasons always happen around this time of year. I think the cycle is in the summer when there's a bit of dead period in wrestling. There's a bunch of guys who de menstrate poor forum etiquette with their moody retorts. It leaves a lot of us quite irritable, but after a few days once the moderators begin to flush them out, it usually gets better. Seems about right as you know people will have school off and whatnot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 23:16:38 GMT -5
Also, didn't someone post about the cycle of posters on forum and how around certain times of the year does the board get certain new or older posters making their presents know? Troll seasons always happen around this time of year. You mean to tell me there's actually a Troll Season? That's phenomenal. There's got to be a way to make money off this....
|
|
Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
|
Post by Glitch on Dec 10, 2013 23:18:23 GMT -5
This reminds me, there is an IWC meeting this Saturday. We are voting on whether Daniel Bryan is still being suppressed by the wwe. Just remember people, there are no individual opinions. Once the votes have been set and counted, the group's opinion is your opinion!
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 10, 2013 23:24:46 GMT -5
Your argument comes down to "prove it" despite the fact that you provided no facts either. It's clear that people love Triple H but the internet hates him, that's why he always got amazing pops and was both a ratings and a pay-per-view draw, but if you only read the internet you'd believe otherwise. The "IWC" since we don't have a better name for it is not as big of WWE's audience as some like to think. Exactly. I don't have any stats, and neither do you. What I'm not doing, though, is pretending as though I know what's real compared to what other people "like to think." I know that it'd be insane for me to do that, because I have nothing to back it up. But because you have nothing more than I do, why do you feel comfortable asserting that your opinion is objective truth? It's too complicated, but the fact that Zack Ryder was getting some of the least viewed segments in modern WWE history when he was supposedly on top of the world is one thing to point out. There are others like it, but that's an easy one to understand.
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Dec 10, 2013 23:32:13 GMT -5
Exactly. I don't have any stats, and neither do you. What I'm not doing, though, is pretending as though I know what's real compared to what other people "like to think." I know that it'd be insane for me to do that, because I have nothing to back it up. But because you have nothing more than I do, why do you feel comfortable asserting that your opinion is objective truth? It's too complicated, but the fact that Zack Ryder was getting some of the least viewed segments in modern WWE history when he was supposedly on top of the world is one thing to point out. There are others like it, but that's an easy one to understand. You're right about one thing. It is too complicated. We can cherry-pick a few situations and hold them up to prove whatever we want. (HHH's received pops, thus the IWC was wrong? They were chanting for Bryan all night long on Monday. OMG, the IWC must be right!) But we're proving nothing without serious, honest, comprehensive analysis that takes into account all the variables, all the sources of error, all the datapoints, etc. None of us have the time or inclination to do that, which is fine. I'd be scared if someone did. But the flip side of our casual fandom is that we can't speak as authorities or voices of absolute truth, scolding others for not accepting the truth that we're allegedly handing down. We only have opinions and perceptions. And yours aren't better than mine, any more than mine are better than yours. Rail against the IWC, but while you're doing it, know that you're only voicing an opinion. The fault you're attacking in the alleged IWC bogeyman borg ship is not that it is factually wrong, but only in that it disagrees with you.
|
|
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 10, 2013 23:41:23 GMT -5
This reminds me, there is an IWC meeting this Saturday. We are voting on whether Daniel Bryan is still being suppressed by the wwe. Just remember people, there are no individual opinions. Once the votes have been set and counted, the group's opinion is your opinion! Will there be cookies or do I have to bring my own?
|
|
Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
|
Post by Glitch on Dec 10, 2013 23:42:56 GMT -5
This reminds me, there is an IWC meeting this Saturday. We are voting on whether Daniel Bryan is still being suppressed by the wwe. Just remember people, there are no individual opinions. Once the votes have been set and counted, the group's opinion is your opinion! Will there be cookies or do I have to bring my own? We will provide the cookies, but you have to bring your own punch.
|
|
|
Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 10, 2013 23:45:39 GMT -5
When I started posting here about a year ago, I was directed here by a friend who reads the "dirt sheets" and "inside" newz on wrestlers. He was reading these forums because his favorite website was Wrestlecrap. He was incredulous to much of the crazy stuff some posters were saying. He also has friends who are wrestlers in minor Indies all over Northeast Ohio. He honestly sees both sides of wrestling. He couldn't believe some of the things uneducated people claiming to "know something" "knew". He needed me to substantiate that people thought and wrote this way, and I was his mark. I like writing and arguing, so I stayed here.
Mike Polk, the Cleveland Browns fan and "Factory of Sadness" guy, said in that video that he watches the Browns because they are supposed to be a distraction from the drudgery of life, when, in fact, they are the direct cause of the drudgery in his life. (As an aside, I almost created a "Factory of Sadness" meme, dedicated to the IWC...I still might.) That is exactly how I feel some of you look at wrestling, especially the WWE. I honestly think that, for many reasons, the IWC doesn't enjoy something that they used to enjoy, and uses the internet to vent those frustrations. Many in the IWC strike out anywhere and everywhere. There is too much misplaced anger over something important to them.
I don't know about you, but what did it for me was HH having to finally admit to abusing steroids. Not that I was a HH fan (I have always been a Flair fan), but I am big on lying to little kids, even when I was nine years old. I remember the moment I decided "the fix was in" about wrestling, but it never deterred my from being a fan. You in the IWC may have had a similar experience. The point is not to turn this into a therapy session: I'm merely stating everyone has a reason for their expectations about pro-wrestling.
I tell my students all the time that, if you no longer find joy on what you are doing, stop doing it. That is where my frustration is with IWC, and I have expressed such in other threads. If you hate "sports-entertainment", stop watching it. Why make yourself miserable?
Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. EVERY "bad" thing that the IWC perceives is happening to him is actually extending his time and relevance in the WWE...a place where many of you never thought he would last. You see Bryan getting "buried". In reality, he's been in major angles for the past four years, practically every year he's been employed. Every time he's going to get relegated to pre-shows on PPVs, he ends up in the biggest angles of the year. Every time he's seemingly out of the WWE, he becomes more ensconced. It's almost a running joke in this forum.
John Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. There, I said it. For what he does and what he means to the company, he is the franchise. You judge him by antiquated carny standards. Nine-year-old want to see Superman win every week. It must be a crushing burden to be John Cena. The fact that the IWC hates him is irrelevant. He knows exactly what his employer expects him to do and does it better than most people. He is a ring general. His psychology needs work. Dr. Ken Robinson says that there are two types of restaurants: fast food and gourmet. Both serve their purposes. WWE is like McDonald's. Indy wrestling is like your local bistro. When guys like Punk our Bryan get signed by WWE, you immediately want them to stay virginal. McDonald's isn't serving filet mignon; but they are trying to serve you the Quarter Pounder Deluxe.
When you saw Bryan in the E, you never thought he'd last, because they'd never push a hybrid wrestler with no personality to speak of. Did you ever consider that he is serious about his lifelong dream to be a WWE wrestler, and will stop at nothing to maintain it? Did you ever consider THIS version of Bryan is the closest to himself on real life? He named his dog Asparagus for Christ's sake...who does that? Certainly not some badass shoot fighter. Punk meticulously cultivated his image of being an iconoclast and being above the general goofiness of being a WWE Superstar, but, dammit, he wants his ice cream bar! I wish the IWC would consider that "Daniel Bryan" and "CM PUNK" are palatable manifestations of who they are in the business that they love in the best company in the world that executes said business.
Even Dean Ambrose said in a recent shoot interview not to take wrestling so seriously, and I'm about to make an argument that, right now, HE is the best wrestler in the WWE. We can debate the myriad of reasons those of you in the IWC hate the product right now. It is tedious, however, to see page after page dedicated to "Spoiler Alert: Cena Wins".
Another thing is that the IWC takes a sick amount of horrific pride in clowning those who do like the status quo wrestlers. I personally could take or leave Cena even though this post reads like a possible defense of him. Are there better wrestlers than him in certain aspects? Yes, but right now, he is the everything WWE expects and he is putting it together well. (If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.)
My advice is to continue to be critical, but enjoy it for what it is as well...or support the indies.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Dec 11, 2013 0:31:56 GMT -5
Also, didn't someone post about the cycle of posters on forum and how around certain times of the year does the board get certain new or older posters making their presents know? Troll seasons always happen around this time of year. You mean to tell me there's actually a Troll Season? That's phenomenal. There's got to be a way to make money off this.... To clarify, there is a troll season but you need a license and there is a bag limit of three per week.
|
|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 11, 2013 0:33:26 GMT -5
Also, didn't someone post about the cycle of posters on forum and how around certain times of the year does the board get certain new or older posters making their presents know? Troll seasons always happen around this time of year. *glances at the Orton thread*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 0:45:21 GMT -5
Quite frankly, the anti IWC business is dated.
Every year it feels like more people in the crowd are smarkier than the year before. By a significant margin too. 3 years from now, over half the crowd is going to be smarks and I don't think I'm exaggerating. That's the direction we are heading.
The world uses the internet, more and more, they're in, they know.
Look at the signs in the crowd on a random RAW. It's nothing but in jokes, seriously. You've got some kids with mark signs, then a bunch of smark stuff. Okay not COMPLETELY smark stuff but what, 70% of adult signs with smark references? It's a shit ton
|
|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 11, 2013 1:11:47 GMT -5
Quite frankly, the anti IWC business is dated. Every year it feels like more people in the crowd are smarkier than the year before. By a significant margin too. 3 years from now, over half the crowd is going to be smarks and I don't think I'm exaggerating. That's the direction we are heading. The world uses the internet, more and more, they're in, they know. Look at the signs in the crowd on a random RAW. It's nothing but in jokes, seriously. You've got some kids with mark signs, then a bunch of smark stuff. Okay not COMPLETELY smark stuff but what, 70% of adult signs with smark references? It's a shit ton Not to mention, it used to be that you would only see this sort of thing in select markets, most of them in the Northeast US area. But now, even some of the more traditionally casual markets are now becoming very snarky. Like Seattle last night.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,641
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Dec 11, 2013 6:06:48 GMT -5
It's the "indy darling" stuff I don't understand, it's pretty obvious that Daniel Bryan and Punk's fanbases are a lot wider these days.
That attitude often continues even when somebody produces a big list of popular WWE produced wrestlers often including people who don't fit the smark favourite stereotype (Big E, Bray Wyatt etc).
I think The Shield proved a certain level of blind hate, they were often dismissed as an indy, roh or NXT team despite at least one member of the stable not fitting into those categories.
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 11, 2013 6:16:29 GMT -5
When I started paying here about a year ago, I was directed here by a friend who reads the "dirt sheets" and "inside" newz on wrestlers. He was reading these forums because his favorite website was Wrestlecrap. He was incredulous to much of the crazy stuff some posters were saying. He also has friends who are wrestlers in minor Indies all over Northeast Ohio. He honestly sees both sides of wrestling. He couldn't believe some of the things uneducated people claiming to "know something" "knew". He needed me to substantiate that people thought and wrote this way, and I was his mark. I like writing and arguing, so I stayed here. Mike Polk, the Cleveland Browns fan and "Factory of Sadness" guy, said in that video that he watches the Browns because they are supposed to be a distraction from the drudgery of life, when, in fact, they are the direct cause of the drudgery in his life. (As an aside, I almost created a "Factory of Sadness" meme, dedicated to the IWC...I still might.) That is exactly how I feel some of you look at wrestling, especially the WWE. I honestly think that, for many reasons, the IWC doesn't enjoy something that they used to enjoy, and uses the internet to vent those frustrations. Many in the IWC strike out anywhere and everywhere. There is too much misplaced anger over something important to them. I don't know about you, but what did it for me was HH having to finally admit to abusing steroids. Not that I was a HH fan (I have always been a Flair fan), but I am big on lying to little kids, even when I was nine years old. I remember the moment I decided "the fix was in" about wrestling, but it never deterred my from being a fan. You in the IWC may have had a similar experience. The point is not to turn this into a therapy session: I'm merely stating everyone has a reason for their expectations about pro-wrestling. I tell my students all the time that, if you no longer find joy on what you are doing, stop doing it. That is where my frustration is with IWC, and I have expressed such in other threads. If you hate "sports-entertainment", stop watching it. Why make yourself miserable? Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. EVERY "bad" thing that the IWC perceives is happening to him is actually extending his time and relevance in the WWE...a place where many of you never thought he would last. You see Bryan getting "buried". In reality, he's been in major angles for the past four years, practically every year he's been employed. Every time he's going to get relegated to pre-shows on PPVs, he ends up in the biggest angles of the year. Every time he's seemingly out of the WWE, he becomes more ensconced. It's almost a running joke in this forum. John Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. There, I said it. For what he does and what he means to the company, he is the franchise. You judge him by antiquated carny standards. Nine-year-old want to see Superman win every week. It must be a crushing burden to be John Cena. The fact that the IWC hates him is irrelevant. He knows exactly what his employer expects him to do and does it better than most people. He is a ring general. His psychology needs work. Dr. Ken Robinson says that there are two types of restaurants: fast food and gourmet. Both serve their purposes. WWE is like McDonald's. Indy wrestling is like your local bistro. When guys like Punk our Bryan get signed by WWE, you immediately want them to stay virginal. McDonald's isn't serving filet mignon; but they are trying to serve you the Quarter Pounder Deluxe. When you saw Bryan in the E, you never thought he'd last, because they'd never push a hybrid wrestler with no personality to speak of. Did you ever consider that he is serious about his lifelong dream to be a WWE wrestler, and well stop at nothing to maintain it? Did you ever consider THIS version of Bryan is the closest to himself on real life? He named his dog Asparagus for Christ's sake...who does that? Certainly not some badass shoot fighter. Punk meticulously cultivated his image of being an iconoclast and being above the general goofiness of being a WWE Superstar, but, dammit, he wants his ice cream bar! I wish the IWC would consider that "Daniel Bryan" and "CM PUNK" are palatable manifestations of who they are in the business that they love in the best company in the world that executes said business. Even Dean Ambrose said in a recent shoot interview not to take wrestling so seriously, and I'm about to make an argument that, right now, HE is the best wrestler in the WWE. We can debate the myriad of reasons those of you in the IWC hate the product right now. It is tedious, however, to see page after page dedicated to "Spoiler Alert: Cena Wins". Another thing is that the IWC takes a sick amount of horrific pride in clowning those who do like the status quo wrestlers. I personally could take or leave Cena even though this post reads like a possible defense of him. Are there better wrestlers than him in certain aspects? Yes, but right now, he is the everything WWE expects and he is putting it together well. (If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) My advice is to continue to be critical, but enjoy it for what it is as well...or support the indies. I will not let this be ignored
|
|
|
Post by Germansuplex on Dec 11, 2013 6:36:54 GMT -5
(If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) I agree with your post except for this, because Orton already gets way more hate than Cena, who won the IWC (if there is such a thing) over long ago.
|
|
|
Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 6:40:42 GMT -5
When I started paying here about a year ago, I was directed here by a friend who reads the "dirt sheets" and "inside" newz on wrestlers. He was reading these forums because his favorite website was Wrestlecrap. He was incredulous to much of the crazy stuff some posters were saying. He also has friends who are wrestlers in minor Indies all over Northeast Ohio. He honestly sees both sides of wrestling. He couldn't believe some of the things uneducated people claiming to "know something" "knew". He needed me to substantiate that people thought and wrote this way, and I was his mark. I like writing and arguing, so I stayed here. Mike Polk, the Cleveland Browns fan and "Factory of Sadness" guy, said in that video that he watches the Browns because they are supposed to be a distraction from the drudgery of life, when, in fact, they are the direct cause of the drudgery in his life. (As an aside, I almost created a "Factory of Sadness" meme, dedicated to the IWC...I still might.) That is exactly how I feel some of you look at wrestling, especially the WWE. I honestly think that, for many reasons, the IWC doesn't enjoy something that they used to enjoy, and uses the internet to vent those frustrations. Many in the IWC strike out anywhere and everywhere. There is too much misplaced anger over something important to them. I don't know about you, but what did it for me was HH having to finally admit to abusing steroids. Not that I was a HH fan (I have always been a Flair fan), but I am big on lying to little kids, even when I was nine years old. I remember the moment I decided "the fix was in" about wrestling, but it never deterred my from being a fan. You in the IWC may have had a similar experience. The point is not to turn this into a therapy session: I'm merely stating everyone has a reason for their expectations about pro-wrestling. I tell my students all the time that, if you no longer find joy on what you are doing, stop doing it. That is where my frustration is with IWC, and I have expressed such in other threads. If you hate "sports-entertainment", stop watching it. Why make yourself miserable? Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. EVERY "bad" thing that the IWC perceives is happening to him is actually extending his time and relevance in the WWE...a place where many of you never thought he would last. You see Bryan getting "buried". In reality, he's been in major angles for the past four years, practically every year he's been employed. Every time he's going to get relegated to pre-shows on PPVs, he ends up in the biggest angles of the year. Every time he's seemingly out of the WWE, he becomes more ensconced. It's almost a running joke in this forum. John Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. There, I said it. For what he does and what he means to the company, he is the franchise. You judge him by antiquated carny standards. Nine-year-old want to see Superman win every week. It must be a crushing burden to be John Cena. The fact that the IWC hates him is irrelevant. He knows exactly what his employer expects him to do and does it better than most people. He is a ring general. His psychology needs work. Dr. Ken Robinson says that there are two types of restaurants: fast food and gourmet. Both serve their purposes. WWE is like McDonald's. Indy wrestling is like your local bistro. When guys like Punk our Bryan get signed by WWE, you immediately want them to stay virginal. McDonald's isn't serving filet mignon; but they are trying to serve you the Quarter Pounder Deluxe. When you saw Bryan in the E, you never thought he'd last, because they'd never push a hybrid wrestler with no personality to speak of. Did you ever consider that he is serious about his lifelong dream to be a WWE wrestler, and well stop at nothing to maintain it? Did you ever consider THIS version of Bryan is the closest to himself on real life? He named his dog Asparagus for Christ's sake...who does that? Certainly not some badass shoot fighter. Punk meticulously cultivated his image of being an iconoclast and being above the general goofiness of being a WWE Superstar, but, dammit, he wants his ice cream bar! I wish the IWC would consider that "Daniel Bryan" and "CM PUNK" are palatable manifestations of who they are in the business that they love in the best company in the world that executes said business. Even Dean Ambrose said in a recent shoot interview not to take wrestling so seriously, and I'm about to make an argument that, right now, HE is the best wrestler in the WWE. We can debate the myriad of reasons those of you in the IWC hate the product right now. It is tedious, however, to see page after page dedicated to "Spoiler Alert: Cena Wins". Another thing is that the IWC takes a sick amount of horrific pride in clowning those who do like the status quo wrestlers. I personally could take or leave Cena even though this post reads like a possible defense of him. Are there better wrestlers than him in certain aspects? Yes, but right now, he is the everything WWE expects and he is putting it together well. (If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) My advice is to continue to be critical, but enjoy it for what it is as well...or support the indies. I will not let this be ignored Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 6:46:53 GMT -5
(If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) I agree with your post except for this, because Orton already gets way more hate than Cena, who won the IWC (if there is such a thing) over long ago. Maybe I got here late, but I have never seen Orton love here. Regard, maybe, but not love. Yes there is an IWC, like the Moral Majority and Keyser Soze.
|
|
|
Post by Germansuplex on Dec 11, 2013 6:54:28 GMT -5
I agree with your post except for this, because Orton already gets way more hate than Cena, who won the IWC (if there is such a thing) over long ago. Maybe I got here late, but I have never seen Orton love here. Regard, maybe, but not love. No one has, that's kinda my point.
|
|
Dave the Dave
Fry's dog Seymour
Knows too much
Posts: 20,790
Member is Online
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 11, 2013 6:56:53 GMT -5
must we analyze ourselves? Further more petty forum disputes have nothing to do with WWE. Can this at least go to off topic?
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on Dec 11, 2013 7:23:26 GMT -5
Thanks! [/quote] Most of the post did get it right, but the bigger issue is that both sides of the coin- both the IWC and the WWE have reached an impasse, and both sides refuse to budge. The IWC has a bad case of declaring the show RUINED FOREVER! for any small problem they have with booking- and the small undercard is equal to the main event, where it can hinder your enjoyment (there's people equally complaining about, say, Orton vs. Cena in the main event marquee match- for the last B-PPV in WWE history after the Network starts in February...as there are for, say, Xavier Woods getting squashed in a minute by Brodus Clay [to further Woods's first storyline...and to tell the truth, Brodus's first "real" storyline too.] There is a point where the IWC is entitled enough to think "no, no, no, everything you do has to exactly match MY! fantasy booking!" [keyword MY!- because if you match someone else in the IWC's booking and it's not lockstep to what they want, that IWC member will still complain]- but most IWC members don't recognize if the smaller problems are microcosms of a bigger issue going on [and if they are a microcosm, YOU'LL KNOW- because the same problems will be seen in other places in the show, and become bigger issues.] A lot of the "McDonalds vs. A local bistro" problem is less obvious because the IWC is more like the parent at home saying to their kids "I don't care what YOU like- we made this, and so you will shovel it down and you will think it's the greatest thing you have ever tasted!"... ...and so is the WWE. The WWE is a kids' show. It always has been a kids' show, it always WILL BE a kids' show, and even if adult fans enjoy it too, it won't change that at its core, the WWE is a kids' show. And the adult fans are an example of the same issue- as WWF made its name as a kids show [and hooked those fans] in the 1980s, when quality control for kids' shows wasn't considered as important as it would be today. This ties into the IWC's viewpoint a lot of times- whether they know too little to not get it or know too much to totally get it, the IWC member DOES know what they like. However, this is also the problem the WWE has as well- since it was a kids' show for years, it's still booking under a kids' show mentality of "They're just kids, they won't know any better- they'll shovel down whatever we tell them to." Never mind the fact that children's TV has improved to a point where a standard of quality is necessary for even kids' shows for very young kids, which can end up getting them a peripheral audience who appreciate the quality- the mindset for WWE is still "shut up, sit down, buy the ticket, buy the merch, and act like WE TELL YOU TO ACT." Even if WCW were the ones to put "Cheer" and "Boo" lights up to the crowd, and TNA were the ones to come out and say to the audience "You're just cast members, you will react how we tell you to react"- the WWE has always wanted that same reaction from the crowd, and will only throw a bone otherwise if the crowd makes it clear that something is the hill that they'll die on (like, for example, the crowd reaction for Daniel Bryan Monday.) A lot of times the WWE will budge, but sometimes, when what the fans want is blatantly the worse thing for business as a whole, the WWE will counter on the hill they'll die on (and then you get, for example, how John Cena is reacted to- where it's become expected from both sides and doesn't particularly change anything), and even in the face of everything going against it, the WWE will ignore- or WANT TO ignore- that a move they're doing is failing, choosing to go down with the ship instead of changing it. As a result, there will never be unity between the IWC and WWE, because both sides are run by people who want their way or the highway, and are more than happy to break THEIR TOY, THEIR WAY, than share it with the other.
|
|