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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 7:31:25 GMT -5
Most of the post did get it right, but the bigger issue is that both sides of the coin- both the IWC and the WWE have reached an impasse, and both sides refuse to budge. The IWC has a bad case of declaring the show RUINED FOREVER! for any small problem they have with booking- and the small undercard is equal to the main event, where it can hinder your enjoyment (there's people equally complaining about, say, Orton vs. Cena in the main event marquee match- for the last B-PPV in WWE history after the Network starts in February...as there are for, say, Xavier Woods getting squashed in a minute by Brodus Clay [to further Woods's first storyline...and to tell the truth, Brodus's first "real" storyline too.] There is a point where the IWC is entitled enough to think "no, no, no, everything you do has to exactly match MY! fantasy booking!" [keyword MY!- because if you match someone else in the IWC's booking and it's not lockstep to what they want, that IWC member will still complain]- but most IWC members don't recognize if the smaller problems are microcosms of a bigger issue going on [and if they are a microcosm, YOU'LL KNOW- because the same problems will be seen in other places in the show, and become bigger issues.] A lot of the "McDonalds vs. A local bistro" problem is less obvious because the IWC is more like the parent at home saying to their kids "I don't care what YOU like- we made this, and so you will shovel it down and you will think it's the greatest thing you have ever tasted!"... ...and so is the WWE. The WWE is a kids' show. It always has been a kids' show, it always WILL BE a kids' show, and even if adult fans enjoy it too, it won't change that at its core, the WWE is a kids' show. And the adult fans are an example of the same issue- as WWF made its name as a kids show [and hooked those fans] in the 1980s, when quality control for kids' shows wasn't considered as important as it would be today. This ties into the IWC's viewpoint a lot of times- whether they know too little to not get it or know too much to totally get it, the IWC member DOES know what they like. However, this is also the problem the WWE has as well- since it was a kids' show for years, it's still booking under a kids' show mentality of "They're just kids, they won't know any better- they'll shovel down whatever we tell them to." Never mind the fact that children's TV has improved to a point where a standard of quality is necessary for even kids' shows for very young kids, which can end up getting them a peripheral audience who appreciate the quality- the mindset for WWE is still "shut up, sit down, buy the ticket, buy the merch, and act like WE TELL YOU TO ACT." Even if WCW were the ones to put "Cheer" and "Boo" lights up to the crowd, and TNA were the ones to come out and say to the audience "You're just cast members, you will react how we tell you to react"- the WWE has always wanted that same reaction from the crowd, and will only throw a bone otherwise if the crowd makes it clear that something is the hill that they'll die on (like, for example, the crowd reaction for Daniel Bryan Monday.) A lot of times the WWE will budge, but sometimes, when what the fans want is blatantly the worse thing for business as a whole, the WWE will counter on the hill they'll die on (and then you get, for example, how John Cena is reacted to- where it's become expected from both sides and doesn't particularly change anything), and even in the face of everything going against it, the WWE will ignore- or WANT TO ignore- that a move they're doing is failing, choosing to go down with the ship instead of changing it. As a result, there will never be unity between the IWC and WWE, because both sides are run by people who want their way or the highway, and are more than happy to break THEIR TOY, THEIR WAY, than share it with the other. [/quote] Well said!
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 11, 2013 7:35:10 GMT -5
When I started posting here about a year ago, I was directed here by a friend who reads the "dirt sheets" and "inside" newz on wrestlers. He was reading these forums because his favorite website was Wrestlecrap. He was incredulous to much of the crazy stuff some posters were saying. He also has friends who are wrestlers in minor Indies all over Northeast Ohio. He honestly sees both sides of wrestling. He couldn't believe some of the things uneducated people claiming to "know something" "knew". He needed me to substantiate that people thought and wrote this way, and I was his mark. I like writing and arguing, so I stayed here. Mike Polk, the Cleveland Browns fan and "Factory of Sadness" guy, said in that video that he watches the Browns because they are supposed to be a distraction from the drudgery of life, when, in fact, they are the direct cause of the drudgery in his life. (As an aside, I almost created a "Factory of Sadness" meme, dedicated to the IWC...I still might.) That is exactly how I feel some of you look at wrestling, especially the WWE. I honestly think that, for many reasons, the IWC doesn't enjoy something that they used to enjoy, and uses the internet to vent those frustrations. Many in the IWC strike out anywhere and everywhere. There is too much misplaced anger over something important to them. I don't know about you, but what did it for me was HH having to finally admit to abusing steroids. Not that I was a HH fan (I have always been a Flair fan), but I am big on lying to little kids, even when I was nine years old. I remember the moment I decided "the fix was in" about wrestling, but it never deterred my from being a fan. You in the IWC may have had a similar experience. The point is not to turn this into a therapy session: I'm merely stating everyone has a reason for their expectations about pro-wrestling. I tell my students all the time that, if you no longer find joy on what you are doing, stop doing it. That is where my frustration is with IWC, and I have expressed such in other threads. If you hate "sports-entertainment", stop watching it. Why make yourself miserable? Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. EVERY "bad" thing that the IWC perceives is happening to him is actually extending his time and relevance in the WWE...a place where many of you never thought he would last. You see Bryan getting "buried". In reality, he's been in major angles for the past four years, practically every year he's been employed. Every time he's going to get relegated to pre-shows on PPVs, he ends up in the biggest angles of the year. Every time he's seemingly out of the WWE, he becomes more ensconced. It's almost a running joke in this forum. John Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. There, I said it. For what he does and what he means to the company, he is the franchise. You judge him by antiquated carny standards. Nine-year-old want to see Superman win every week. It must be a crushing burden to be John Cena. The fact that the IWC hates him is irrelevant. He knows exactly what his employer expects him to do and does it better than most people. He is a ring general. His psychology needs work. Dr. Ken Robinson says that there are two types of restaurants: fast food and gourmet. Both serve their purposes. WWE is like McDonald's. Indy wrestling is like your local bistro. When guys like Punk our Bryan get signed by WWE, you immediately want them to stay virginal. McDonald's isn't serving filet mignon; but they are trying to serve you the Quarter Pounder Deluxe. When you saw Bryan in the E, you never thought he'd last, because they'd never push a hybrid wrestler with no personality to speak of. Did you ever consider that he is serious about his lifelong dream to be a WWE wrestler, and will stop at nothing to maintain it? Did you ever consider THIS version of Bryan is the closest to himself on real life? He named his dog Asparagus for Christ's sake...who does that? Certainly not some badass shoot fighter. Punk meticulously cultivated his image of being an iconoclast and being above the general goofiness of being a WWE Superstar, but, dammit, he wants his ice cream bar! I wish the IWC would consider that "Daniel Bryan" and "CM PUNK" are palatable manifestations of who they are in the business that they love in the best company in the world that executes said business. Even Dean Ambrose said in a recent shoot interview not to take wrestling so seriously, and I'm about to make an argument that, right now, HE is the best wrestler in the WWE. We can debate the myriad of reasons those of you in the IWC hate the product right now. It is tedious, however, to see page after page dedicated to "Spoiler Alert: Cena Wins". Another thing is that the IWC takes a sick amount of horrific pride in clowning those who do like the status quo wrestlers. I personally could take or leave Cena even though this post reads like a possible defense of him. Are there better wrestlers than him in certain aspects? Yes, but right now, he is the everything WWE expects and he is putting it together well. (If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) My advice is to continue to be critical, but enjoy it for what it is as well...or support the indies. I'm sorry but about EVERYTHING with this post is what's wrong with the anti-IWC sentiment. You're friend knows indy wrestlers and reads dirt sheets, so that means that those who disagree with his opinions and yours are uneducated? You've lumped everyone who disagrees with you into the anonymous cult of the IWC while doing exactly what they do also. Yes this site does take a "sick amount of horrific pride" in clowning the status quo, but as you said in the very beginning of your baseless rant this site came from wrestlecrap, a site dedicated to clowning the status quo and history of wrestling, so of course a large percentage of posters from that era and site share that sense of humor. Check out wrestlecrap or The Freaking Awesome Network homepage sometime and you'll see that the sites are a lot of lampooning of the sillier things from pop culture and wrestling. I am a big Cena fan and have been for a long time. Cena hate is very much low around here and he gets a lot of credit for what he does bring to the table. Most people hate his booking not him, but a lot of these better than the IWC crowd see any criticism, even that not directed at Cena as blind hate that might grow to some dangerous level unless they intervene and then strawman that right into the argument they already have made out in their head. If you no longer find joy in something stop doing it, yet we have people all the time who exist on boards who are miserable because other people have opinions that are stupid or wrong or just totally different, yet they feel compelled to click on the thread and save that posters soul from being swallowed by the mindless mass of the cult of the IWC, and end up blowing a stupid thread into a stupider debate, instead of letting the thread just die of atrophy. I feel that some people look at the IWC and don't want to admit that they are apart of it. They used to love to lampoon the things they thought were funny but one day happened to click a thread that they were offended by or didn't share the humor in. Someone clowned one of the guys they liked and it wasn't funny anymore. The anti-IWC doesn't find enjoyment in something they used to so they lash out on the internet...anywhere everywhere...blah blah misplaced anger...blah blah IRONY!!
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Post by Wolfaga on Dec 11, 2013 7:39:08 GMT -5
But.....AJ REALLY IS the smartest, coolest, hottest diva ever and would totally love hanging out with me if we met. I disagree with you it's clearly; {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Eva Marie
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 10:26:30 GMT -5
When I started posting here about a year ago, I was directed here by a friend who reads the "dirt sheets" and "inside" newz on wrestlers. He was reading these forums because his favorite website was Wrestlecrap. He was incredulous to much of the crazy stuff some posters were saying. He also has friends who are wrestlers in minor Indies all over Northeast Ohio. He honestly sees both sides of wrestling. He couldn't believe some of the things uneducated people claiming to "know something" "knew". He needed me to substantiate that people thought and wrote this way, and I was his mark. I like writing and arguing, so I stayed here. Mike Polk, the Cleveland Browns fan and "Factory of Sadness" guy, said in that video that he watches the Browns because they are supposed to be a distraction from the drudgery of life, when, in fact, they are the direct cause of the drudgery in his life. (As an aside, I almost created a "Factory of Sadness" meme, dedicated to the IWC...I still might.) That is exactly how I feel some of you look at wrestling, especially the WWE. I honestly think that, for many reasons, the IWC doesn't enjoy something that they used to enjoy, and uses the internet to vent those frustrations. Many in the IWC strike out anywhere and everywhere. There is too much misplaced anger over something important to them. I don't know about you, but what did it for me was HH having to finally admit to abusing steroids. Not that I was a HH fan (I have always been a Flair fan), but I am big on lying to little kids, even when I was nine years old. I remember the moment I decided "the fix was in" about wrestling, but it never deterred my from being a fan. You in the IWC may have had a similar experience. The point is not to turn this into a therapy session: I'm merely stating everyone has a reason for their expectations about pro-wrestling. I tell my students all the time that, if you no longer find joy on what you are doing, stop doing it. That is where my frustration is with IWC, and I have expressed such in other threads. If you hate "sports-entertainment", stop watching it. Why make yourself miserable? Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. EVERY "bad" thing that the IWC perceives is happening to him is actually extending his time and relevance in the WWE...a place where many of you never thought he would last. You see Bryan getting "buried". In reality, he's been in major angles for the past four years, practically every year he's been employed. Every time he's going to get relegated to pre-shows on PPVs, he ends up in the biggest angles of the year. Every time he's seemingly out of the WWE, he becomes more ensconced. It's almost a running joke in this forum. John Cena is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE. There, I said it. For what he does and what he means to the company, he is the franchise. You judge him by antiquated carny standards. Nine-year-old want to see Superman win every week. It must be a crushing burden to be John Cena. The fact that the IWC hates him is irrelevant. He knows exactly what his employer expects him to do and does it better than most people. He is a ring general. His psychology needs work. Dr. Ken Robinson says that there are two types of restaurants: fast food and gourmet. Both serve their purposes. WWE is like McDonald's. Indy wrestling is like your local bistro. When guys like Punk our Bryan get signed by WWE, you immediately want them to stay virginal. McDonald's isn't serving filet mignon; but they are trying to serve you the Quarter Pounder Deluxe. When you saw Bryan in the E, you never thought he'd last, because they'd never push a hybrid wrestler with no personality to speak of. Did you ever consider that he is serious about his lifelong dream to be a WWE wrestler, and will stop at nothing to maintain it? Did you ever consider THIS version of Bryan is the closest to himself on real life? He named his dog Asparagus for Christ's sake...who does that? Certainly not some badass shoot fighter. Punk meticulously cultivated his image of being an iconoclast and being above the general goofiness of being a WWE Superstar, but, dammit, he wants his ice cream bar! I wish the IWC would consider that "Daniel Bryan" and "CM PUNK" are palatable manifestations of who they are in the business that they love in the best company in the world that executes said business. Even Dean Ambrose said in a recent shoot interview not to take wrestling so seriously, and I'm about to make an argument that, right now, HE is the best wrestler in the WWE. We can debate the myriad of reasons those of you in the IWC hate the product right now. It is tedious, however, to see page after page dedicated to "Spoiler Alert: Cena Wins". Another thing is that the IWC takes a sick amount of horrific pride in clowning those who do like the status quo wrestlers. I personally could take or leave Cena even though this post reads like a possible defense of him. Are there better wrestlers than him in certain aspects? Yes, but right now, he is the everything WWE expects and he is putting it together well. (If anything, the IWC should hate RKO, but that's for another thread.) My advice is to continue to be critical, but enjoy it for what it is as well...or support the indies. I'm sorry but about EVERYTHING with this post is what's wrong with the anti-IWC sentiment. You're friend knows indy wrestlers and reads dirt sheets, so that means that those who disagree with his opinions and yours are uneducated? You've lumped everyone who disagrees with you into the anonymous cult of the IWC while doing exactly what they do also. Yes this site does take a "sick amount of horrific pride" in clowning the status quo, but as you said in the very beginning of your baseless rant this site came from wrestlecrap, a site dedicated to clowning the status quo and history of wrestling, so of course a large percentage of posters from that era and site share that sense of humor. Check out wrestlecrap or The Freaking Awesome Network homepage sometime and you'll see that the sites are a lot of lampooning of the sillier things from pop culture and wrestling. I am a big Cena fan and have been for a long time. Cena hate is very much low around here and he gets a lot of credit for what he does bring to the table. Most people hate his booking not him, but a lot of these better than the IWC crowd see any criticism, even that not directed at Cena as blind hate that might grow to some dangerous level unless they intervene and then strawman that right into the argument they already have made out in their head. If you no longer find joy in something stop doing it, yet we have people all the time who exist on boards who are miserable because other people have opinions that are stupid or wrong or just totally different, yet they feel compelled to click on the thread and save that posters soul from being swallowed by the mindless mass of the cult of the IWC, and end up blowing a stupid thread into a stupider debate, instead of letting the thread just die of atrophy. I feel that some people look at the IWC and don't want to admit that they are apart of it. They used to love to lampoon the things they thought were funny but one day happened to click a thread that they were offended by or didn't share the humor in. Someone clowned one of the guys they liked and it wasn't funny anymore. The anti-IWC doesn't find enjoyment in something they used to so they lash out on the internet...anywhere everywhere...blah blah misplaced anger...blah blah IRONY!! There are people here who act as though they are in the know and aren't. It's not that they are uneducated because they don't know what I know. It is because they subjectify their support for a wrestler and treat it as gospel. Davy Richards might not actually be an asshole. There is empirical proof, however, that he was an asshole on many occasions even before the "walking out on a booker" and the DragonGate/ ROH incidents. Same thing is true with Austin Aries. These other stories are not second hand stories from Aries's barber's cousin's girlfriend. These are primary sources. When I read newz like "Kofi Kingston unhappy with his direction", my first response is why. Is he an idiot? Is he "married to his craft"? He makes $900,000 a year, has travelled the world over numerous times, and has a smoking hot girlfriend, and has a job that he loves and many people envy. You can be unhappy about aspects about your job, granted, but, unless Kofi actually said this to a respected journalist, or someone he's wrestled, it's newz. I can't stand people who ruin fun. The kids in my class do it all the time. I plan an engaging activity like a game. Within two minutes of the game, they start bitching about the game is unfair, she's cheating, etc. Then, when I sit the game down our choose bookmark, they bitch about how boring my class is. People complain that Bryan is getting buried, then, when he is in an established angle, people complain that he's not being used. Punk gets the belt, but he is booked in the third to last match, so, automatically, the belt had lost its shine, and they're stroking Cena's ego because he always has to be the last match. Thus is perception, not fact. The WWE has NO VESTED INTEREST in making their belt look like crap, even when they gave it to Vince himself. The premise of the prestige of the belt is waning is completely ludicrous. The opposite of the IWC is my Grandma. She is the biggest wrestling mark I know. She constantly whines to me, "Why do they let them do that?" As my Grandpa used to say, "It's all a put up, Ann!" She gets annoyed when I say I like, say, Dean Ambrose. She hates the storylines, but watches every week. I'm not trying to get myself over on the internet. I have better things to do. I just can't stand when people criticize just to criticize. People who constantly complain live a joyless existence. The IWC needs to stop over-personalizing Who gets pushed. Zach Ryder has done everything humanly possible for himself to get pushed. If he can look himself in the mirror and be satisfied with his current position in the company, then who are we to judge? We can feel badly for him, but that's it. Some of the IWC was ready to commit suicide after Chris Hero was released. He took being "future endeavoured" the best I've ever read about...and I read it on his Twitter page. Wrestlecrap started as a tongue in cheek homage to the awful stuff we loved about our favorite sport. Their WCW book was amazing. The Goobledygooker was a thing of beauty to be immortalized. John Tenta was so beloved here because he was a legit badass *gaijin* sumo who ended his career painting his face like a shark. In other words, even he didn't take his job that seriously. Nowadays, people would shit on the latter part of his career. I would love if people treated this place more like it used to be. There is a huge difference between reminiscing the past or pointing out the faults of the establishment and arrogantly assuming your way it better especially having no knowledge, expertise, or experience in the field. I don't talk crap ignorantly. You can read any Official PPV Thread and the majority of posts are "Who booked this shit?" Most people in the IWC have dumber ideas than WWE Crrative. Most people in the IWC couldn't properly book a backyard match, let alone run a global corporation. To suggest one can and do it better is fallacy. Most of the IWC truly live in this fallacy, which is why they don't enjoy their favorite sport regardless of the product.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 10:46:16 GMT -5
Quite frankly, the anti IWC business is dated. Every year it feels like more people in the crowd are smarkier than the year before. By a significant margin too. 3 years from now, over half the crowd is going to be smarks and I don't think I'm exaggerating. That's the direction we are heading. The world uses the internet, more and more, they're in, they know. Look at the signs in the crowd on a random RAW. It's nothing but in jokes, seriously. You've got some kids with mark signs, then a bunch of smark stuff. Okay not COMPLETELY smark stuff but what, 70% of adult signs with smark references? It's a shit ton Not to mention, it used to be that you would only see this sort of thing in select markets, most of them in the Northeast US area. But now, even some of the more traditionally casual markets are now becoming very snarky. Like Seattle last night. Even though Seattle is Seattle, I still believe more than half of that crowd was still cheering him because he's local.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 11, 2013 11:24:35 GMT -5
How so? You just claimed him a ring general (which he is), so doesn't that mean his psychology's spot on by default? He's probably the best in the company (perhaps in North America) in that respect.
Eh, I think pretty much all wrestling is fast food. Richards/Edwards was ESPECIALLY greasy.
Other than that, I generally agree with your post.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 11, 2013 11:28:55 GMT -5
Honestly, and this goes for both sides, when you set up a buncha strawmen, it's easy to tear those apart and not have to actually make cogent arguments.
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Post by Long A, Short A on Dec 11, 2013 13:15:48 GMT -5
Isn't it the case where stereotypes exist not because they're necessarily true, but because it's a way for the brain to easily group things?* Which makes sense because no human being has the amount of brainpower to devote to knowing the subtle nuances of each and every person. (*to be applied to PRO WRESTLING/"IWC" ONLY. I better not see any of y'all try to apply this to other, more important things.) Too late snitch, I've believed a version of your statement since 06/07. Is this thread directed to those trolls who trash the smarks and act like everything WWE/TNA do is the right thing, even defending the messed up things TNA does? If I was the OP, this thread would be targeted at that kind of so-and-so. People that claim to be Anti-IWC or just a fan are a lot like Cool Girls(TM).
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Dec 11, 2013 13:18:45 GMT -5
I've never, ever read someone criticise Heyman which seeing how he ran his businesses and the level of intense scrutiny everyone else in the industry is under by fans, I find extraordinary.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 13:26:21 GMT -5
I am SO DONE with the "If you're going to complain, why do you watch it?" question. Am I just crazy or is the Ask/Answer on that question like someone unraveling a "big cable-knit sweater"? Was I in a Pokemon battle and someone hit me with CONFUSION? Was it "SUPER EFFECTIVE!" because it's like I'm punching myself in the head while I'm still trying to pull off "Measured Reply."
"Why do you still watch it?" has been answered again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and once more with feeling and again and again and again and shouted from the rafters and again and again and again and within the cone of silence and again and again...
People really need to stop asking that question, even rhetorically, because the reason why anyone watches this show is frankly none of anyone else's business. It doesn't have to hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 11, 2013 13:34:54 GMT -5
I've never, ever read someone criticise Heyman which seeing how he ran his businesses and the level of intense scrutiny everyone else in the industry is under by fans, I find extraordinary. well google Paul Heyman. You clearly haven't looked hard enough if you've NEVER seen ANYONE criticize him. Are you for real because a lot of your posts are so insulting and general. how is this thread open and mods posting in it? Its not about WWE ad people are complaining about each other. Makes sense.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 11, 2013 13:36:03 GMT -5
Honestly, and this goes for both sides, when you set up a buncha strawmen, it's easy to tear those apart and not have to actually make cogent arguments. Pretty much. I don't care what side of the fence you're on or who you like, I just don't like seeing bullshit arguments. If I think your argument is nonsensical, I'll say so.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 11, 2013 13:37:14 GMT -5
I am SO DONE with the "If you're going to complain, why do you watch it?" question. HEY if you don't like those comments WHY DO YOU READ THEM? check and MATE <smokes cigar>
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 11, 2013 13:38:24 GMT -5
I am SO DONE with the "If you're going to complain, why do you watch it?" question. HEY if you don't like those comments WHY DO YOU READ THEM? check and MATE <smokes cigar> Brah, if you didn't like his comment, why did you even quote it? ...Think about that.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 11, 2013 13:41:11 GMT -5
I am SO DONE with the "If you're going to complain, why do you watch it?" question. Am I just crazy or is the Ask/Answer on that question like someone unraveling a "big cable-knit sweater"? Was I in a Pokemon battle and someone hit me with CONFUSION? Was it "SUPER EFFECTIVE!" because it's like I'm punching myself in the head while I'm still trying to pull off "Measured Reply." "Why do you still watch it?" has been answered again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and once more with feeling and again and again and again and shouted from the rafters and again and again and again and within the cone of silence and again and again... People really need to stop asking that question, even rhetorically, because the reason why anyone watches this show is frankly none of anyone else's business. It doesn't have to hold up to any kind of scrutiny. SO STOP COMPLAINING IRRATIONALLY ABOUT IT! It is just as tiresome to read endless threads of "I'm done. Superman wins again." The IWC who complain thusly are like the five-year-old boy who tells his parents that they're mean, he hates them, and he's running away. His parents pack him a suitcase, and say goodbye. An hour later, he's still sitting on the porch step, wanting to eat dinner.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Dec 11, 2013 13:41:13 GMT -5
With you 100% OP. I hate when the "IWC" is painted with a broad brush.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 11, 2013 13:49:12 GMT -5
I've never, ever read someone criticise Heyman which seeing how he ran his businesses and the level of intense scrutiny everyone else in the industry is under by fans, I find extraordinary. people criticize Heyman for that all the time. dude was a great booker but he really should've let someone else handle the financial side. and yeah he does always reach for excuses when trying to blame everyone but himself for his company's ultimate collapse.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 11, 2013 13:59:10 GMT -5
I've never, ever read someone criticise Heyman which seeing how he ran his businesses and the level of intense scrutiny everyone else in the industry is under by fans, I find extraordinary. I suggest you read the Unauthorized History of ECW. Gives even more reason to give Heyman crap as a business man. As for the IWC business, only thing on the WWE boards that gets annoying is that if somebody starts getting over in NXT, whether it's a guy who was loved from the indies or somebody like Bray Wyatt or Big E, somebody always has to start a thread saying they don't get the love. Sometimes they are rather aggressive and in return the thread can become a clusterf***. Now outside of the WWE, I will openly admit I jump at every chance I can to defend and promote CZW. It's my favorite indy thread, I have friends that work for the company, and am on friendly terms with wrestlers in the company. I know CZW was built on ultraviolence, but I hate when people bash CZW anymore without actually watching (They do Deathmatch stuff still but not as much). If it isn't for you that's fine, but when somebody on this board (and this legit did happen) says they know CZW because they watch Botchamania... that's not a valid point.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 11, 2013 14:14:56 GMT -5
I've never, ever read someone criticise Heyman which seeing how he ran his businesses and the level of intense scrutiny everyone else in the industry is under by fans, I find extraordinary. I remember a while back there was a thread listing the biggest scumbags in wrestling, and many agreed that Heyman ranks pretty high up there.
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 11, 2013 14:21:03 GMT -5
I am SO DONE with the "If you're going to complain, why do you watch it?" question. Am I just crazy or is the Ask/Answer on that question like someone unraveling a "big cable-knit sweater"? Was I in a Pokemon battle and someone hit me with CONFUSION? Was it "SUPER EFFECTIVE!" because it's like I'm punching myself in the head while I'm still trying to pull off "Measured Reply." "Why do you still watch it?" has been answered again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and once more with feeling and again and again and again and shouted from the rafters and again and again and again and within the cone of silence and again and again... People really need to stop asking that question, even rhetorically, because the reason why anyone watches this show is frankly none of anyone else's business. It doesn't have to hold up to any kind of scrutiny. SO STOP COMPLAINING IRRATIONALLY ABOUT IT! It is just as tiresome to read endless threads of "I'm done. Superman wins again." The IWC who complain thusly are like the five-year-old boy who tells his parents that they're mean, he hates them, and he's running away. His parents pack him a suitcase, and say goodbye. An hour later, he's still sitting on the porch step, wanting to eat dinner. I think a lot of people keep watching because WWEs quality, to a lot of people, is one of the most unpredictable things on television. The main storyline has been fairly mediocre for a few months now, but then they go and deliver some solid fried gold like that end segment of this weeks Raw. WWE isn't like most television shows where the quality may rise or dip by season. It can literally be terrible one week and amazing the next.
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