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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 2, 2014 11:31:06 GMT -5
Yeah. Bret certainly believes it, but it's clear from his account and subsequent accounts that Vince was essentially playing the two of them against one another. Not an example of refusing to do the job, but Foley refused to work with Mark Mero in the WWF. Shawn refused return the favor at WM XII and job to Bret Hart. What's the story behind Austin refusing to do a program with Double J? I know Foley has been critical of Mero but why doesn't he like Mero again? Did something happen in WCW? In his book he says that he's fine with Mero, but that he didn't think that Mero deserved to be making enough money to be in a different tax bracket from him. He felt that he was more talented and worth more of an investment than Mero--so he didn't want to work with him out of principle. He spoke with Mero about this right after he spoke with management about it. Apparently they understood one another and there was no heat. Let me go find my book and I'll make sure my memory is right on this: 10:20 (Begins Research) 10:21 "Also of interest on this taping was that it was Marc Mero's first taping. Unlike me, Mero had come into World Wrestling Entertainment with considerably more than just an opportunity. This fact would both annoy and drive me over the next several months. Marc's actually a decent guy, who at one time was a good friend of mine. But business is business, and the fact is that Mero didn't draw. He sure did know how to make money, though." An aside: This is like my fourth copy of the book. It's newer printing. Every instance of the WWF or Word Wrestling Federation has been changed to WWE or World Wrestling Entertainment. There is no acknowledgement of the change or the fact that the WWF ever existed. Certain incidents even change the fabric of history in order to go along with this fact. When he's feuding with Dreamer in ECW, he wears a shirt that says "WW F'N E" instead of "WW F'N F" years and years before the WWE ever existed! If, in future centuries, my copy is excavated from the ruins of my home...it could be the only text in existence that deals with the peculiar art-form known as American Professional Wrestling. In this clearly post-Apocalyptic future, there would be no proof that the WWF even existed.
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Moppy
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,198
Member is Online
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Post by Moppy on Jan 2, 2014 12:58:13 GMT -5
Just to throw in my two cents on Summerslam 99... watching "Thy Kingdom Come" it's HEAVILY implied that Austin didn't want to drop the title to HHH that night, to the point where in Trips' talking head interview, he almost looks apologetic that he might be making Austin look bad.
I think Foley has a talking head on the same subject and while I forget what he says, it's along similar lines. There's notably no quote from Austin on Summerslam 99 in that DVD.
Make of that what you will.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 2, 2014 15:54:15 GMT -5
History probably validated Trips on that one. Had the arrest happened shortly after Trips had the match result changed to benefit him you'd probably have a point, but it happened several years later to an older, less motivated RVD who had a drug buddy to hang with... What history really does show, however, is the audience steadily declining through Triple H's run as a one man glass ceiling. Whether he got caught the day after or years later doesn't change the fact that he and Sabu were being entrusted with a lot of TV time and pushes and it happened still, when he had every reason to be motivated, with a huge push. I feel we would be extending a hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt that he was on his best behavior before, and not just lucky.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 2, 2014 17:01:37 GMT -5
Had the arrest happened shortly after Trips had the match result changed to benefit him you'd probably have a point, but it happened several years later to an older, less motivated RVD who had a drug buddy to hang with... What history really does show, however, is the audience steadily declining through Triple H's run as a one man glass ceiling. Whether he got caught the day after or years later doesn't change the fact that he and Sabu were being entrusted with a lot of TV time and pushes and it happened still, when he had every reason to be motivated, with a huge push. I feel we would be extending a hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt that he was on his best behavior before, and not just lucky. He didn't at the time in question though, nor for some time after and when he was busted, did it cause as much harm to the company as Triple H's running roughshod over every face on Raw? I'm not so sure.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 2, 2014 17:31:01 GMT -5
No title on the line, but Gary Hart told a story about booking in Texas and being approached by Bruiser Brody and Abdullah the Butcher, both friends of his, wanting to do a cage match on an upcoming big card. Knowing neither of them liked to do jobs, Gary asked who would do the favors. They promised they would work it out so Gary booked it.
Showtime came, the cage was up, and introductions were about to start. Gary found Abby and Bruiser sitting in the dressing room, just looking at each other. "Guys, it's time to go, what are you doing?" "We don't know." "What do you mean, you don't know? You told me you could settle it, that's why I agreed to book it in the first place!" "Well, you're the booker, figure out a way out." "No. You told me you'd work out a winner. Get out there and do it."
Gary said he took a seat at ringside and watched as Bruiser and Abby went into the cage with no finish. He said that after about 45 minutes of some pretty bad action, "Bruiser succumbed to the boredom of it all and got tired of Abby laying the 400 lbs on him and did the favors."
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 2, 2014 17:34:11 GMT -5
Hogan not wanting to lose to Bret isn't really substantiated nor makes logical sense looking at how things panned out. Yeah. Bret certainly believes it, but it's clear from his account and subsequent accounts that Vince was essentially playing the two of them against one another. Not an example of refusing to do the job, but Foley refused to work with Mark Mero in the WWF. Shawn refused return the favor at WM XII and job to Bret Hart. What's the story behind Austin refusing to do a program with Double J? With Jarrett, a lot of guys who came up through his Dad's territory held a grudge against him because Jerry paid most of the boys peanuts compared to his son, and Double J a few times made sarcastic comments about it while in the territory. Nope. Remember right before the relaunch of ECW RVD was rejuvenated and was going harder in the ring than he had since his return from the knee injury. He really didn't stop giving a shit until he found out that Vince had no plans of putting ECW as equal to Raw or Smackdown then he was actively trying to get out of his deal.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 2, 2014 17:47:56 GMT -5
No title on the line, but Gary Hart told a story about booking in Texas and being approached by Bruiser Brody and Abdullah the Butcher, both friends of his, wanting to do a cage match on an upcoming big card. Knowing neither of them liked to do jobs, Gary asked who would do the favors. They promised they would work it out so Gary booked it. Showtime came, the cage was up, and introductions were about to start. Gary found Abby and Bruiser sitting in the dressing room, just looking at each other. "Guys, it's time to go, what are you doing?" "We don't know." "What do you mean, you don't know? You told me you could settle it, that's why I agreed to book it in the first place!" "Well, you're the booker, figure out a way out." "No. You told me you'd work out a winner. Get out there and do it." Gary said he took a seat at ringside and watched as Bruiser and Abby went into the cage with no finish. He said that after about 45 minutes of some pretty bad action, "Bruiser succumbed to the boredom of it all and got tired of Abby laying the 400 lbs on him and did the favors." Based on this description I'd bet money that neither guy had any problem jobbing in this match as much as they just wanted to play a rib on Gary Hart.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,455
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jan 2, 2014 19:06:27 GMT -5
Wasn't there an issue about RVD being reckless and injuring people in 2002 too? And he did injure HHH pretty badly in The Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series that year.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 2, 2014 19:14:30 GMT -5
Wasn't there an issue about RVD being reckless and injuring people in 2002 too? And he did injure HHH pretty badly in The Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series that year. Yeah, he injured Trips, Shawn, Jericho, and Angle off the top of my head. The last couple of pages of the old news from the Observer thread actually has something on it from that time.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jan 2, 2014 19:58:48 GMT -5
I've often wondered if Paul Heyman had some reluctance towards putting RVD on top as world champ in ECW was due to his constant marijuana promotion. Not that it was a huge performance issue, but one does wonder if Heyman thought the potential for such an event as July 2006 was possible. Or maybe Heyman always intended to put the belt on RVD and never quite put together the money match? I dunno. Either way why is HHH vindicated here? Because RVD got fined 4 years later for having weed and speeding? Now if we're arguing that RVD lost all interest in full time wrestling after 2007, then that's an interesting argument against pushing him too hard. Of course if he hadn't been politically sabotaged for most of the 2002-04 time period, maybe RVD would have cared more about staying with WWE? It is ironic that a guy with his credentials (grand slam champion in WWE, TNA world champ, ECW run) would be almost considered a disappointment, but he never quite ascended to consistent main event status. Eh, I doubt Heyman cared about that at all. A.) The world champ getting arrested for weed would basically be a non issue for ECW, maybe even a positive. It's not like the consequences for simple posession are severe, maybe a night in jail, a fine and maybe probation. B.) Heyman's promo at the first One Night Stand PPV. "I haven't been crying, my eyes are red because I just smoked a joint in the back with Van Dam." That line tells me that even if Heyman doesn't smoke, he doesn't consider it to be a serious issue in the least
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 15:07:59 GMT -5
Not for a title (but roughly related as it had to do with KOTR placement), Austin going home instead of losing to Lesnar. I thought Austin's problem with that match was that he felt it was being completely wasted on Raw, yes? He had no problem working with Lesnar but thought they should build it up to a PPV so they'd make money on it, rather than a pointless one-shot KOTR qualifying match on free TV. Not sure. Austin was probably wary of getting hurt again (although IIRC he did not personally hold the neck injury against Owen), and HBK - thanks to his drug issues at the time I think - was ultra-paranoid that Owen would legit hurt him, and somehow successful nudged Vince to his side.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 3, 2014 15:15:49 GMT -5
I know Foley has been critical of Mero but why doesn't he like Mero again? Did something happen in WCW? In his book he says that he's fine with Mero, but that he didn't think that Mero deserved to be making enough money to be in a different tax bracket from him. He felt that he was more talented and worth more of an investment than Mero--so he didn't want to work with him out of principle. He spoke with Mero about this right after he spoke with management about it. Apparently they understood one another and there was no heat. Let me go find my book and I'll make sure my memory is right on this: 10:20 (Begins Research) 10:21 "Also of interest on this taping was that it was Marc Mero's first taping. Unlike me, Mero had come into World Wrestling Entertainment with considerably more than just an opportunity. This fact would both annoy and drive me over the next several months. Marc's actually a decent guy, who at one time was a good friend of mine. But business is business, and the fact is that Mero didn't draw. He sure did know how to make money, though." An aside: This is like my fourth copy of the book. It's newer printing. Every instance of the WWF or Word Wrestling Federation has been changed to WWE or World Wrestling Entertainment. There is no acknowledgement of the change or the fact that the WWF ever existed. Certain incidents even change the fabric of history in order to go along with this fact. When he's feuding with Dreamer in ECW, he wears a shirt that says "WW F'N E" instead of "WW F'N F" years and years before the WWE ever existed! If, in future centuries, my copy is excavated from the ruins of my home...it could be the only text in existence that deals with the peculiar art-form known as American Professional Wrestling. In this clearly post-Apocalyptic future, there would be no proof that the WWF even existed. Slightly better are other books that seem to replace every location "the WWF" or even "the World Wrestling Federation" appears in with "World Wrestling Federation." No "the." Leading to many quotes sounding like they were given by bad foreigner stereotypes.
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auph10imitated
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 4,951
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Post by auph10imitated on Jan 3, 2014 19:36:30 GMT -5
According to Luna Vachon, Sable would continuously "forget to bring the Women's Belt" to the arena several times as a way of getting out of dropping it too her in 1999. Not sure how true that is mind.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Jan 3, 2014 19:52:59 GMT -5
I've heard that Dolph Ziggler was supposed to win the IC title in his 2009 feud with Rey Mysterio but Rey-Rey put the kibosh on it because he didn't feel that Ziggler was ready. I feel Rey was justified though. He'd just come out of a huge, personal feud with Jericho over the title & his mask & come out on top. It would have been a bad decision to just have him lose it instantly to Ziggler. Rey had no problem losing to Ziggler, it just wasn't the right time to do it - I believe they planned to do it at Breaking Point but things didn't go that way unfortunately. Not related to your post. Just had to say you have the creepiest sig in the history of creepy sigs. That chick is creepy enough in still pics. That GIF is like a mini-horror movie
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Post by eDemento2099 on Jan 3, 2014 20:05:03 GMT -5
Gypsy Joe refused to sell for New Jack, and the results are comedic.
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Post by DASH 243✅ on Jan 3, 2014 22:17:37 GMT -5
I read a long time ago a story about Ed "Strangler" lewis, I don't remember who his opponent was but he was supposed to drop the title to him. Instead he went out beat the guy up and left.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 3, 2014 22:57:28 GMT -5
I read a long time ago a story about Ed "Strangler" lewis, I don't remember who his opponent was but he was supposed to drop the title to him. Instead he went out beat the guy up and left. Lou Thesz told a great story in his book about Lewis negotiating for a match with "The Golden Greek" Jim Londos. Londos had been telling the promoter for some time that he could take Lewis in a shoot if it came to it, and the promoter believed him without question. The 2 met with the promoter to discuss money, the finish, etc. Lewis was willing to go to a draw, but not do a job. The promoter kept pushing for a Londos win, and Ed kept pushing back. Finally, the promoter said, "Why do you have to argue, Ed? We all know Jim could take you." Ed looked at both men and said something like, "Oh, is that so? We all know it?" Londos, backed into a bit of a corner and not wanting to lose face with the promoter, said, "Come one, Ed - I could put a butterfly on my back and you'd never see it." Ed "Strangler" Lewis responded, "I'd take that butterfly, put it on the end of my cock, and stick it up your Greek ass before you could squeal!" Needless to say, the match didn't happen.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 3, 2014 23:52:23 GMT -5
Another Gary Hart story involving Abby and doing a job: I think this happened in Georgia. Hart was beginning a push for Mark Lewin, and knew that a win over Abby would go a long way to that end. So, he told Abdullah it would be a 2/3 falls match with Mark taking the first fall with the sleeper, Abby taking the 2nd with his spike, and Abby getting DQ'd in the 3rd fall. He agreed to that.
They went 7 or 8 minutes, Mark got the sleeper and won. He left the ring. Gary went in and "woke Abby up." He looked around and asked, "Where's Mark?" Gary replied, "You're the mark. It was a one fall match." He claimed to have actually done that kind of thing to Abby more than once.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,713
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jan 4, 2014 0:23:21 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread... did anyone mention the Hogan/Gordy match that was originally booked for the All Japan "Wrestling Summit" show? Gordy was going to be challenging for the Triple Crown and someone (some people say Stan Hansen) got into Gordy's ear that he would look bad if he lost to Hogan, so the match was changed to Hogan vs. Hansen.
At least, that's what I've heard.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,478
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jan 4, 2014 5:58:03 GMT -5
What's up with Vince McMahon letting people get away with refusing to do what he pays them to do? Seems like his biggest weakness.
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