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Post by wildojinx on Dec 30, 2013 15:56:03 GMT -5
Both WWF/E and WCW had tons of celebrity involvement through the years. Which one used celebrities in the right way?
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Dec 30, 2013 23:27:38 GMT -5
WWF:
Without celebrity involvement we wouldn't have Wrestlemania
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 31, 2013 3:15:02 GMT -5
WWF: Without celebrity involvement we wouldn't have Wrestlemania This. WWE used celebrities to build the golden age, resurrect and restart with Attitude (Tyson), and score a huge Wrestlemania box-office gate with Trump at 24, and Rock (more over as a movie star than wrestler to casuals) for 27,28 and 29. |
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Dec 31, 2013 3:38:21 GMT -5
Lol, WCW did which is why the poll results are so amusing.
WCW would use celebrities and most of the time it'd result in some mainstream attention for them. Compare that to WWE who have only had a few celebrities get them strong media attention. They've had a lot of failures.
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Dec 31, 2013 5:24:48 GMT -5
WCW would use celebrities and most of the time it'd result in some mainstream attention for them. Compare that to WWE who have only had a few celebrities get them strong media attention. They've had a lot of failures. Yeah Robocop sure was a draw. The Dennis Rodman matches were classics. Jay Leno? New boom period! The question should be "Which company went out of business in large part to grossly overpaying celebs and cramming them down viewers throats?" {Spoiler} It's the one that put a world title on David Arquette...not the one that got massive PPV buys for Lawrence Taylor and Mike Tyson then said thanks for coming. |
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Dec 31, 2013 5:25:59 GMT -5
Also voted for WWE just cause Pete Rose.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 31, 2013 7:26:56 GMT -5
WCW would use celebrities and most of the time it'd result in some mainstream attention for them. Compare that to WWE who have only had a few celebrities get them strong media attention. They've had a lot of failures. Yeah Robocop sure was a draw. The Dennis Rodman matches were classics. Jay Leno? New boom period! The question should be "Which company went out of business in large part to grossly overpaying celebs and cramming them down viewers throats?" {Spoiler} It's the one that put a world title on David Arquette...not the one that got massive PPV buys for Lawrence Taylor and Mike Tyson then said thanks for coming. Don't forget how much Master P added, or Kiss, I mean the Demon even had a "Special Main Event". Seriously, this isn't even close, WWE even drew with Donald freaking Trump, one of the last people you'd think would fit in wrestling. I'm trying to think of these failures.. Shatner? That horrible Kid Rock concert at Wrestlemania? Edit: Ah of course, the guest hosts of RAW, I'd forgotten them, yes the vast majority were terrible, I concede that. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 31, 2013 7:47:31 GMT -5
WWF, I'm choosing to count it as a separate entity as the WWE, which for every good celebrity use, has had far more that didn't really work. The guest host era was as much of a mess as Turner using WCW to plug their other films and shows.
If it wasn't for WCW putting the belt on David Arquette showing how horrible an idea it is, you would have seen one or more guest hosts hold a major WWE title. They'd shown they really were that desperate for attention and didn't care a jot about the belts meaning anything, nor for the dignity of the belt's previous holder.
And don't get me started about the mini concerts, people go on and on about KISS, but you think P. Diddy was working for free? Guy is all about the money.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Dec 31, 2013 8:02:30 GMT -5
Yeah Robocop sure was a draw. The Dennis Rodman matches were classics. Jay Leno? New boom period! The question should be "Which company went out of business in large part to grossly overpaying celebs and cramming them down viewers throats?" {Spoiler} It's the one that put a world title on David Arquette...not the one that got massive PPV buys for Lawrence Taylor and Mike Tyson then said thanks for coming. Don't forget how much Master P added, or Kiss, I mean the Demon even had a "Special Main Event". Seriously, this isn't even close, WWE even drew with Donald freaking Trump, one of the last people you'd think would fit in wrestling. I'm trying to think of these failures.. Shatner? That horrible Kid Rock concert at Wrestlemania? Edit: Ah of course, the guest hosts of RAW, I'd forgotten them, yes the vast majority were terrible, I concede that. WCW also had Man-Cow. Man-Fricken-Cow. WCW never had any celebrity failures. |
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on Dec 31, 2013 8:11:03 GMT -5
Kevin Federline is 1-0 against John Cena.
That's all I wanted to say.
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jagilki
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Post by jagilki on Dec 31, 2013 10:02:38 GMT -5
May of been a closer poll if it was TNA vs. WCW.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 10:08:07 GMT -5
I loved WCW, far more than the WWF and even I have to admit that WWF did it better. When you talk about wrestling's use of celebrities the ones that instantly pop to mind for good are Mr. T and Mike Tyson. When you try to think of the bad ones the mind instantly goes to Arquette and Leno. WCW had exactly one decent one and that was Malone.
(That said, Malone was AWESOME)
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Dec 31, 2013 10:18:15 GMT -5
WCW would use celebrities and most of the time it'd result in some mainstream attention for them. Compare that to WWE who have only had a few celebrities get them strong media attention. They've had a lot of failures. Yeah Robocop sure was a draw. The Dennis Rodman matches were classics. Jay Leno? New boom period! The question should be "Which company went out of business in large part to grossly overpaying celebs and cramming them down viewers throats?" {Spoiler} It's the one that put a world title on David Arquette...not the one that got massive PPV buys for Lawrence Taylor and Mike Tyson then said thanks for coming. You're right, Robocop was as much of a draw as Snookie. It's funny you mention Rodman, he was a draw, he got WCW mainstream press. Hell, Go to YouTube and you can see Rodman and Hogan appearing on Leno, Howard Stern and other big shows from the 90's. WWE has tons of failed celebs with the Guest Host idea. Federline got them no mainstream press and all the other smaller celebrities they used never got them much press at all. Arquette got WCW press, Leno got them press, Rodman got them press, Malone got them press, Hell, even that Chef who joined the nWo got them press. |
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 31, 2013 11:07:04 GMT -5
The weird thing is, sometimes WCW wouldnt promote the mainstream appearances. For example, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper, and Bobby Heenan all appeared on Politically Incorrect around 96-97, yet WCW didnt promote it (they mentioned it after the fact of course). Another time Goldberg met Mark McGwire during McGwire's "home run record" run. According to Heenan, McGwire ripped goldberg's shirt off and rubbed his bat against the shirt, yet when wcw talked about it they just showed a brief photo op with him and Goldberg. And of course, there was James Brown's appearance at Superbrawl 2000.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 31, 2013 11:28:55 GMT -5
WWF/E (almost) always used celebrities to enhance their existing talent (or at least up until the guest host era). WCW's celebrities either contributed nothing or completely overshadowed their own talent.
Although, while WCW may get ridiculed for stupid business practices, someone in that company had to be a hell of a salesman. They got Kevin Greene, Reggie White, Karl Malone, and Dennis Rodman to actually work main event matches in the prime of their careers. I mean these guys are hall of fame level stars. Until WWE gets John Cena and Tim Duncan taking on Triple H and Lebron James as the main event of Summerslam, or let Clay Matthews work a tag match and have the finish being him getting hit over the head with a Halliburton, the 'E has to take a backseat in pure negotiating skill.
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Dec 31, 2013 12:40:10 GMT -5
Yeah Robocop sure was a draw. The Dennis Rodman matches were classics. Jay Leno? New boom period! The question should be "Which company went out of business in large part to grossly overpaying celebs and cramming them down viewers throats?" {Spoiler} It's the one that put a world title on David Arquette...not the one that got massive PPV buys for Lawrence Taylor and Mike Tyson then said thanks for coming. You're right, Robocop was as much of a draw as Snookie. It's funny you mention Rodman, he was a draw, he got WCW mainstream press. Hell, Go to YouTube and you can see Rodman and Hogan appearing on Leno, Howard Stern and other big shows from the 90's. WWE has tons of failed celebs with the Guest Host idea. Federline got them no mainstream press and all the other smaller celebrities they used never got them much press at all. Arquette got WCW press, Leno got them press, Rodman got them press, Malone got them press, Hell, even that Chef who joined the nWo got them press. Yup I forgot about the RAW guest hosts...or I blocked them out due to trauma. 100% right about that. But getting press does not equal buys or ratings.(The only PPV that did big numbers was Hogan/Rodman vs Page/Malone. Everything else tanked) Why didn't Drew Carey win the Royal Rumble? Because it was not worth a paragraph in USA today. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 31, 2013 12:41:11 GMT -5
WWF/E (almost) always used celebrities to enhance their existing talent (or at least up until the guest host era). WCW's celebrities either contributed nothing or completely overshadowed their own talent. Although, while WCW may get ridiculed for stupid business practices, someone in that company had to be a hell of a salesman. They got Kevin Greene, Reggie White, Karl Malone, and Dennis Rodman to actually work main event matches in the prime of their careers. I mean these guys are hall of fame level stars. Until WWE gets John Cena and Tim Duncan taking on Triple H and Lebron James as the main event of Summerslam, or let Clay Matthews work a tag match and have the finish being him getting hit over the head with a Halliburton, the 'E has to take a backseat in pure negotiating skill. Although saying that, do those 4 names mean anything outside of America? Rodman does and that's about it. WWF got more INTERNATIONAL celebrities. Obviously there are exceptions, but Kevin Greene and Reggie White? Almost literally unheard of outside America. Saying WWE needs Lebron to match that is a little silly when they had Mike Tyson knock out HBK after the main event of a Wrestlemania and Mayweather take on the Big Show. As for SOR, you can't even remember the name of one of the guys you're citing as a celebrity, it doesn't help your argument. Comparing a few minor celebs WWE have used against the biggest names WCW pulled in isn't exactly a balanced argument. If you're citing a 3rd rate guest host, you have to compare them to that Mancow guy, if you're using Jay Leno and David Arquette, you have to compare them with Ali and Tyson, who helped launch the WWF's 2 boom periods. |
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 31, 2013 12:54:47 GMT -5
WWF/E (almost) always used celebrities to enhance their existing talent (or at least up until the guest host era). WCW's celebrities either contributed nothing or completely overshadowed their own talent. Although, while WCW may get ridiculed for stupid business practices, someone in that company had to be a hell of a salesman. They got Kevin Greene, Reggie White, Karl Malone, and Dennis Rodman to actually work main event matches in the prime of their careers. I mean these guys are hall of fame level stars. Until WWE gets John Cena and Tim Duncan taking on Triple H and Lebron James as the main event of Summerslam, or let Clay Matthews work a tag match and have the finish being him getting hit over the head with a Halliburton, the 'E has to take a backseat in pure negotiating skill. Although saying that, do those 4 names mean anything outside of America? Rodman does and that's about it. WWF got more INTERNATIONAL celebrities. Obviously there are exceptions, but Kevin Greene and Reggie White? Almost literally unheard of outside America. Saying WWE needs Lebron to match that is a little silly when they had Mike Tyson knock out HBK after the main event of a Wrestlemania and Mayweather take on the Big Show. As for SOR, you can't even remember the name of one of the guys you're citing as a celebrity, it doesn't help your argument. Comparing a few minor celebs WWE have used against the biggest names WCW pulled in isn't exactly a balanced argument. If you're citing a 3rd rate guest host, you have to compare them to that Mancow guy, if you're using Jay Leno and David Arquette, you have to compare them with Ali and Tyson, who helped launch the WWF's 2 boom periods. Sure that's fair about them being American, but WCW wasn't an international company like WWE is, and most of their business is still domestic. And there is a difference in Mike Tyson knocking out Shawn Michaels after a match where he was a bystander and Karl Malone working a 20 minute match and taking a bunch of legit bumps. The Mayweather one is a little closer, but he really didn't take any bumps at all. Big Show just chased him and beat the shit out of his posse. All of the guys I mentioned legit worked matches. And while they may not be international stars, NFL football has been the most popular television program in the United States for the last 30 years at least and these guys were some of the faces of the league. I would argue that star NFL football players are more famous in America than Floyd Mayweather. To get them to agree to work a legit match and in both cases be hit over the head with gimmicks is more impressive then being some noninvolved "special enforcer" in my opinion. EDIT: And just to be clear, I think WWE has used their celebrities better. I'm just saying that WCW deserves some recognition for getting these elite-level famous pro athletes to take on that level of participation. There's no argument that when you have Goldberg, Nash, DDP, Sting, and a slew of other stars (who were bordering on mainstream at that point), you probably don't need Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, and Jay Leno main eventing your PPVs. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 31, 2013 14:02:49 GMT -5
Ah ok, I get your point better now. It's true, they did get them to work matches, I'm not sure if that was a consious choice or not but fair play.
As for the international thing, that's a different argument, WCW arguably had a better TV deal in the UK, maybe if they'd exploited things they could have weathered the storm a bit better like mid 90s WWF but that's for another time.
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Dat Dude
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Post by Dat Dude on Dec 31, 2013 14:10:15 GMT -5
You would think it would be WWF/E with their great use of Tyson and Mr. T. Then when you think about all the terribleness caused by the Raw guest host era, I think their track record has gone down a bit. Bringing in celebs is supposed to draw in non-fans, and when non-fans hear about celebs being involved with wrestling they assume/want those celebs to take on wrestlers. Which WCW did (right or wrong) and WWF scarcely did.
Plus the Chucky vs. Rick Steiner feud was gold and you know it!
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