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Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 17:14:52 GMT -5
You're taking your situation and applying it to an entire group of people; surely you can understand why this is the wrong thing to do. Yeah, you lacked self control and you worked out and got in shape. That's awesome for you, but you're assuming that your story is a mirror image of every obese person's story and that's just flat out not right. There could be a multitude of factors at hand as to why somebody is obese, and "lacking self control" isn't a guarantee in all of them. Is it a case in some of them? Absolutely. It is a case in most of them? Maybe. Is it a case in all of them? No. There could be numerous medical problems, both physical and mental, at hand that contribute to a person's obesity, and it's such a case-by-case thing that you can't round up every obese person and say "this is the cause". It's not fair and it's not right. I'm not saying that every single obese person ever has suffered from lacking self control and/or that it is the cause of that obesity. I said that it is a SIGN--a symptom, an indicator--of lacking self control. Please refer to the handful of posts above what you posted. When you say this, As someone who used to be obese but isn't anymore...yes, being fat is definitely a sign of lacking self-control. No matter how you meant it, that comes across as you saying that obesity is caused by self-control. Not a "symptom" of, not a "possibility" of, but your words indicate that you're saying obesity is caused by self-control. And, your post about your personal story pretty much confirms my suspicions that you absolutely meant obesity is caused by lack of self-control, and not just a "possible factor".
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 13, 2014 17:15:42 GMT -5
I'm not fat because I lack self control,I'm fat because I like to show off my wealth.I'm like a King.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:17:16 GMT -5
I'm not saying that every single obese person ever has suffered from lacking self control and/or that it is the cause of that obesity. I said that it is a SIGN--a symptom, an indicator--of lacking self control. Please refer to the handful of posts above what you posted. When you say this, As someone who used to be obese but isn't anymore...yes, being fat is definitely a sign of lacking self-control. No matter how you meant it, that comes across as you saying that obesity is caused by self-control. Not a "symptom" of, not a "possibility" of, but your words indicate that you're saying obesity is caused by self-control. And, your post about your personal story pretty much confirms my suspicions that you absolutely meant obesity is caused by lack of self-control, and not just a "possible factor". Why did I choose my wording? Because I'm being a smartass, and that's the same wording that the oversensitive crusader in the OP used. And that's pretty much it.
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shaker
Team Rocket
The numbers don't lie - and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice!
Posts: 779
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Post by shaker on Jan 13, 2014 17:19:58 GMT -5
If those fat people spent half as much time working out and cooking healthy as they did on this crusade, they wouldn't be fat any more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:20:53 GMT -5
I'm in Art Ruth's camp. Obesity is a personal weakness. Unless you've the most ambitious thyroid ever, you are fat because you live the life of a fat person. Whether it's just a lack of self control or a psychological hang up is immaterial. You have to rise out of it same as you would with addiction to drugs, alcohol, gambling, pornography, etc. Don't try to pawn it off on some bullshit. So, if somebody is struggling with weight because they have psychological issues, it's their fault and they should just 'get over it'? The girl with anorexia, the girl with bulimia and the dude who has an eating addiction should just 'get over it' and, essentially, be ashamed of themselves because they have mental problems? You're trying to make light of a very serious thing because you don't see how serious it is, and in turn you're greatly underestimating the effect that psychological issues can have on people. The general consensus on obese people seems to be "oh, fatty fat fatty can't stop eatin' MacDonalds!", when there could be problems at hand that you'd never know about unless you were that person. If somebody is addicted to substances society by and large has sympathy towards them, so why is it that obese people with severe health problems are held at the level of second class citizens because of their size? It's a disgusting, judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that has to stop. Negative. It's a battle, to be sure, but it ain't some special thing that needs up on a pedestal. I agree with you that recovering addicts somehow get held in higher esteem than people that were doing it right the whole time for whatever dumb reason though. Why they are special and the obese are not is quite stupid and mysterious. They are equally victims of themselves and face health risks as a result of the choices they've made.
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 13, 2014 17:22:46 GMT -5
I'm fit... I run, I eat right, and my body hasn't screwed me over with conditions that I can't overcome through those two things.
Know what I also do? I avoid kicking people when they're already down. Society already punishes fat people enough for being fat, whether it's something they have control over or not. I figure they don't need to get their faces ground in the dirt any more than they already do. Maybe that's irresponsible... maybe if I just showed enough disgust for them, fat people would magically melt off the pounds in ways they never did when it was just everyone else calling them disgusting. But I doubt it. I think it's better to acknowledge that since I don't know everything about another person, it's impossible for me to say why they're the way they are. That's a) true, and b) reasonable. And it doesn't hurt them.
I think it's nice to avoid hurting people, when you can.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2014 17:23:48 GMT -5
The Wii Fit trainer post seems like a joke, and if it isn't then I feel for the person who wrote that, because outside of using the very dated and inaccurate BMI metric there's incredibly little about Wii Fit that could be looked at as "fat-ist" or encouraging thin privilege, if that's the proper term. Tumblr is a great place for a lot of people; my girlfriend is a gamer and also Cuban, and she often feels like it's one of the few venues online where she can see her own perspectives (female, Latina, taking part in a pop-subculture that's usually dominated by men) and frustrations represented and expressed online, all without the fear of having somebody turn around and call her awful racist names or treating her in a misogynistic way. I'm sure there's plenty of people on there who chase after shadows and go out of their way to feel offended, but there's much more people who often have very different perspectives from the mainstream who simply want a platform to air them out and be heard. If anything, I'd whole-heartedly encourage that. Again, some folks may take it too far and see great offense where there is none, but I fail to see the harm in it, and would rather focus on the greater positive it gives folks who otherwise might feel their perspectives are marginalized. In a totally different direction than you started in? You said that "being fat is a sign of lacking self-control", a definitive statement, and a wholly untrue one; many fat people do not lack self-control, and many people lacking self-control are not fat. Hence, no, even changing the word to "symptom", the claim is still untrue. If the point was "being fat can overlap with lacking self-control", then fine, but that's clearly not what your opening statement was. It's not in a different direction. I just summed up for you why saying obesity is a sign of lacking self control is just another way of saying it's a symptom of lacking self control, which therefore means that someone can (but does not necessarily) have issues with self control if they are obese. Being fat can overlap with lacking self control. It can also be caused by lacking self control. And that's my point because the moral police on tumblr seem to think that such a thing is patently untrue and cannot be the case. If you believe the "moral police" (even more deadly than the dreaded "PC Police", I'm sure) think there can never be any overlap with a lack of self-control and obesity, then you're projecting something on them something fierce. There's a teensy-tiny difference between "there's never any correlation between the two" and being annoyed at it usually being the way that fatness is depicted in media, and responding to what one feels is a propagation of harmful stereotypes. EDIT: And before you counter with it, no, just saying "but he said it isn't a sign!" still isn't an answer when your statement remains factually incorrect.
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Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 17:24:17 GMT -5
Why did I choose my wording? Because I'm being a smartass, and that's the same wording that the oversensitive crusader in the OP used. And that's pretty much it If that's truly the case, then why in this post, I am completely wrong, you say? Then do tell. Why was it that when I stopped eating whole pizzas, potato chips, cookies, desert cakes and hamburgers, and stopped drinking soda all the time, and decided to get some f***ing exercise once in a while that I've lost over 50 pounds? Isn't choosing to show restraint instead of being a glutton and eating more than I need a pretty definitive sign that lacking self-control was the problem? Do you make it clear that lack of self-control is to blame for obesity because that was true in your case? I'm no genius, but I'm smart enough to see your stance on this issue, and it has nothing to do with it being a sign. It's the sign, for you. If those fat people spent half as much time working out and cooking healthy as they did on this crusade, they wouldn't be fat any more. Oh, Jesus Christ.
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Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 17:26:55 GMT -5
So, if somebody is struggling with weight because they have psychological issues, it's their fault and they should just 'get over it'? The girl with anorexia, the girl with bulimia and the dude who has an eating addiction should just 'get over it' and, essentially, be ashamed of themselves because they have mental problems? You're trying to make light of a very serious thing because you don't see how serious it is, and in turn you're greatly underestimating the effect that psychological issues can have on people. The general consensus on obese people seems to be "oh, fatty fat fatty can't stop eatin' MacDonalds!", when there could be problems at hand that you'd never know about unless you were that person. If somebody is addicted to substances society by and large has sympathy towards them, so why is it that obese people with severe health problems are held at the level of second class citizens because of their size? It's a disgusting, judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that has to stop. Negative. It's a battle, to be sure, but it ain't some special thing that needs up on a pedestal. I agree with you that recovering addicts somehow get held in higher esteem than people that were doing it right the whole time for whatever dumb reason though. Why they are special and the obese are not is quite stupid and mysterious. They are equally victims of themselves and face health risks as a result of the choices they've made. You're right, it doesn't need to be on a pedestal, but do we have to be so damn hateful about it? When it comes to obese people, some are just downright HATEFUL. The vitriol from some when it comes to obese people is just flat out disgusting around the internet. I don't disagree that obese people have made choices that hinder them, but I'm arguing the reason behind those choices; for some it's just "it's because they're fat and stupid" when it goes much deeper than that.
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Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 17:29:08 GMT -5
I'm fit... I run, I eat right, and my body hasn't screwed me over with conditions that I can't overcome through those two things. Know what I also do? I avoid kicking people when they're already down. Society already punishes fat people enough for being fat, whether it's something they have control over or not. I figure they don't need to get their faces ground in the dirt any more than they already do. Maybe that's irresponsible... maybe if I just showed enough disgust for them, fat people would magically melt off the pounds in ways they never did when it was just everyone else calling them disgusting. But I doubt it. I think it's better to acknowledge that since I don't know everything about another person, it's impossible for me to say why they're the way they are. That's a) true, and b) reasonable. And it doesn't hurt them. I think it's nice to avoid hurting people, when you can. EXACTLY. We live in a society that spits in the face of fat people and then wonders why they won't just wipe it off and get in shape. Laugh at that big dude in the gym trying to get in shape or that obese dude jogging around the block? Gee, that'll make him want to get in shape right quick!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:31:51 GMT -5
Why did I choose my wording? Because I'm being a smartass, and that's the same wording that the oversensitive crusader in the OP used. And that's pretty much it If that's truly the case, then why in this post, I am completely wrong, you say? Then do tell. Why was it that when I stopped eating whole pizzas, potato chips, cookies, desert cakes and hamburgers, and stopped drinking soda all the time, and decided to get some f***ing exercise once in a while that I've lost over 50 pounds? Isn't choosing to show restraint instead of being a glutton and eating more than I need a pretty definitive sign that lacking self-control was the problem? Do you make it clear that lack of self-control is to blame for obesity because that was true in your case? I'm no genius, but I'm smart enough to see your stance on this issue, and it has nothing to do with it being a sign. It's the sign, for you. If those fat people spent half as much time working out and cooking healthy as they did on this crusade, they wouldn't be fat any more. Oh, Jesus Christ. When I am in a conversation with someone and the best argument they can muster is "I can read your mind!" then I realize that I am dealing with some kind of superhuman entity and that my own mortality is no match for their all-seeing eyes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:32:13 GMT -5
Negative. It's a battle, to be sure, but it ain't some special thing that needs up on a pedestal. I agree with you that recovering addicts somehow get held in higher esteem than people that were doing it right the whole time for whatever dumb reason though. Why they are special and the obese are not is quite stupid and mysterious. They are equally victims of themselves and face health risks as a result of the choices they've made. You're right, it doesn't need to be on a pedestal, but do we have to be so damn hateful about it? When it comes to obese people, some are just downright HATEFUL. The vitriol from some when it comes to obese people is just flat out disgusting around the internet. I don't disagree that obese people have made choices that hinder them, but I'm arguing the reason behind those choices; for some it's just "it's because they're fat and stupid" when it goes much deeper than that. You're asking the wrong guy, brother orange. It ain't like I'm one of the great minds running Today. I guess because it makes for an easy target.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 13, 2014 17:32:33 GMT -5
Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:34:45 GMT -5
It's not in a different direction. I just summed up for you why saying obesity is a sign of lacking self control is just another way of saying it's a symptom of lacking self control, which therefore means that someone can (but does not necessarily) have issues with self control if they are obese. Being fat can overlap with lacking self control. It can also be caused by lacking self control. And that's my point because the moral police on tumblr seem to think that such a thing is patently untrue and cannot be the case. If you believe the "moral police" (even more deadly than the dreaded "PC Police", I'm sure) think there can never be any overlap with a lack of self-control and obesity, then you're projecting something on them something fierce. There's a teensy-tiny difference between "there's never any correlation between the two" and being annoyed at it usually being the way that fatness is depicted in media, and responding to what one feels is a propagation of harmful stereotypes. EDIT: And before you counter with it, no, just saying "but he said it isn't a sign!" still isn't an answer when your statement remains factually incorrect. Sure it's an answer. And it is MY answer. Because HE SAID IT. And I disagree with him, and present my own experience as prove that he is incorrect. My post is in regards to what he said. I don't know what he meant, but he said it's not a sign, and I say that it is. And so, yeah, that's pretty much it.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jan 13, 2014 17:36:35 GMT -5
Each party is right in different ways here. Whilst fatness isn't always a sign of laziness, the vast majority of the time it is. I mean, this time a couple of years back, I weighed 18 stone, purely fat and was really out of shape.
Now, I'm 16.5 stone, only have a bit of a gut and can run for an extended amount of time without starting to feel tired and feel great about myself. And that was without putting too much effort in, basically just cutting out sugary drinks and exercising helped me a lot, as I was polishing of literally 4-5 litres of full fat Pepsi a day sometimes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:41:06 GMT -5
Tumblr comments are news now?
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Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 17:43:23 GMT -5
Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic? I don't really think so, but that doesn't mean the "fatphobic" attitude doesn't exist as a whole. This thread is proof enough that it exists. I know that's not what you were arguing, but still.
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 13, 2014 17:44:16 GMT -5
Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic? No. It's a situation where I understand how it could be read that way, and how someone who's already sensitive about the subject could be hurt by it, but I see it as playing into traditional tropes completely unrelated to fat-shaming. Uncontrollable power = growth in size and rage is a common stereotype in fantasy. That they linked it to uncontrollable eating opened it up to the interpretation of fat-shaming, but I doubt that was intentional... it was probably just intended to explain the size increase.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 13, 2014 17:47:25 GMT -5
Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic? Nah, like I said, it's a fish.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Jan 13, 2014 17:52:52 GMT -5
I have more problems with straggly neckbeards than I do fat dudes.
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