|
Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jan 13, 2014 18:00:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2014 18:01:51 GMT -5
Anecdote is the single worst source of evidence one can ever present when making a point, due to inherent bias. And I'm basically done with this because this is turning into pointing out how the English language backs up the point made by the Tumblr post, but that's just not going to get through. Overlap between two things does not indicate a symptom, sign, clue, manifestation, presage, harbinger, symbol, insert-more-synonyms-here, because sign/symbol creates correlation, while overlap does not. Now pardon me whilst I go talk to this wall in my kitchen. Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic? Eh, from the perspective of a Japanese pop culture that often fat-shames, I guess it can be, since shaming typically indicates a fear of ever displaying the negative tendencies culturally associated with the shamed behavior. I fully understand the anger when a "cursed" character, who's curse involves looking fat and acting uncontrollably, is shown to get better by becoming thin again and becoming composed and proper. For people who routinely get shamed over their weight thanks to the stereotypes attached to it, I get the frustration. Hell, my girlfriend doesn't want to play Super Princess Peach because she can't get around how one of Peach's main attack methods is getting overly emotional; given the historical baggage that comes with equating "women" with "overly emotional/irrational", I get her annoyance.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2014 18:03:35 GMT -5
Can we just talk about the picture in my OP? Do you think it's fatphobic? Nah, like I said, it's a fish. Welllll, they pretty clearly anthropomorphize most of them to give them human qualities...well, besides the whole "using gils to breathe underwater" part of it and all. But going back to the 3D games, their body shapes are, outside of a few exceptions, human.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 13, 2014 18:05:43 GMT -5
Nah, like I said, it's a fish. Welllll, they pretty clearly anthropomorphize most of them to give them human qualities...well, besides the whole "using gils to breathe underwater" part of it and all. But going back to the 3D games, their body shapes are, outside of a few exceptions, human. I'm just being silly, don't mind me.
|
|
|
Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Jan 13, 2014 18:06:19 GMT -5
Before this thread gets locked, I will say it sounds like it's another person trying to make an argument with something that's not. Much like how Zelda is somehow against feminism because you play as a guy who saves a girl.
|
|
|
Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 13, 2014 18:08:58 GMT -5
Before this thread gets locked, I will say it sounds like it's another person trying to make an argument with something that's not. Much like how Zelda is somehow against feminism because you play as a guy who saves a girl. The person you play as is a guy?I thought that was Zelda!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 18:11:02 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat.
Other than that, it is lack of self control.
|
|
|
Post by Orange on Jan 13, 2014 18:22:48 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat. Other than that, it is lack of self control. Absolutely sound statement that in no way generalizes an entire group of people.
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Jan 13, 2014 18:25:49 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat. Other than that, it is lack of self control. So how do you feel about the role of the gut microbiome in obesity? Or that new study discussing OEA and the dopamine pathway?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 18:26:32 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat. Other than that, it is lack of self control. Absolutely sound statement that in no way generalizes an entire group of people. It's not generalising people. If I'm depressed for whatever reason and eat too much to make myself feel better, that's lack of self control. There's nothing wrong with that and there's no shame in needing help to overcome it. But you should be able to say "No, this food won't make me feel better. I need to stop eating." Other than the scenarios I mentioned earlier, being fat is in your control. If you can't keep your weight down, you lack self-control.
|
|
Strotha
Hank Scorpio
In heaven, everything is fine
Posts: 6,384
|
Post by Strotha on Jan 13, 2014 18:27:45 GMT -5
I spent two years in a wheelchair and got fat as a result. It wasn't a lack of self-control, it was literally impossible for me to do anything about it. I've since been walking and lost most of the weight but still have some loose skin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 18:28:26 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat. Other than that, it is lack of self control. So how do you feel about the role of the gut microbiome in obesity? Or that new study discussing OEA and the dopamine pathway? Those would be medical conditions that would physically prevent you from being unable to maintain a healthy weight. Fair enough, I should have stated medical conditions instead of just using thyroid issues as an example. My point still stands though.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
|
Post by The Ichi on Jan 13, 2014 18:38:20 GMT -5
The only way being fat wouldn't be traced back to lack of self-control is if you A) have severe thyroid issues or B) you simply don't care if you get fat/you actively want to be fat. Other than that, it is lack of self control. Absolutely sound statement that in no way generalizes an entire group of people. Um, not that I have much dog in this fight, but what you quoted is pretty much the opposite of generalizing an entire group of people. He specifically listed different subgroups of obesity causes.
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Jan 13, 2014 18:38:37 GMT -5
So how do you feel about the role of the gut microbiome in obesity? Or that new study discussing OEA and the dopamine pathway? Those would be medical conditions that would physically prevent you from being unable to maintain a healthy weight. Fair enough, I should have stated medical conditions instead of just using thyroid issues as an example. My point still stands though. No problem. I just want to make sure everyone's aware that there's a lot we're still figuring out about metabolism... the book isn't closed, or even close to it. Having the obese microbiome, for example, could be the reason 10% of people are fat, or it could be the reason 98% of people are fat. We just don't know. Until we do, making morally judgmental statements about someone's self-control is not only premature, but dangerous in the sense that it can lead to discrimination against people who have done nothing wrong. People who shout about self-control seem to position fatness as a mark of Cain... an outward manifestation that will tell you if someone has self-control or not. But there are skinny people who eat much more than fat people. Hidden offenders, they gorge themselves in front of others with no fear of repercussion, because their bodies keep them lean in spite of their gluttony. Perhaps this is down to the microbiome. If so, is the complement of bacteria in someone's gut really the measure of their worth as a person? Of their virtue, of their willpower? Heaven forfend. But that may be what one is saying when s/he says that obesity is about self-control.
|
|
Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
|
Post by Sektor on Jan 13, 2014 19:24:57 GMT -5
I wish I could enjoy Tumblr, because a lot of what I see from there is very positive. But this is the exact type of thing that keeps me away. The idea that someone sees those screenshots, and jumps the entire f***ing map of possible reactions to get to "Nintendo hates fat people" is something that boggles the mind.
A high-class character classifying turning into a house-sized monster that is incapable of movement as 'undignified' isn't anti-fat.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2014 19:35:11 GMT -5
It also goes into a ton of issues that have nothing to do with self-control (or lack thereof), or even of medical conditions. The simple reality of modern living is that fitness has become a hobby for the wealthy. Obviously that doesn't mean it's closed off to the poor or middle-class; information is out there, there's ways to go about achieving it. However, with our modern-day obsession with body image, it's a much easier game to play for those who can afford or have had access to: -Personal trainers -Better educations concerning fitness, nutrition, food contents, etc. -Expensive gym memberships that offer specific classes -CrossFit and other more extreme programs -Organic and healthier food options -Nannies and baby sitters for the kids, some of whom cook, leading to: -Increased leisure time to use for the sake of exercise -Procedures, ranging from simple non-invasive fat reduction ones to full-on under the knife treatments Again, it doesn't mean the rest of us non-1%ers have no access to fitness; my gym membership doesn't cripple my budget or anything, for example. However, I also have to prioritize what I spend on, and given my body chemistry and build, without these things my natural state is "slightly overweight". I'm working at it, but given that I work seven days a week and attend graduate school, my hours and energy are kind of limited. It's also hard to ignore socio-economic hurdles like the simple availability of better food options in many poorer neighborhoods, and old United States cities that were clearly designed without taking into consideration things like walking or recreation spaces. For people struggling to make ends meet and with very little leisure time (e.g., poor parents in a non-pedestrian friendly city), it can be a lot less about self control and a lot more about what's feasible. Finally, don't forget kids who can't control what they put into their bodies (parents/guardians choose their diets) who might grow up fat and deal with the special brand of mockery and bullying that only other little kids can supply. Again, don't doubt for a moment the body issues that can lead to even in seemingly the most well-adjusted adult. Before this thread gets locked, I will say it sounds like it's another person trying to make an argument with something that's not. Much like how Zelda is somehow against feminism because you play as a guy who saves a girl. That's a bit of an oversimplification; it's not that the Zelda games are somehow maliciously anti-woman, so much as they simply reflect a cultural norm and storytelling trope that most of us accept without a second thought, and some people would like to see challenged, or at least see alternatives offered for. I don't intend to start a detour here, but I think that's at the heart of a lot of criticisms of people who voice offense at something; it's easy to turn things around and make their arguments look silly (and, let's face it, some folks make that REALLY easy to do to them), but the point they're voicing tends to be much deeper than that. It just so happens that very often they write about it in an angry/annoyed/exasperated way, which tends to use simpler language.
|
|
wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
|
Post by wisdomwizard on Jan 13, 2014 19:38:47 GMT -5
I'm 5'11 and a bit husky. I've never been obese, though I was 280 some years ago. No joke, I actually saw a psychologist a decade ago who always made me get on a scale whenever I saw him. I tried to refuse the third time I saw him but he just kept insisting. I never had any weight issues until after I saw that quack. Needless to say, I only had a few appointments with him before my mom got me in touch with a different psychologist real quick. Holy crap, who made that GIF?! That is amazing!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 21:41:43 GMT -5
Your talking about the same game that has a plus size women call Stylish Woman in it?
|
|
Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
|
Post by Mac on Jan 13, 2014 21:51:55 GMT -5
fatphobic? ugh, good lord people seem to go out of their way these days to be offended by anything. People today act as if being offended by something more than someone else is a type of noble venture.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2014 22:04:13 GMT -5
fatphobic? ugh, good lord people seem to go out of their way these days to be offended by anything. People today act as if being offended by something more than someone else is a type of noble venture. And then people act like being offended at others being offended is somehow better.
|
|