How would you run an indie?

[Deleted]

How would YOU manage an indie? Make it successful, profitable and popular? You have as much money as you have in the bank ATM.

[Deleted]

Terrible idea.

[Bad Moon]

Totally ignoring that money stipulation because I'm a broke-ass student, here's my 3 point plan.

1. Find a gimmick for my shows .
2. Hire wrestlers that fit the sort of product I wanna put out and rebrand them based around that gimmick.
3. Promote my shows based on that gimmick.

I don't believe in the three-ring-circus philosophy of wrestling, I'm gonna put on my kind of show and until I'll find my niche. As for what that niche would be some 70s/80s martial arts exploitation movie vibe. So I'd have some of my roster dress up as members of different street gangs and build stables around those, the smaller flippy guys will wrestle in karate gis and headbands, instead of traditional titles there would be bi-annual championship tournaments with (kayfabe) money prizes, maybe even throw in some straight up supernatural gimmicks from time to time like an ancient Asian wrestler with magic powers or a Jason-style zombie serial killer. Like The Warriors meets Street Fighter, only with official rings.
Oh and another big thing to make myself stand out would be to have no DQ/no count out matches all the time (not all of them necessarily bloody wars, but sometimes they will escalate) EXCEPT for the big important grudge matches and tournaments. I'd reinforce the gimmick by making them all cage matches (obviously without the escape-the-cage stipulation), so there can be absolutely no interferences and nobody can get their hands on a weapon. It would almost be like a point of pride, the wrestlers may beat eachother up all the time, but they haven't truly DEFEATED eachother until they had a proper wrestling match with rules.

[HMARK Center]

I have some pretty healthy savings, so my first idea would be "never, ever run a wrestling promotion".

That said, if I suddenly got a whole bunch of silent partners who made it super affordable?

Hmm. I agree with the idea that with the wrestling landscape the way it is, and given how tough it is to get a product off the ground initially, you need a hook/gimmick/niche/specific style that you shoot for at the beginning, which you can fudge around with later should you get popular enough.

I'd probably present things a bit old school in some ways: promos would mostly be done from the entrance way with an "official interviewer" or whatever, I'd really keep down the amount of modern-day mainstream style promos, which I think are poisonous for small companies (and not great for the big ones, either).

Big thing I'd shoot for, beyond solid ring work? Narrative continuity and cohesion. I like applying ideas found on sites like TV Tropes to pro wrestling; as wrestling really is a basic morality play when you strip it down to its bare parts, it shouldn't be ashamed to play up basic tropes and archetypes, and attempt to fit guys into roles that suit them. I'd make it a mission to keep the majority of guys on my roster within their original face/heel alignment, and make it a mandate that turns had to be logical, consistent, and have consequences (unless we have a goofy character or something where the whole point is "he'll flip sides without a second thought" or whatever). Previous encounters and feuds would be mentioned at least in passing, if not focused on, as characters moved on to other things.

Finally, I'd try to do away with something that I think really hurts a lot of young wrestlers (and wrestling fans) today: I'd stop trying to push the bugaboo that if you're competing in my company, your success is marked by how often you main event/win the company's title. This has trained an entire generation of wrestling fans to see "midcard" as "jobbed out and buried", and to not recognize that many wrestlers in ye olden dayes made very nice livings off of being openers on many of the cards they worked. Some guys are simply more cut out for certain roles than other guys are; they shouldn't be degraded because they aren't in the main event, they should be celebrated for what they bring to the overall experience of the show.

Backstage, I'd really try to be fair to my guys, given how scummy many promoters sound, but I'd have no idea what that's like unless I actually lived it.

[SOR]

Hypothetically if I made this thing and it was in the States I'd go with the following:

1. It would be a wrestling school combination because having a wrestling school is the only way to make money in the indies these days unless you have a big budget. I'd have a former big time wrestler or respected indy guy in charge of the training and would throw him a couple hundred a week to train guys at the wrestling school.

2. My trainees and local performers would be expected to advertise and sell tickets. I'd host a trainee rumble or trainee 8 man tag each show for workers who could sell 10 tickets each. This would result in me selling multiple tickets for the show and filling buildings before even throwing advertising up.

3. All shows would be ran from our wrestling school location to make the most of the lease/rental fee of the building. Occasionally I would run trainee shows as well in which it would be just friends and family of the talent coming out.

4. Every 3-4 months a "name" would be brought in, I'd recoup funds via training seminar, the draw and autograph signings. Each talent would sign items for me that I could ultimately put on eBay or sell at future events and of course the seminars would be great to make money off of.

5. My show would be a store. By that I mean when you walk in you'd have a stand for food and drink, a stand for promotion related merchandise and a general wrestling booth. Most independents have just specific show stand and that's it but why lose any profit? Odds are if you're selling a Pepsi at the concession stand for 2.50 the person is going to buy it instead of leaving the building and finding a store. Same with general wrestling merchandise, if you have old WWE stuff with a recognizable face on it people will buy it.

6. Actual talent wise I don't think I'd spend too much on the talent or bring in "indy darlings" to draw a crowd. Most workers would be trainees or local guys in the area who are desperate to work. Most would get paid about 20 bucks a night except for the occasional name who is brought in who would obviously get a few hundred

7. Production would be high for an independent. I'd probably buy a nice lighting rig, some smoke machines, nice ring, nice aprons, nice banners. This would be expensive early on but it's definitely a worthwhile investment. Nobody wants to go to a show with 2 out of shape independent guys brawling in a ring that looks like shit for a WWE Championship Belt with a sticker on it.

8. I'd try and offer some type of season pass. Maybe for 120 dollars a year you can have general admission ticket to every show, meet and greet with any "name" I bring in and special access to a YouTube site where you can watch any show you'd like for free. That would be like 200-250 dollars value for 120 bucks. It's a pretty sweet deal.

Basically my entire strategy is to stay small, small shows but maximum profits. Everything would be a subtle cash grab but in 2014 I don't think any independent can really make solid money month to month regardless of how low the cost is.

[Reflecto]

From things I've seen from other work I had done before with some minor promotions:

-I'd try to find a niche to build my show around. Before looking at it, I'd pay attention to what the current trends on the indy scene are, and see if there's anything being ignored at the time- THEN pick the niche from there.

Instead of getting rid of [or lessening promos] as was said before, I'd go the opposite direction. However, instead of one big 20 minute Raw-esque promo at the start of the show, I'd make it so that everyone, in every match on the card, cuts a short promo before their match, similar to a live version of the "split-screen Superstars-style promo." On a really small-scale indy, it'll be hard to get a buzz on your ability (or lack thereof) alone, so the only way to counteract that is give every wrestler on the card chances to develop their characters, develop feuds, and actually make people care about each performer on the card. From there, it also makes it easier to start making more in-depth feuds and better writing: It's easier to make great feuds between two guys who have shown their character and motivation than two guys who are effectively blank slates, and make more fans want to see it.

From there, the bigger points can go forward.

[HMARK Center]

Jan 21, 2014 11:30:20 GMT -5 Reflecto said:

From things I've seen from other work I had done before with some minor promotions:

-I'd try to find a niche to build my show around. Before looking at it, I'd pay attention to what the current trends on the indy scene are, and see if there's anything being ignored at the time- THEN pick the niche from there.

Instead of getting rid of [or lessening promos] as was said before, I'd go the opposite direction. However, instead of one big 20 minute Raw-esque promo at the start of the show, I'd make it so that everyone, in every match on the card, cuts a short promo before their match, similar to a live version of the "split-screen Superstars-style promo." On a really small-scale indy, it'll be hard to get a buzz on your ability (or lack thereof) alone, so the only way to counteract that is give every wrestler on the card chances to develop their characters, develop feuds, and actually make people care about each performer on the card. From there, it also makes it easier to start making more in-depth feuds and better writing: It's easier to make great feuds between two guys who have shown their character and motivation than two guys who are effectively blank slates, and make more fans want to see it.

From there, the bigger points can go forward.

Oh yeah, I agree. In my case my idea was mostly not letting guys do the whole "come out to the ring, grab a mic, babble for awhile and make matches on the spot" thing that mainstream wrestling does, because it's hideously overplayed, follows a painfully formulaic pattern, and mostly sucks.

But I'm 100% on board with having a bunch of near the entrance ramp/backstage in a formal setting/etc. 2-5 minute promos, ala vintage Crockett WCW or Mean Gene era WWF. Wrestling always sells itself best in these shorter segments; give the people matches that don't pit the two rivals together, but have each of them spend about 100 seconds each trying to verbally intimidate one another, and suddenly people will be willing to shell out a few bucks for a ticket next time the show's in town.

[Sephiroth]

Look for a local wrestling school to start a relationship, then hire some of its trainee's who want to get into wrestling. Seek out any old timers in my area who are willing to put in appearances of even get in the ring on occasion. Seek out a local TV channel for a time slot and start my own youtube channel. Run ads in some local papers and magazines, and if possible get some radio spots. Seek out the biggest venues within my price range. Set up tables at each show to hawk t-shirts and other merchandise. Then pester the heck out of WWE to use my promotion as a possible training/recruiting tool.

[Deleted]

With my current money, it isn't possible. I estimate I would need 250k to get set up.

Step 1: First thing I do is... not set up a wrestling company. I buy a McDonald's franchise, the average McDonald's pulls in over 1 million a year. So now I am rich and thus have the capital I will need to get this show on the road.

Step 2: I use my money to buy the local arena. There's no point in renting as its just an expense topped of with more expenses. I can now use my arena any time I want and can even rent it out to other promoters. By setting up my McDonald's as the concession's I save loads of money and will make more as I can sell Big Macs much cheaper than the standard hotdog's and fries most indy's would have. This will also be a drawing point for other promotes as I can negotiate a 60-40 (or whatever) split on McDonald's profits from the evening show.

Step 3: Hire a production crew. Cameras lighting and soundstage, that I own and can also use whenever I want. My Venue will now be great value to other promoters who want to put on non wrestling shows. Thus again making me money.

Step 4: Buy into a local wrestling school. At least 33% ownership, but 60% would be better. As everyone else has said, this is the best way to get wrestlers cheap as I will not make any real money for quite a long time. I would not force wrestlers to promote, but offer it as a side job for extra money. People need to eat and word will get around that my town is a great place to learn wrestling.

Step 5: My empahsis is on pure in ring wrestling. I want at least 3 1/2 star matches every time out with 4 to 5 star matches on my cards. My wrestlers will be announced with their wrestling school as well as their usual stats. I am emphasising that this is a sport, not WWE SE bs. Rankings will be displayed and matches will affect those rankings. Thus champions will face people who are the actual no 1 contender or lower if the champion is a heel for cheap heat.

Step 6: Keep it affordable. I noticed this from playing theme park back in the day. Every person in your park had a certain amount of money on them and it was your goal to get as much of it as possible. I feel that is the wrong idea. If I want to build up a fan base, my show needs to be something they can afford to come to each week. So if they show up with $100 on average. I want to have them leave with $50. So, since I own the arena and have McDonald's catering. I can sell shirts or whatever, cheap and get the $50.

Step 7: Use any profits to buy time to teh most popular radio show. This is great promo work and after 2 years, I can have them paying me to keep the ratings I give them.

Step 8: Buy a TV time shot to show: Best of MyCW or whatever I call it. Highlights only, you wanna see the show? Buy a ticket. Again after 2 years or so, they will be paying me.

Step 9: Buy into 2 more wrestling schools. Now I can emphasise the rivalries between the schools and can have a more diverse roster to work with.

Now I have a solid platform and a fan base, I can look to expand into other territories. Slowly over 5 - 10 years I will become large enough to go national and present myself as an alternative to WWE, never a competitor.

[Deleted]

I'd run once a month or so for charity and write off the expenses. No way in hell would I attempt to start a wrestling promotion no matter how small.

[Square]

I'm in an area that has a great region for promotions and schools so what I would do is go to small towns of 5-10000 using one or two named guys in the area with the rest being students needing ring time. I would promote like hell in the local area, flyer the surrounding towns and villages trying to get families mainly. I will get wrestling fans wanting to see good wrestling however its the casual fans and families that are key to creating and sustaining. I would try and run like PWG in terms of the look and if I can't find a good ring at a good price I won't even bother. I would aim to get 2-300 people in at £10-15, however I would know that on the door sales alone for the first few years will not suffice in bringing in the bacon so selling it online for cheap would be the way to go, £3-5 a show.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

A lower budget version of Rock 'n Wrestling with the workrate level of NJPW/current WWE, with maybe a dash of CHIKARA style craziness.

I'm not bothering with rankings or anything of the sort. I'm going pure soap opera, son.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Jan 21, 2014 10:14:56 GMT -5 @rainbowrandy said:

Make it successful, profitable and popular?

That sounds too difficult so I'm going to book Scott Hall instead.

Also I'm pretty sure that -£3000 won't even get me a ring to set up.

[NOwave]

I have some pretty healthy savings, so my first idea would be "never, ever run a wrestling promotion".

Lots of good ideas here, but this quote is my favorite.


Having said that, if i ever were crazy enough to try it, i'd agree with many of the thoughts presented here. Here's a few specific ideas I had:

1. Combine a Wrestling Academy with a regular promotion. Not only do you groom your own talent the way you want, but you breed some loyalty. And, most important, you can rent a single facility for the Academy and the shows. Much less time/money/effort spent on travel and moving equipment. And you generate revenue from it full time instead of just for shows.

2. Hire a combination booker/Headmaster of the Academy. Ideally, an older, local guy with a history in the business and some common sense. However, I still am ultimately in charge, including writing the checks.

3. Deleted - word of advice, please read the rules thread concerning politics. -HMark

3a. Paying the talent- the traditional formula was that about 35% of the gross went to the wrestlers. The Booker/promoter/owners were considered management and kept the profits. I would use that general formula(it worked in numerous local promotions for years) but change the way it's paid. Wrestlers would get a downside minimum and a bonus tied to paid attendance. Merchandise profits would be distributed in three tiers: Main Event-20%; Midcard-10%, Opener-5%. The booker, being the head of the Academy, would be paid primarily from there, with bonuses if attendance and revenues go over a certain pre-arranged point.

4. Expansion/traveling/running house shows-I'd base the promotion in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, and when our numbers were solid, (no less than 1 year in) consider running the following towns: Amarillo, Lubbock, Waco, Abilene, Odessa/Midland. Make an arrangement with a local promoter in each town to provide the venue and equipment. You provide the talent and the booking, having them fly on Southwest airlines to minimize travel costs.

5. Once your towns are all in the black, approach Fox Sports Southwest or another regional network about a weekly TV show. Propose revenue sharing-that is, you buy a % of the advertising for the first year of TV. Once you have a successful track record, renegotiate to have them pay you based on ratings.

That's the core of my 3 year plan. I think you have to plan on $1 million in operating capital or a credit line of that much for those 3 years.

[4TheGlory]

I think the most important thing that you need to do when running an independent promotion is not to grow too fast. It's very easy for a promoter to have a good show that draws a few hundred people that you start to think all of your shows are going to draw that much or even more.

You need to follow the guidelines of keeping things stupidly simple. Book venues as cheap as possible. Offset costs by co promoting events with other businesses and other wrestling promotions. So you can share a card and roster, as well as cutting your deposit for the building in half.

Also it is best to build up your roster organically with guys that may be lesser known but are young, hungry, and most of all motivated. guys looking to get some ring time an experience and won't feel disrespected for doing things to pay dues like setting up the ring. Get these guys while they're young and can build them selves an identity and keep them comfortable enough that they think of your promotion as their "home base".

Biggest thing in my book would be to stay as far away from the golden era legends as possible. They clearly don't pop a gate like they used to, are notorious for no showing, and command a lot more money then they are worth. If you are going to draw 75 people, do it with the guys that built the place, not some bitter old man that will trash you on the internet if you give them the wrong type of soda in their make shift locker room area.

[4TheGlory]

Oh and I almost forgot DON'T TRY TO BE THE NEW ECW. IT WONT WORK

[mor666gie]

copy Insane Championship Wrestling (ICW), started as a small Scottish promotion, now getting 800-1200 crowds.
getting coverage in Powerslam, documentary on the BBC.

oh, and their running the first non-Scottish show this year.



full show :

[Capt Lunatic]

[Glitch]

I would completely have no wrestling what so ever in the show(since that is what wrestling fans like). It would all be promos and angles. Who wins would be done by finger pokes of doom.
Gold, people.

[ICBM]

The money I have in the bank right now huh? Well I could bring in all the knockouts from tna and they'd call me generous. One deliberate nip slip and I will have an audience for life