Heartbreaker
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Post by Heartbreaker on Jan 31, 2014 6:03:21 GMT -5
Drag racing and property damage are horrible things but with the way people are acting you'd think that he would have raped 500 women, killed the elderly and sell cocaine to kids.
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 31, 2014 7:57:36 GMT -5
Gotta wonder if those 3 witness been allowed to testify, or the fact she had that deal with the civil lawyer, would Tyson had been convicted
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Post by RedSmile on Jan 31, 2014 8:23:34 GMT -5
Drag racing and property damage are horrible things but with the way people are acting you'd think that he would have raped 500 women, killed the elderly and sell cocaine to kids. No they don't. They think that he acts like an entitled little douchebag who is going to get someone, possibly an innocent bystander, killed. And they're right. Dude really has no defense, and his actions have nothing to do with Mike Tyson.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 11:24:50 GMT -5
True, but he did serve his time and was released on good behavior. Most people would fight it to the bitter end.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Jan 31, 2014 11:30:00 GMT -5
I think partly cuz he did serve his time, and partly because the case was so sketchy there are doubts are whether he did it or not. Also his apparent contrition for being what he was in the past now. Not saying any of those viewpoints are 'right'; but that's the sense I get. This is how I feel as well. I'm not convinced he actually raped that girl. I think it was more consensual. The more I have heard about the story, the more sketchy it sounds and the more I think he just put himself into a bad situation. I think he has shown contrition for that and for all the craziness he had in his younger days. I think he paid his due and has tried to better himself. Because of that, I think a large segment of the public has, in a sense, forgiven him and look at him more positively. That is just my opinion.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 31, 2014 11:38:11 GMT -5
Too much doubt regarding Washington's charges, already served his time, also he's making an effort to turn around his life by most accounts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 11:38:17 GMT -5
Doing prison time does not make a rapist not a bad person anymore. Screw him. I think people should be able to look at Mike Tyson however they want. If you don't want to forgive him or believe he's a changed person, then you're well within your rights to feel that way. I don't think people should be guilt-tripped if they don't feel that way though.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 31, 2014 11:51:49 GMT -5
The arts/media/entertainment industry can forgive virtually anything.
Tyson is a rapist. Still gets work.
Roman Polanski is a rapist. Hollywood would queue up to be in his movies.
Lane Garrison killed a person in a drunken crash. He was at Sundance.
John Galliano is anti-Semetic. The fashion industry welcomed him with open arms.
It's been said that the only thing that industry doesn't forgive is failure.
Rape or kill someone. There's room for redemption. Have a flop film, could be the end of your career.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 31, 2014 12:05:12 GMT -5
The arts/media/entertainment industry can forgive virtually anything. Tyson is a rapist. Still gets work. Roman Polanski is a rapist. Hollywood would queue up to be in his movies. Lane Garrison killed a person in a drunken crash. He was at Sundance. John Galliano is anti-Semetic. The fashion industry welcomed him with open arms. It's been said that the only thing that industry doesn't forgive is failure. Rape or kill someone. There's room for redemption. Have a flop film, could be the end of your career. Let's say that you are a celebrity--let's go with actor--who did something f***ed up under the circumstances Tyson did it: you admittedly committed lots of crimes before, you went to jail, you maintained your innocence, but you still did your time. Should Tyson's entire source of celebrity be denied now? The man did prison time, which is a lot goddamn more than loads of other celebrities have done. He does not go around glamorizing rape or indicating he doesn't give a shit that he did it. I'm not saying rape is OK. It's not. If he did that, that's f***ed up, and he should pay, and he did pay. But what more do you want from this one guy? If he never did his time or was a murderer, this situation would be different. There's just this overarching sense of righteousness to some points in this thread that boggles my mind considering prison--for as many issues as it has--is intended as a place of penance and rehabilitation.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 31, 2014 12:12:14 GMT -5
Yes
Doesn't matter to me. The crime should be with him forever. Personally I'm surprised he served such little time in prison for such a serious crime.
Depends on the crime. Some are so serious they warrant either life or incredibly long sentences, or total shunning if the perpertrator is released. I'm not a believer that serving a few years for rape then being freed means that the rapist gets a clean slate when they are released.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jan 31, 2014 12:20:57 GMT -5
They don't.
Things happen. People do their time. They ask for forgiveness, and they sometimes get it.
I don't see the point of continually ridiculing a guy who went to jail and has since then tried to become a different person. He's tried to move on with his life.
What do you want out of him? His death? I don't see why else people would beat something into the ground unless they literally want him dead for it.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 31, 2014 12:38:41 GMT -5
Yes Doesn't matter to me. The crime should be with him forever. Personally I'm surprised he served such little time in prison for such a serious crime. Depends on the crime. Some are so serious they warrant either life or incredibly long sentences, or total shunning if the perpertrator is released. I'm not a believer that serving a few years for rape then being freed means that the rapist gets a clean slate when they are released. Continuing the above, since you are an actor, should your source of income be denied, too? (Since it's part of your celebrity.) Do you find any value in the idea of prison as a whole? What would be an acceptable sentence to you? The crime IS with him forever. As evidenced by this thread, loads of people have not forgotten what he did, and considering that he has discusses this in interviews repeatedly, he hasn't forgotten either. He has no clean slate. You have got to be kidding me. This man carries the baggage of his life around with him constantly and will for the rest of his life--the rape, the rants, biting Holyfield's ear, the crimes he committed as a kid--just as he will the successes. I mean, (presumably) half the general public looks at him as an ear-eating rapist maniac compared to another half that sees him as a great boxer. How does that qualify as some clean reputation?
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 31, 2014 12:49:16 GMT -5
Yes. There are plenty of non-rapist actors who deserve roles more than he does.
To keep those who have committed the most serious crimes away from the rest of society.
For rape? Life.
Honestly, for some in the industry I don't think he's regarded as the ear biting rapist, but rather Mike Tyson - comedic cameo guy.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 31, 2014 12:49:20 GMT -5
Drag racing and property damage are horrible things but with the way people are acting you'd think that he would have raped 500 women, killed the elderly and sell cocaine to kids. I figure a lot of the animosity toward Justin Bieber probably has to do with his background. Tyson grew up black in a shitty part of New York from a broken family and used boxing as a way out. In the documentary "Tyson," he discusses a few of the more traumatic/absurd things that happened to him as a kid. He has that lisp--a very noticeable feature--and probably took a lot of shit for it over the years. He has said that he had a dead-end life until boxing came along. Meanwhile, Bieber is a manufactured pop star who was nurtured from a young age and given every advantage in life--he's handsome, women of all ages (especially girls) would commit seppuku just to be touched by him, he clearly had a lot of money and effort pumped into his career. He's still a kid, obviously, but he comes from a totally different background from Tyson--for one, his mother was the one who pushed forward so he could have his career--and has a totally different line of entertainment work (the touchy-feely, carefully manicured world of pop singing versus being involved in a brutal and violent sport). Still, Bieber is an unrepentant asshole who has miniscule amounts of self-awareness. He does all kinds of shenanigans in the media, comes off as entitled prick, and dresses like a dickhead, too. (Speaking of which, this "Ghetto" hat for some reason really riles me up:) Again, he is just a kid, and rape is definitely way, way worse than whatever Bieber is up to now, but he represents so many detestable things about pop culture and his culture--the shallowness of his character, the shallowness of his music, the seeming shallowness of the people around him--and he has yet to receive any just desserts.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 31, 2014 12:58:16 GMT -5
Yes. There are plenty of non-rapist actors who deserve roles more than he does. To keep those who have committed the most serious crimes away from the rest of society. For rape? Life. Honestly, for some in the industry I don't think he's regarded as the ear biting rapist, but rather Mike Tyson - comedic cameo guy. Part of the point of prison is imprisonment, yes, part of its point is slow-burn rehabilitation to turn your life around. Unless someone is a murderer or a repeat offender of massively destructive lives, I don't see why rehab isn't an option. You and I never going to see anywhere close to eye-to-eye on this if you believe that all rapists--no matter the circumstance--deserve life. It just boggles my mind that rape--while a heinous crime--is on par with taking someone's life. Someone who is raped deals with years of emotional/physical/mental trauma but at least they have a life, as opposed to a murder victim who has absolutely nothing. I just can't see that line of thinking at all.
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Post by Manute Bol on Jan 31, 2014 14:00:49 GMT -5
I feel that way about Michael Vick more-so than Tyson. Yeah he did his time, but that doesn't change him from being a f***ed up human being.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 31, 2014 14:53:14 GMT -5
Drag racing and property damage are horrible things but with the way people are acting you'd think that he would have raped 500 women, killed the elderly and sell cocaine to kids. I figure a lot of the animosity toward Justin Bieber probably has to do with his background. Tyson grew up black in a shitty part of New York from a broken family and used boxing as a way out. In the documentary "Tyson," he discusses a few of the more traumatic/absurd things that happened to him as a kid. He has that lisp--a very noticeable feature--and probably took a lot of shit for it over the years. He has said that he had a dead-end life until boxing came along. Meanwhile, Bieber is a manufactured pop star who was nurtured from a young age and given every advantage in life--he's handsome, women of all ages (especially girls) would commit seppuku just to be touched by him, he clearly had a lot of money and effort pumped into his career. He's still a kid, obviously, but he comes from a totally different background from Tyson--for one, his mother was the one who pushed forward so he could have his career--and has a totally different line of entertainment work (the touchy-feely, carefully manicured world of pop singing versus being involved in a brutal and violent sport). Still, Bieber is an unrepentant asshole who has miniscule amounts of self-awareness. He does all kinds of shenanigans in the media, comes off as entitled prick, and dresses like a dickhead, too. (Speaking of which, this "Ghetto" hat for some reason really riles me up:) Again, he is just a kid, and rape is definitely way, way worse than whatever Bieber is up to now, but he represents so many detestable things about pop culture and his culture--the shallowness of his character, the shallowness of his music, the seeming shallowness of the people around him--and he has yet to receive any just desserts. I'm confused- are you saying Bieber deserves the ridicule he's getting for both his asshole behavior AND the fact that he's had advantages? I know you're not brushing aside his antics and neither am I, but his background and him allegedly being manufactured and polished shouldn't be a factor here. That's equally as shallow.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 31, 2014 15:13:50 GMT -5
I figure a lot of the animosity toward Justin Bieber probably has to do with his background. Tyson grew up black in a shitty part of New York from a broken family and used boxing as a way out. In the documentary "Tyson," he discusses a few of the more traumatic/absurd things that happened to him as a kid. He has that lisp--a very noticeable feature--and probably took a lot of shit for it over the years. He has said that he had a dead-end life until boxing came along. Meanwhile, Bieber is a manufactured pop star who was nurtured from a young age and given every advantage in life--he's handsome, women of all ages (especially girls) would commit seppuku just to be touched by him, he clearly had a lot of money and effort pumped into his career. He's still a kid, obviously, but he comes from a totally different background from Tyson--for one, his mother was the one who pushed forward so he could have his career--and has a totally different line of entertainment work (the touchy-feely, carefully manicured world of pop singing versus being involved in a brutal and violent sport). Still, Bieber is an unrepentant asshole who has miniscule amounts of self-awareness. He does all kinds of shenanigans in the media, comes off as entitled prick, and dresses like a dickhead, too. (Speaking of which, this "Ghetto" hat for some reason really riles me up:) Again, he is just a kid, and rape is definitely way, way worse than whatever Bieber is up to now, but he represents so many detestable things about pop culture and his culture--the shallowness of his character, the shallowness of his music, the seeming shallowness of the people around him--and he has yet to receive any just desserts. I'm confused- are you saying Bieber deserves the ridicule he's getting for both his asshole behavior AND the fact that he's had advantages? I know you're not brushing aside his antics and neither am I, but his background and him allegedly being manufactured and polished shouldn't be a factor here. That's equally as shallow. Reading it again, it is kind of muddled. My point is that Tyson loses empathy because of the awful things he does, whereas Bieber also loses empathy for doing bad things while also having "less of an excuse" and coming off as someone who is abusing what advantages they do have. Society is more likely to give empathetic "passes" to certain people over others, and I was just trying to illustrate why Bieber is so despised when anything he has done criminally is small potatoes compared to Tyson. I agree that it is somewhat shallow to factor in personal dislike for the music he makes/image he has/line of work he is in/etc. when judging him as a person, but I don't think the general public is fair or even-handed in who they condemn and why they do it. Certain jerks will always be loved more or despised more based on the context people see their lives and careers in.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 21:28:14 GMT -5
For some strange reason, other people may feel differently about things than you. I have a lot of trouble believing you really don't get why people don't hang Tyson's crimes over his head anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 21:56:36 GMT -5
I think also the blow is softened because he was accused of raping a Black woman, who aren't held to any kind of esteem in America's eyes anyway.
Note: Please don't bring up Rihanna/Chris Brown as a counter-argument. It doesn't help the way you think it does.
EDIT: General "you," y'all. I'm not referring to anyone specifically.
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