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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 19:45:55 GMT -5
I honestly think Daniel Bryan has been much more over then Orton, Batista, CM Punk, and even John Cena ever was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 19:48:37 GMT -5
Ryback's peak in late 2012 was very high, and probably comparable to Daniel Bryan right now. Bryan's maintained high popularity for 2 years now, much of that as a heel, and is still at or near his peak popularity since last spring/summer. When he went from WHC to WWE title contender to tag team wrestler that occasionally jobbed out in 2 minutes to guys like Cody Rhodes or Big E, the fans stuck with him. That didn't really happen for Ryback.
I think the difference is that, outside of the physical ring-style and the fun chant, Ryback's overness came from wrecking people and winning. Bryan's, outside of the frantic/intense ring-style and the fun chant, comes from a connection to the person beyond the performer. They see his talent and how hard he works and want him to be at the top. That's not to say Ryback is talent-less, or doesn't work hard. But Bryan is a special talent that transcends wins/losses that people love to root for. It's combination of infectious energy and underdog story that is irresistable to pro-wrestling fans.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 26, 2014 19:52:38 GMT -5
Ryback was never over to the point where fans turned on the main event scene because he was taken out of it.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Feb 26, 2014 20:51:21 GMT -5
Very incorrect yes. You make it sound like John Cena selected Bryan to be his opponent and that helped Bryan get over. If you recall John Cena was doing his promo and the fans were chanting for Daniel Bryan and booed everyone else that Cena suggested (save for RVD). He was over way before the Summerslam build and his overness has nothing to do with the authority angle. If you want to pin it to one moment then 18 seconds and the huge backlash to it is a great start and the moment he took out the Shield was perhaps the first time when it was obvious that he was a megastar. Ryback was over and his squandered push would have gone on to be one of the WWE's biggest botches in years were it not for the fact they are doing a worse job now for Bryan. Bryan is much more over than Ryback was. More over than Punk was. Orton, Batista and even Cena has never had the fans behind him the same way Bryan has. You could easily make an argument that he Daniel Bryan is the most popular wrestler they've had since Rock/Austin.
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jon3
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Post by jon3 on Feb 26, 2014 21:33:05 GMT -5
No Bryan is NoT that much more over than Ryback.
Bryan though doesnt have the misfortune of being hated on by most smarks,in fact its the opposite.They love him.
So when Bryan is cheered most people support him and when in a smarky city,the support is HUGE and even more while Ryback on the other hand gets GOLDBERG chants.
Bryan is only more over bc the smarky fans ALSO like him rather than try to bring him down so in effect Bryan is more supported and liked bc he has no fans set on bringing him down or chanting crap at him.
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jon3
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Post by jon3 on Feb 26, 2014 21:37:34 GMT -5
I honestly think Daniel Bryan has been much more over then Orton, Batista, CM Punk, and even John Cena ever was. And you would be beyond delusional to actually believe Bryan is or ever was more over than Cena,Batista,Orton. Hes popular but hes not THAT popular at least not yet. CENA is on a whole different planet in overness from anybody barring the big 3----Hogan,Rock,Austin
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Post by angryfan on Feb 26, 2014 21:41:40 GMT -5
No Bryan is NoT that much more over than Ryback. Bryan though doesnt have the misfortune of being hated on by most smarks,in fact its the opposite.They love him. So when Bryan is cheered most people support him and when in a smarky city,the support is HUGE and even more while Ryback on the other hand gets GOLDBERG chants. Bryan is only more over bc the smarky fans ALSO like him rather than try to bring him down so in effect Bryan is more supported and liked bc he has no fans set on bringing him down or chanting crap at him. Intresting, so the mainstream chants, the coverage, the crowds loudly rejecting people that aren't him...those are smarks who are protecting him. Gotta say, for a minority of the audience that is so small as to be insignificant, they are loud as hell and apparently buy thousands of seats every Monday night and at every PPV. Truth is, Ryback was over, then they had him get screwed over in a title match that was total filler, turned him heel for no discernible reason, had him lose a bunch more matches, then kinda made him a tweener, then, well, here we are. All the while dude was and is rather green and was kinda potatoing people like 2001 RVD which probably doesn't help him get consistently pushed.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 26, 2014 21:47:10 GMT -5
And is it incorrect to conclude that WWE basically created the demand for Bryan -- starting with Cena picking him out as the worthy challenger and putting him over, followed by the Authority generating sympathy for him by keeping him down -- the same way it did for Ryback by cheating him of the title with Maddox's shenanigans and by booking him with a Goldberg-like push? Yes, it would be incorrect to conclude that. The demand for him predated Cena picking him by a fair margin. If it wasn't there, then they would have never started him in the angle, because he looks like the last guy you'd elevate to the main event.
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DIIV
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Post by DIIV on Feb 26, 2014 21:48:04 GMT -5
Was Austin this consistently over before they pulled the trigger on him? Like mid-97 to WM14 when he finally made it to the top of the mountain?
It seems like they're taking FOREVER with Bryan. He's been getting these insane reactions consistently for well over a year now, even back in August when Cena announced his Summerslam opponent, those reactions were deafening. It's frustrating! Agh!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 21:52:18 GMT -5
The other thing is, WWE made efforts to book both guys like crap for a little bit there. The fans stayed interested in Bryan and not in Ryback. This right here is the defining difference. The fans were along with Ryback when he was chanting "FEED ME MORE" and WWE responded by having him eat pins in big matches like he paid for a buffet at the local Golden Corral. The fans slowly drifted away until the heel turn against Cena finished him. Bryan went through the type of booking that could've stopped his momentum but he just keeps catching fire like Katniss Everdeen. Now that he's volunteering as tribute to face Triple H, we'll see if he can survive the greatest heat killer in the business.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Feb 26, 2014 21:59:23 GMT -5
I honestly think Daniel Bryan has been much more over then Orton, Batista, CM Punk, and even John Cena ever was. And you would be beyond delusional to actually believe Bryan is or ever was more over than Cena,Batista,Orton. Hes popular but hes not THAT popular at least not yet. CENA is on a whole different planet in overness from anybody barring the big 3----Hogan,Rock,Austin Delusional? I think it's perfectly acceptable to say at this point Bryan has been as over as basically anybody else the company has ever produced. Sure it's been in the short term. But it's not delusional to think he is bigger now than Orton or Batista ever were. In fact I'd say you'd be delusional to think he isn't. Maybe I've missed some matches here and there but I"ve been watching wrestling over 25 years, and the pops Bryan gets and the fact the fans in the audience (And its certainly more than just "smarks") shit all over the main event that doesn't include him makes him pretty special and at THE VERY LEAST makes him as popular as Batista and Orton ever were AT LEAST.
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jon3
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Post by jon3 on Feb 26, 2014 22:04:24 GMT -5
No Bryan is NoT that much more over than Ryback. Bryan though doesnt have the misfortune of being hated on by most smarks,in fact its the opposite.They love him. So when Bryan is cheered most people support him and when in a smarky city,the support is HUGE and even more while Ryback on the other hand gets GOLDBERG chants. Bryan is only more over bc the smarky fans ALSO like him rather than try to bring him down so in effect Bryan is more supported and liked bc he has no fans set on bringing him down or chanting crap at him. Intresting, so the mainstream chants, the coverage, the crowds loudly rejecting people that aren't him...those are smarks who are protecting him. Gotta say, for a minority of the audience that is so small as to be insignificant, they are loud as hell and apparently buy thousands of seats every Monday night and at every PPV. Truth is, Ryback was over, then they had him get screwed over in a title match that was total filler, turned him heel for no discernible reason, had him lose a bunch more matches, then kinda made him a tweener, then, well, here we are. All the while dude was and is rather green and was kinda potatoing people like 2001 RVD which probably doesn't help him get consistently pushed. Smarks are a Minority yes but a vocal majority and in certain cities and places,Smarks are the MAJORITY crowd. Ex:Chicago,Canada,NY,London Ryback did get screwed hard but you cant believe getting Loud GOLDBERG chants and getting absolutely crapped on by a certain contigent of fans didnt play a part. Smarks arent protecting Daniel Bryan,theyre supporting him while Ryback they crapped on. Smarks are the only type that Hijack shows and now while Ryback got cheered he still got Goldberg chants and crapped on by certain fans.Ryback fans didnt hijack shows and crap on everything that wasnt him. So while Ryback was supported he had "those" fans against him crapping on him. While Bryan on the other hand has support he doesnt have certain types of fans intent on crapping on him at every turn,instead he has their overwhelming support.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Feb 26, 2014 22:06:33 GMT -5
No Bryan is NoT that much more over than Ryback. Bryan though doesnt have the misfortune of being hated on by most smarks,in fact its the opposite.They love him. So when Bryan is cheered most people support him and when in a smarky city,the support is HUGE and even more while Ryback on the other hand gets GOLDBERG chants. Bryan is only more over bc the smarky fans ALSO like him rather than try to bring him down so in effect Bryan is more supported and liked bc he has no fans set on bringing him down or chanting crap at him. What idiotic logic. If Bryan gets cheered by BOTH marks and smarks, that actually makes him more popular than a guy cheered by marks, but booed (by your own admission) by smarks. Both fan demographics love Bryan. And neither side tries to tear him down. So if you truly believe that stance your debate is a moot point. You've proven Bryan more popular by your own criteria.
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Post by angryfan on Feb 26, 2014 22:14:26 GMT -5
Intresting, so the mainstream chants, the coverage, the crowds loudly rejecting people that aren't him...those are smarks who are protecting him. Gotta say, for a minority of the audience that is so small as to be insignificant, they are loud as hell and apparently buy thousands of seats every Monday night and at every PPV. Truth is, Ryback was over, then they had him get screwed over in a title match that was total filler, turned him heel for no discernible reason, had him lose a bunch more matches, then kinda made him a tweener, then, well, here we are. All the while dude was and is rather green and was kinda potatoing people like 2001 RVD which probably doesn't help him get consistently pushed. Smarks are a Minority yes but a vocal majority and in certain cities and places,Smarks are the MAJORITY crowd. Ex:Chicago,Canada,NY,London Ryback did get screwed hard but you cant believe getting Loud GOLDBERG chants and getting absolutely crapped on by a certain contigent of fans didnt play a part. Smarks arent protecting Daniel Bryan,theyre supporting him while Ryback they crapped on. Smarks are the only type that Hijack shows and now while Ryback got cheered he still got Goldberg chants and crapped on by certain fans.Ryback fans didnt hijack shows and crap on everything that wasnt him. So while Ryback was supported he had "those" fans against him crapping on him. While Bryan on the other hand has support he doesnt have certain types of fans intent on crapping on him at every turn,instead he has their overwhelming support. I think if you have to include entire countries, it becomes hard to say "in some places this group is the majority". If "those" fans are only a majority in Canada or cities like NYC (WWE's home base basically) or Chicago, or Boston, or Miami, or Los Angeles, or Pittsburgh, or basically any metropolitan area where the WWE runs 75 percent or more of their shows,then suddenly that's the audience that damn well better be listened to because that's the majority of their live, paying customers. If you have a house of 17K, and 12 to 15K are cheering for something, that's a sign. If you go to the next city, and the same percentage is reacting exactly the same way, it is now a pattern. City number three and it becomes a trend. What you don't do is say, "Huh, they like this...let's change up some stuff about the person they're chanting for, that should really make them happy". They did it to Ryback, then yo-yo booked him to shit. They did that to Cena in 2005/2006 and the backlash was the stuff of legend that took him, the top guy in the industry, years to get a handle on. They've tried it with Bryan and, somewhat surprisingly given their track record, the fans have stuck with him. To me, THAT proves overness, not ratings or how many ugly damn goat shirts they move. Do they get big crowds for RAW, and do those crowds all seem to want the same thing? If the answer is yes, what about three or four cities in a row? Five? Ten? At some point, it becomes a matter of, "The majority of our audience wants X" not, "Those losers on the internet are all buying tickets to our shows and cheering for somebody, how do we stop this". I suppose they could always have Bryan get the same treatment Ryback got, get a title shot, then get screwed over thanks to interference, then get de-pushed down the card...oh, wait that happened already.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 22:46:16 GMT -5
Bryan is way more over. Ryback was over as all hell but as people have said the crowd didn't randomly chant for him in the middle of the show during segments that had nothing to do with him like they do for Bryan. I don't really think it's fair to compare the length of time they were over though, Ryback was turned heel and had most of the things that made him over as a face stripped from him. It wasn't until a little while later that he really found his niche as a heel.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Feb 27, 2014 0:58:44 GMT -5
To answer the question..yea.
They still f***ed up majorly with Ryback though. And Bryan's being screwed is still the focus even with Batista.
As soon as Rock showed up, Ryback was done. WWE didn't care enough to protect him like they are with Bryan.
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Post by superchamp on Feb 27, 2014 5:30:16 GMT -5
Of course he's more over than Ryback was, it's unfeasible to think otherwise. I say this as a huge advocate of The Big Guy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 5:38:35 GMT -5
I'm sure there has been/will be some rewriting of history now that it's in the rear view mirror and he's no longer a hot commodity, but Ryback was, without question, way over less than 18 months ago. "Feed Me More" chants were prevalent, close to as prevalent as "Yes!" chants are now, maybe even as prevalent. The fans at live events were gaga over him. Large segments of the "WWE Universe," including large segments of the IWC, wanted the promotion to "listen to the fans" and "give the people what they want." I find this interesting in several ways. Ryback has, of course, cooled off, and everyone who wanted that to happen is, presumably, glad now that it did not. WWE created and fueled the Ryback interest and then put out its own fire. When people now want the same things for Bryan, I can see where Triple H/VKM/WWE might figure that this, too, will pass. My questions are these: Does anyone here really believe Ryback wasn't over? Should WWE believe that the love for Bryan now is more genuine? If so, why? And is it incorrect to conclude that WWE basically created the demand for Bryan -- starting with Cena picking him out as the worthy challenger and putting him over, followed by the Authority generating sympathy for him by keeping him down -- the same way it did for Ryback by cheating him of the title with Maddox's shenanigans and by booking him with a Goldberg-like push?
Again, I expect some short-term memory lapses and denial that Ryback was "really" over, but I'm not 100 percent sure there is a real difference between Ryback then and Bryan now. Yes, I'd say it's incorrect to conclude that, as Bryan was extremely over practically right from the point he showed up on NXT, got eliminated dubiously, beat up Michael Cole repeatedly and then - crucially perhaps - didn't end up as part of the (also extremely over, mind) Nexus after "Tiegate". Weirdly, I only remembered Ryback was in Nexus just as I was about to hit 'post'... I'm going to disagree with that. Bryan was kinda over on NXT and in his Miz feud, but outside of that he pretty much exclusively got Conway pops when not in smark towns until he turned heel. Not to diminish him any, just saying he was far from a hit overnight.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Feb 27, 2014 5:49:06 GMT -5
I was at RAW Old School in 2010, when he faced Swagger in PA, and saying this as a massive Bryan Mark. You couldn't get a damn person to chant that guy's name during his US Title run. Not a damn one.
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Post by The Lex Espresso on Feb 27, 2014 6:01:58 GMT -5
Yes, I'd say it's incorrect to conclude that, as Bryan was extremely over practically right from the point he showed up on NXT, got eliminated dubiously, beat up Michael Cole repeatedly and then - crucially perhaps - didn't end up as part of the (also extremely over, mind) Nexus after "Tiegate". Weirdly, I only remembered Ryback was in Nexus just as I was about to hit 'post'... I'm going to disagree with that. Bryan was kinda over on NXT and in his Miz feud, but outside of that he pretty much exclusively got Conway pops when not in smark towns until he turned heel. Not to diminish him any, just saying he was far from a hit overnight. I'd still argue he was the most over member of NXT 1 with the possible exception of Barrett post-NXT. He was certainly more over than Skip Sheffield, and as has been alluded to, was a smark darling right from the off.
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