Snowman
Dennis Stamp
The "Called His Mama at WrestleMania" Guy
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Posts: 3,907
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Post by Snowman on Mar 22, 2014 7:17:24 GMT -5
Fun fact: this was the first ever WWF/WWE event I ever went to. Won tickets in a flag football raffle. Anyway, I actually remember this match pretty well. At this point, most casuals (myself included at the time) really had little to no idea on who Angle really was. Truth be told, before Angle did his mid-match promo there were quite a few people chanting "Let's go Red Wings" near my area... Ah so they actually were chanting that, I always wondered. I thought they were chanting "GRECO WRESTLING" haha
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,660
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Post by thecrusherwi on Mar 22, 2014 8:33:52 GMT -5
Question, why they didn't tried to portray him as an american hero from the beggining? The WWF knew that Kurt Angle could be an AMAZING heel or they thought that people will not cheer a guy which gimmick was "olympic wrestler" I just think this is a prime example of how in tune with their audience the WWF was at the time. The promos they showed of him before his debut were basically just showing who he was, how he was a great Olympian and threw in subtle jabs like "the best REAL athlete" and have him talk about how impressive it is to win a medal. The exact same promos in 1985 would have made him a babyface. In 1999, the fans resented it and we're annoyed by it. They knew this would happen and were able to turn him into an oblivious heel who is shocked every night that people don't like him. It was perfect. Angle never fully gave up on the fans liking him until he became a paranoid WWF Champion almost a year later.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Mar 22, 2014 8:46:52 GMT -5
I was kind of dreading the "All American hero" character from the vignettes, thinking he was going to be a face. I dont know if I was too young to pick up that he was meant to be a heel or what but I remember marking out when he debuted as a heel and was so happy they didnt go with what I thought, he was just perfect as the smug heel. I think I was just getting into my smarkdom then because I remember also loving the fans cheering a heel Y2J over Chyna at I think this same event.
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Mar 22, 2014 9:15:50 GMT -5
Stasiak - amazing how big even chump midcarders were back in the day.
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Post by héad.casé on Mar 22, 2014 9:47:03 GMT -5
I remember reading Kurt's book where he was talking about this match, and he said Vince anticipated the boring chants and stuff like that, so told him if it happened, to do the mid-match promo, which worked as it got fans into the match.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Mar 22, 2014 9:47:37 GMT -5
The commentary is great, especially the part when King says Angle isn't used to "sports entertainment style wrestling."
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Post by blackmegaman on Mar 22, 2014 10:27:37 GMT -5
Question, why they didn't tried to portray him as an american hero from the beggining? The WWF knew that Kurt Angle could be an AMAZING heel or they thought that people will not cheer a guy which gimmick was "olympic wrestler" I just think this is a prime example of how in tune with their audience the WWF was at the time. The promos they showed of him before his debut were basically just showing who he was, how he was a great Olympian and threw in subtle jabs like "the best REAL athlete" and have him talk about how impressive it is to win a medal. The exact same promos in 1985 would have made him a babyface. In 1999, the fans resented it and we're annoyed by it. They knew this would happen and were able to turn him into an oblivious heel who is shocked every night that people don't like him. It was perfect. Angle never fully gave up on the fans liking him until he became a paranoid WWF Champion almost a year later. Yea between this and the Owen Hart "BlueBlazer" gimmick earlier that year it seemed they were really into putting over the then current style of wrestling and characters by saying how "lame" and "outdated" the stuff from the previous boom period (the Hogan era) was.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 22, 2014 10:29:22 GMT -5
When I was a kid (8, nearly 9 when Angle debuted) I would get excited for any new debuts and that included Angle. My mom worked with this high schooler around that time that would buy and record all the WWF PPVs and let me borrow them the day after and Angle's debut really made an impression. He was so special right out of the gate, even an eight year old mark could see it, and there was basically no way this guy wasn't going to be a star. My friends thought I was crazy because I was convinced Angle was the next top guy in the company. He's the first heel I remember thinking was a face because his hype videos were basically pointing out he's an awesome wrestler and didn't seem that negative. You can imagine my confusion when they tried convincing me he was a heel. They did that a lot with Angle, making him a heel when it makes no goddamn sense to.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 22, 2014 10:40:44 GMT -5
It interesting to see this and known how over he got after it. Angle was so awesome at what he did. How he is in TNA becoming a spot monkey and it's sad because I loved Angle work.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,660
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Post by thecrusherwi on Mar 22, 2014 10:49:32 GMT -5
I just think this is a prime example of how in tune with their audience the WWF was at the time. The promos they showed of him before his debut were basically just showing who he was, how he was a great Olympian and threw in subtle jabs like "the best REAL athlete" and have him talk about how impressive it is to win a medal. The exact same promos in 1985 would have made him a babyface. In 1999, the fans resented it and we're annoyed by it. They knew this would happen and were able to turn him into an oblivious heel who is shocked every night that people don't like him. It was perfect. Angle never fully gave up on the fans liking him until he became a paranoid WWF Champion almost a year later. Yea between this and the Owen Hart "BlueBlazer" gimmick earlier that year it seemed they were really into putting over the then current style of wrestling and characters by saying how "lame" and "outdated" the stuff from the previous boom period (the Hogan era) was. Definitely. Heck Brisco and Patterson were using Hogan's theme. In their defense though, the main reason they were trying to make their old product look outdated and silly is because almost all of the talent synonymous with that period were in WCW going head to head with them
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,856
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 22, 2014 10:58:40 GMT -5
His music sounds so weird without the crowd chanting "you suck"
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Post by Stu on Mar 22, 2014 13:01:38 GMT -5
I always liked this moment when he returned in 2003.
I also liked when he joined ECW and the fans supported him at One Night Stand. Granted, he was up against Orton, but I liked the "F*** him up, Angle, F*** him up" and "Angle's gonna kill you" chants.
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A damn road sign
Samurai Cop
"What the hell am I? A school crossing?"
Posts: 2,424
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Post by A damn road sign on Mar 22, 2014 13:22:23 GMT -5
Man, as green as Kurt would've been at the time, I'd love to have seen his match(es?) with Owen.
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Post by molson5 on Mar 22, 2014 13:24:35 GMT -5
Even though he had the world-class athletic background, the thing that amazed me about Angle is that how polished he was right off the bat when it came to all the non-wrestling stuff - the entrance, the mannerism, the promos, the smarminess. Just unbelievable. He had that character down immediately, with no prior pro wrestling experience.
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ibdude
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,706
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Post by ibdude on Mar 22, 2014 15:21:32 GMT -5
This was the first full WWF PPV I ever saw. (My grandparents had a cable box that somehow got free PPV and I would watch the WCW PPVs and bits and pieces of the WWF shows.) I was able to watch the show all the way up to a little after Stone Cold got hit by the car until I had to go home because it was a school night. I was 10 at the time and my mother wasn't going for that. I ended up being really mad when I found out that Big Show won the next day at school. Thanks mom.
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welshjobber
Trap-Jaw
How do you like me now?
Posts: 474
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Post by welshjobber on Mar 22, 2014 17:09:25 GMT -5
I will always remember No Way out 2000 for scenes of Kurt Angle celebrating winning the IC title all night, pure gold.
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Post by angryfan on Mar 22, 2014 17:36:29 GMT -5
Watching the match, and a few things come to mind. First, JR's call of a dropkick as a "nice reverse elbow" made me laugh. Their awkward exchange about Muahmmad Ali was weird to say the least. Also, ironic that an amature wrestling commercial just came on TV while I had the match going.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 22, 2014 19:51:52 GMT -5
Question, why they didn't tried to portray him as an american hero from the beggining? The WWF knew that Kurt Angle could be an AMAZING heel or they thought that people will not cheer a guy which gimmick was "olympic wrestler" More than any other time, the Attitude Era had jackasses getting cheered. Angle was a whitebread, all-American hero, the kinda guy who'd be a babyface in the 80s, or even the 70s - not in the 90s, when Austin (who was pretty much an asshole to everyone he met) was the top guy.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Mar 22, 2014 22:53:45 GMT -5
Yeah... the All-American Hero character wouldn't be cheered again until after 9/11, and even that had a shelf life of a few years. Remember when they tried to make John Cena a marine? It didn't really set the world on fire.
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