riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Apr 19, 2014 21:04:31 GMT -5
Didn't they already try to do this storyline with Kane? It never ends well and always translates with Cena remaining the same.
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Post by thegame415 on Apr 19, 2014 21:08:13 GMT -5
No. I think Bray going over would've been huge, but the loss didnt hurt him. Had bray won, where does the storyline go? Cena just has to come back an get his revenge. It's not like Bray jobbed. He lost, but the match came off as if it could've gone either way.
I think the right booking choice for Extreme Rules would be for Bray to pin Cena in the cage with no interference. Have a rematch on Raw where Bray goes over. This gives Bray two wins, while Cena still has one at WM and is not a chump.
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Post by mrtuesday on Apr 19, 2014 21:32:23 GMT -5
Yeah. John Cena doesn't do that.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
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Post by RIHT on Apr 19, 2014 21:40:42 GMT -5
Think of it like this: if Wyatt won at WM, they might have had him lost against Cena at Extreme Rules then ended the feud there.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 20, 2014 8:49:47 GMT -5
Yes, because the hero has already prevailed comprehensively over the entire villain faction.
Now I'm really gripped with the dramatic tension.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 22:32:20 GMT -5
Here's something I'm wondering.
What was even the point of the Mania match? Not that I'm complaining about Cena finally having a meaningless throwaway Mania match instead of always holding up either the title scene or the main event (usually both), but it seems like there had to be some big reason to have the match rather than having Cena do something important, even though nothing actually came of it and Cena could have easily been put up against Triple H or one of the people in the battle royal instead in a match that would have mattered more and had more star power to it. As it stands, nothing that happened at Mania with him couldn't have waited for basically any other PPV besides Bray's entrance.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Apr 20, 2014 22:37:06 GMT -5
Here's something I'm wondering. What was even the point of the Mania match? Not that I'm complaining about Cena finally having a meaningless throwaway Mania match instead of always holding up either the title scene or the main event (usually both), but it seems like there had to be some big reason to have the match rather than having Cena do something important, even though nothing actually came of it and Cena could have easily been put up against Triple H or one of the people in the battle royal instead in a match that would have mattered more and had more star power to it. As it stands, nothing that happened at Mania with him couldn't have waited for basically any other PPV besides Bray's entrance. It was probably meant to be a test for Bray to see if he can handle the big stage and have a very good wrestling match with Cena. Bray has only really gotten 4 single matches to prove his merits. Vs Kane at Summerslam,Vs Bryan at the Rumble and Vs Reigns on Raw. The Kane and Roman matches were bad and the Bryan match was very good. So the Cena match provided Bray another chance to show the higher ups that he can hold his own in a ring and not have to be carried in any future matches.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 20, 2014 23:06:42 GMT -5
Which...well, Bryan and Cena are the kings of carrying. I can't say that a good match with Cena is evidence that a guy doesn't need to be carried, as much as Bray made his star in that match against Cena.
Still, the fact that Bray came out of that match more over than ever can only mean good things for him going forward.
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Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on Apr 20, 2014 23:55:04 GMT -5
I thought it was odd. Cena winning didn't really fit the theme of WrestleMania, I mean you had Bryan beating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista, The Shield dominating Kane and DX, Cesaro winning the battle royale by tossing Big Show, Brock Lensar ending the Undertakers streak(I guess Brock isn't new but it was still a passing of the torch moment), it should have been the night of established talent losing to the new generation. Cena didn't need to win that match, hell if he had to win it should have been Bray passing out from to an STF(like others suggested) or have Cena take out Harper and Rowan then Bray and Cena just brawl all over the arena for a bit till Harper and Rowan catch up to them and they just beat the hell out of Cena. Then Cena could demand a cage match to keep the Wyatt family out and there would be a better reason for Cena to rage against the Wyatt family and push him closer to his breaking point, instead of LOLAttitudeAdjustment-->pin-->kk later-->LOLBEARDS-->Let's have a cage match.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 21, 2014 0:14:26 GMT -5
I thought it was odd. Cena winning didn't really fit the theme of WrestleMania, I mean you had Bryan beating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista, The Shield dominating Kane and DX, Cesaro winning the battle royale by tossing Big Show, Brock Lensar ending the Undertakers streak(I guess Brock isn't new but it was still a passing of the torch moment), it should have been the night of established talent losing to the new generation. Cena didn't need to win that match, hell if he had to win it should have been Bray passing out from to an STF(like others suggested) or have Cena take out Harper and Rowan then Bray and Cena just brawl all over the arena for a bit till Harper and Rowan catch up to them and they just beat the hell out of Cena. Then Cena could demand a cage match to keep the Wyatt family out and there would be a better reason for Cena to rage against the Wyatt family and push him closer to his breaking point, instead of LOLAttitudeAdjustment-->pin-->kk later-->LOLBEARDS-->Let's have a cage match. Cena's win seemed to either be to 1. have a single match that didn't fit the theme (which is a valuable end), or 2. to soften the Undertaker loss with a card that otherwise only had face victories. Or both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 0:20:54 GMT -5
I thought it was odd. Cena winning didn't really fit the theme of WrestleMania, I mean you had Bryan beating HHH, Randy Orton and Batista, The Shield dominating Kane and DX, Cesaro winning the battle royale by tossing Big Show, Brock Lensar ending the Undertakers streak(I guess Brock isn't new but it was still a passing of the torch moment), it should have been the night of established talent losing to the new generation. Cena didn't need to win that match, hell if he had to win it should have been Bray passing out from to an STF(like others suggested) or have Cena take out Harper and Rowan then Bray and Cena just brawl all over the arena for a bit till Harper and Rowan catch up to them and they just beat the hell out of Cena. Then Cena could demand a cage match to keep the Wyatt family out and there would be a better reason for Cena to rage against the Wyatt family and push him closer to his breaking point, instead of LOLAttitudeAdjustment-->pin-->kk later-->LOLBEARDS-->Let's have a cage match. Cena's win seemed to either be to 1. have a single match that didn't fit the theme (which is a valuable end), or 2. to soften the Undertaker loss with a card that otherwise only had face victories. Or both. Granted, the latter point doesn't actually accomplish anything since it seems like absolutely nobody cheers for Cena anymore regardless of where they're at.
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Post by Chestnutrice on Apr 21, 2014 0:31:43 GMT -5
Cena's win seemed to either be to 1. have a single match that didn't fit the theme (which is a valuable end), or 2. to soften the Undertaker loss with a card that otherwise only had face victories. Or both. Granted, the latter point doesn't actually accomplish anything since it seems like absolutely nobody cheers for Cena anymore regardless of where they're at. Yeah, Cena's in a weird position, I don't know if it's the feud or something but this is one of those times, where the other guy is getting cheered over him. Weird to not hear "Let's Go Cena" as often as I used to.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 21, 2014 0:36:04 GMT -5
Cena's win seemed to either be to 1. have a single match that didn't fit the theme (which is a valuable end), or 2. to soften the Undertaker loss with a card that otherwise only had face victories. Or both. Granted, the latter point doesn't actually accomplish anything since it seems like absolutely nobody cheers for Cena anymore regardless of where they're at. True, especially given my own argument that Cena is one of WWE's most successful heels as he is now. However, there is no way that anyone predicted Bray would get as much of a positive reception as he got at Mania and continues to get since.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 0:38:06 GMT -5
Granted, the latter point doesn't actually accomplish anything since it seems like absolutely nobody cheers for Cena anymore regardless of where they're at. True, especially given my own argument that Cena is one of WWE's most successful heels as he is now. However, there is no way that anyone predicted Bray would get as much of a positive reception as he got at Mania and continues to get since. I dunno, after him putting the mask on Cena got a, "This is awesome!" chant, I wasn't particularly surprised. Though I don't think anyone could have expected the singing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 10:59:19 GMT -5
Granted, the latter point doesn't actually accomplish anything since it seems like absolutely nobody cheers for Cena anymore regardless of where they're at. True, especially given my own argument that Cena is one of WWE's most successful heels as he is now. However, there is no way that anyone predicted Bray would get as much of a positive reception as he got at Mania and continues to get since. Really, really takes away from being a "successful heel" when you constantly fight other heels, resulting in those heels getting massive cheers. It's stupid.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 21, 2014 12:14:17 GMT -5
True, especially given my own argument that Cena is one of WWE's most successful heels as he is now. However, there is no way that anyone predicted Bray would get as much of a positive reception as he got at Mania and continues to get since. Really, really takes away from being a "successful heel" when you constantly fight other heels, resulting in those heels getting massive cheers. It's stupid. The definition of "heel" I am using is "someone the audience pays to see lose." Pitting Cena against heels gets a major portion of the audience to pay to see him lose. Hence, a solid formula.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Apr 21, 2014 12:17:51 GMT -5
I don't think him losing to Cena was a mistake, but more HOW they did it. All this built around Bray trying to bring out the monster in Cena, but at WM, the GRANDEST STAGE OF THEM ALL, they basically had a filler match in their feud. Cena could have went over the line while the ref was distracted and done something TOO aggressive and un-Cena-y that got him the win, even clean, but still in a way that showed Bray really got to him. So it'll be a Cena win, but one Bray can go on to say that HE helped Cena accomplish by bringing out the monster in him. Yeah. Had Cena won via the Stone Cold Memorial Heel Finisher of "Beat the eff out of them with a chair" then I think that would've advanced the story very well.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Apr 21, 2014 12:42:40 GMT -5
In hindsight? I thought it was the wrong thing when it happened.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 21, 2014 12:45:45 GMT -5
Didn't they already try to do this storyline with Kane? It never ends well and always translates with Cena remaining the same. Kane - "Cena.....embrace the hate" Cena - "No" The End.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 14:18:54 GMT -5
Really, really takes away from being a "successful heel" when you constantly fight other heels, resulting in those heels getting massive cheers. It's stupid. The definition of "heel" I am using is "someone the audience pays to see lose." Pitting Cena against heels gets a major portion of the audience to pay to see him lose. Hence, a solid formula. I can't argue that people will pay to see him lose, but it screws with every heel he wrestles and every story they try to tell with his character. Maybe that's part of the reason why every heel that's any good eventually gets tons of cheers and turns face. They're intentionally booked against "babyfaces" that the crowd hates. If he actually turned heel, people would STILL want him to lose, and he'd be in programs with babyfaces and people would actually get desired reactions.
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