ibdude
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,706
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Post by ibdude on May 26, 2014 11:33:15 GMT -5
A couple of stories from my past:
1. I was in the 4th grade riding the school bus. Almost everyday this girl 2 grades under me would sit behind me and keep slapping me in the back of the head for no reason. She would also put boogers on the back of my shirt because she was a nasty, f***ed up piece of shit. One day I couldn't take anymore of her shit and as she was climbing over seats to get back to hers after slapping me again (these buses were like the Wild West) I bent her ankle back to hurt her and she starts crying. Everybody sees her crying, and I end up getting written up for it even though she started it and wouldn't stop. A dude in the 5th grade even called me a woman beater over it.
2. Fast forward to the 11th grade, this girl two grades under me keeps slapping me on my head everyday and laughs. She also looks at me with an expression on her face as to almost sarcastically dare me to do something. I never hit her back because I know I would've gotten in trouble because I'm a dude and she's a girl. So I just let her do it to me. Looking back I should've slapped the shit out of her or something and taken my punishment. I was just too worried about my punishment and how it would look to everybody else in the class.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 26, 2014 11:35:44 GMT -5
Yeah, but there are a lot of cases where the woman just isn't believed. I feel the "woman manipulating authorities" trope kinda needs to die off, because it really keeps people from reporting stuff, like rape, violence, etc. I'm sure it happens, everyone is human and capable of this stuff, but I feel that it's usually done to dismiss claims. In regards to your case, we go back to the Drew McIntyre/Taryn Terrell dilemma. How big are you? How big is she? I know that shouldn't matter, but it does. If she's really small, and you're a lot bigger then her, then no, you don't fight back, because it's simply not fair. You just get out of the situation asap and then report it. But that's also another side to the Male-to-female violence: Again, the psychological aspect when a woman hits a man. Part of "Man hits woman, public condemns- woman hits man, people laugh" is that in a female-on-male situation, the man can't win. If the woman attacks him, people around will laugh at it instead of help him. If he defends himself, he'll be seen as a monster for hitting a woman, but if he DOESN'T defend himself, he'll be seen as less of a man (and the Drew McIntyre/Taryn Terrell dilemma is a good example of that too- McIntyre was clearly not willing to hit Terrell over this message because he knew he was bigger and a trained athlete- but by not hitting her, he apparently killed his push because everyone thought he was a wimp for letting her beat him up.) But then the people who killed off his push are idiots in that regards, and sadly, WWE is pretty sexist in general, so doing the right thing is kind of moot when it comes to that. Drew in that situation would have been f***ed no matter what in that company, but that's simply due to the company being sexist more then anything. One reason I do like using that example is if Drew did attack her, even with her hitting first, he would be completely in the wrong because he is a large, professional athlete and he would have done some major damage. I like using it, because details are still sketchy, but it shows two people who this board knows of, and it illustrates the size difference very well, to help further my point. To go back to the quote, "They started it, they're responsible for what happens", and if you put Drew and Taryn in that situation, then you basically have a 6'5 pro athlete doing some major damage to his 5'4 wife. So yeah, even if WWE doesn't think so or de-pushed him because of that, then they're simply in the wrong even though they have the power. WWE can be very petty, as we've seen over the years. And I think that's something in society that needs to change, that people would just laugh at it. The whole thing of being "less of a man" is complete bullshit, and it's an attitude in society that needs to be dropped completely.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 26, 2014 11:36:30 GMT -5
It's possible for a guy to defend himself without 'pulverizing' his attacker, dude. True, but I'm also bringing up issues of size difference, how someone who is bigger can hit harder. This is why in boxing and MMA, they don't normally have fights outside of weight classes. So depending on the situation, pulverizing can certainly be appropriate term to use. Especially if I look at the post, a good part was "They're responsible for what happens". So would they in turn be responsible for a pulverizing? And not only that, but if you have a girlfriend attacking you, defending yourself can also be holding her, making sure she's not hitting you, and then getting out of the situation. It depends on how responsible the guy is. And plus, high emotion could lead to some pulverizing, depending on the situation. So you'd be cool with wrenching her arm from her socket? Maybe strangling her? Just so long as the guy doesn't take a swat at her? Of course you aren't. Just like how that other guy wasn't advocating caving her head in or 'putting the boots to her'. Any act you take in a situation like this, if taken to the extreme, can seriously injure someone. Doesn't mean that taking such an act automatically means that you're going to be out for blood.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 26, 2014 11:38:10 GMT -5
True, but I'm also bringing up issues of size difference, how someone who is bigger can hit harder. This is why in boxing and MMA, they don't normally have fights outside of weight classes. So depending on the situation, pulverizing can certainly be appropriate term to use. Especially if I look at the post, a good part was "They're responsible for what happens". So would they in turn be responsible for a pulverizing? And not only that, but if you have a girlfriend attacking you, defending yourself can also be holding her, making sure she's not hitting you, and then getting out of the situation. It depends on how responsible the guy is. And plus, high emotion could lead to some pulverizing, depending on the situation. So you'd be cool with wrenching her arm from her socket? Maybe strangling her? Just so long as the guy doesn't take a swat at her? Of course you aren't. Just like how that other guy wasn't advocating caving her head in or 'putting the boots to her'. Any act you take in a situation like this, if taken to the extreme, can seriously injure someone. Doesn't mean that taking such an act automatically means that you're going to be out for blood. Yes, but fighting back and holding her to try and stop what's going on and escape are two different things. Wrenching her arm and strangling her aren't "holding her" and trying to stop her. They are "fighting back".
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Post by Dave the Dave on May 26, 2014 11:41:26 GMT -5
This kind of thing is why when (like in the other thread that's tackling women's rights) issues arise, we need to stop seeing it as men/women.
Because people pushing women's rights are doing to the right thing, but some men feel attacked because a lot of generalizations are thrown around. The labeling and shaming help no one. Pushing for equal rights shouldn't include such negativity.
I know I'll get disagreement but I see with the #YESALLWOMEN and #YESALLTEENAGEBOYS more shaming of men than helping women. Maybe I'm just unfortunately timing it to see more of those posts. But that is a problem too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2014 11:45:30 GMT -5
If people want a demonstration of a guy properly defending himself from a smaller woman attacking him, y'all can actually find a good example of that when Solange attacks Jay-Z.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 26, 2014 11:58:11 GMT -5
So you'd be cool with wrenching her arm from her socket? Maybe strangling her? Just so long as the guy doesn't take a swat at her? Of course you aren't. Just like how that other guy wasn't advocating caving her head in or 'putting the boots to her'. Any act you take in a situation like this, if taken to the extreme, can seriously injure someone. Doesn't mean that taking such an act automatically means that you're going to be out for blood. Yes, but fighting back and holding her to try and stop what's going on and escape are two different things. Wrenching her arm and strangling her aren't "holding her" and trying to stop her. They are "fighting back". So you don't believe you can injure someone by grabbing them or trying to hold them when they're thrashing about? Particularly if you're a lot bigger than them? Really?
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 26, 2014 11:59:41 GMT -5
Yes, but fighting back and holding her to try and stop what's going on and escape are two different things. Wrenching her arm and strangling her aren't "holding her" and trying to stop her. They are "fighting back". So you don't believe you can injure someone by grabbing them or trying to hold them when they're thrashing about? Particularly if you're a lot bigger than them? Really? It's possible certainly, and if it's the case where you can do damage just by doing that, yeah, just escape the situation. If you can really hurt someone by holding them back, then it gets really unfair.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on May 26, 2014 12:18:28 GMT -5
This is a hellishly difficult subject to deal with, and the video highlights part of the problem. As someone on the second page said, we have to stop seeing these incidents as gender specific. Domestic abuse should not be tolerated regardless of whether it is man-on-woman, woman-on-man, woman-on-woman or man-on-man violence. Domestic violence is a serious issue which should be dealt with as such regardless of which gender(s) are involved. This brings a question: What if a guy is trying to defend himself against a woman? If I was ever in a situation with a woman trying to beat the hell out of me, I'm not going to stand there and take it, and end up injured badly. I'm going to try to defend myself any way that I can. Of course, even if it was self-defense, there is often the case of a woman manipulating authorities into thinking it was domestic assault as opposed to self-defense. Yeah, but there are a lot of cases where the woman just isn't believed. I feel the "woman manipulating authorities" trope kinda needs to die off, because it really keeps people from reporting stuff, like rape, violence, etc. I'm sure it happens, everyone is human and capable of this stuff, but I feel that it's usually done to dismiss claims. In regards to your case, we go back to the Drew McIntyre/Taryn Terrell dilemma. How big are you? How big is she? I know that shouldn't matter, but it does. If she's really small, and you're a lot bigger then her, then no, you don't fight back, because it's simply not fair. You just get out of the situation asap and then report it. Just to get a grasp on your opinion of the situation would it make any difference if the woman abusing the man was bigger than him? Would that make it more of a serious problem? Would the man then be justified in retaliating?
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 26, 2014 12:22:00 GMT -5
This is a hellishly difficult subject to deal with, and the video highlights part of the problem. As someone on the second page said, we have to stop seeing these incidents as gender specific. Domestic abuse should not be tolerated regardless of whether it is man-on-woman, woman-on-man, woman-on-woman or man-on-man violence. Domestic violence is a serious issue which should be dealt with as such regardless of which gender(s) are involved. Yeah, but there are a lot of cases where the woman just isn't believed. I feel the "woman manipulating authorities" trope kinda needs to die off, because it really keeps people from reporting stuff, like rape, violence, etc. I'm sure it happens, everyone is human and capable of this stuff, but I feel that it's usually done to dismiss claims. In regards to your case, we go back to the Drew McIntyre/Taryn Terrell dilemma. How big are you? How big is she? I know that shouldn't matter, but it does. If she's really small, and you're a lot bigger then her, then no, you don't fight back, because it's simply not fair. You just get out of the situation asap and then report it. Just to get a grasp on your opinion of the situation would it make any difference if the woman abusing the man was bigger than him? Would that make it more of a serious problem? Would the man then be justified in retaliating? Yes he would.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on May 26, 2014 12:22:48 GMT -5
It's natural for people to find it amusing when a smaller creature attacks a larger one. Not condoning it, but that's how it is.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on May 26, 2014 12:59:04 GMT -5
It's natural for people to find it amusing when a smaller creature attacks a larger one. Not condoning it, but that's how it is. That's not natural at all..... YOU'RE SICK
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on May 26, 2014 13:04:05 GMT -5
Yeah no, if someone is attacking me, I do believe it's fair to fight back regardless of who they are. Why wouldn't it? They started it, they're responsible for what happens. I'm not gonna let myself get beat up because someone is smaller than me. It's not abuse to defend yourself. So you're just going to pulverize them? You have barely a scratch but they have their head caved in? If you're bigger, you can't attempt to control the situation, hold her down, escape, realize that you could do a lot of damage to her, instead of putting the boots to her. Dude, what do you think I am, a Sherman Tank? Are these the only two options I get? Getting beat-up and/or killed versus disintegrating them? There's a difference between defending myself and "pulverizing" them or "caving their face in". Last I checked, women aren't made of jello and they can cause major damage even with their bare hands, and of course they can cause much more than "just a scratch" if they're armed. So please don't go putting words in my mouth. All I said is that if someone attacks me and threatens my well-being let alone my life, I have a right to defend myself to make sure they do not harm me or anyone around and I don't care what their gender is because I'm an equal-opportunity self-defencer. I don't understand how you got that I'm going to bash their head in with a cinder block like I'm Alex DeLarge from this or something. I don't want to kill my attacker, just make sure they won't hurt anyone. Yeah no, if someone is attacking me, I do believe it's fair to fight back regardless of who they are. Why wouldn't it? They started it, they're responsible for what happens. I'm not gonna let myself get beat up because someone is smaller than me. It's not abuse to defend yourself. Actually, no; from a legal standpoint you need to be aware of how much more damage you might cause than your attacker in a case like this. If you're that much bigger/stronger, it won't be considered defensive if you throw a punch back and have the capability of taking your aggressor down with one blow. Defensive would be "I'm much larger/stronger, these blows don't hurt me that badly, I'm going to remove myself from this situation and report my attacker instead". If we're talking a random assault on the street, I think most people would whole-heartedly support defending such an action, since there isn't much in the way of time to assess what you're capable of doing to your attacker. If it's domestic or something, however, or simply a situation with a person you know, then it may very well be contingent on you being aware of such factors. Oh sure, if say, a kid gives me a light punch I can barely feel, I'm not gonna start wailing on them (in fact I wouldn't start wailing on a kid even if I could feel it), I'll just grab their arm and tell them to cut it out and/or seek their legal guardian to tell them to watch them. Hell, even with an adult, I'm not gonna trade blow over something like a slap. What I am saying is that if, say, someone tries to beta me up or comes at me with a knife, I do have enough self(respect to believe that my life and physical integrity are worth punching them in the mouth and regardless of who they are, I'm not going to feel bad about hitting them as long as it's in self-defence. And that's another thing, I'm going to just make sure they stop and are no longer a threat. I don't think that's "pulverizing" them. And yes, I understand that the average woman is smaller and physically weaker than the average man but first, I'm 5'5" and approx. 175 lbs, not exactly a juggernaut myself and second, being a woman isn't a handicap, they're not made of unstable molecules, they're not designed after Ford Pintos, they're not going to explode or fall to pieces at the slightest touch.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on May 26, 2014 13:04:16 GMT -5
This is a hellishly difficult subject to deal with, and the video highlights part of the problem. As someone on the second page said, we have to stop seeing these incidents as gender specific. Domestic abuse should not be tolerated regardless of whether it is man-on-woman, woman-on-man, woman-on-woman or man-on-man violence. Domestic violence is a serious issue which should be dealt with as such regardless of which gender(s) are involved. Just to get a grasp on your opinion of the situation would it make any difference if the woman abusing the man was bigger than him? Would that make it more of a serious problem? Would the man then be justified in retaliating? Yes he would. Well while I still disagree with you to an extent I can at least appreciate the gender neutrality of your argument.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 26, 2014 13:16:52 GMT -5
I'm 5'5", buck thirty five, I bet you a solid 50% of the female population is larger then me if not more, so I'm pretty much f***ed aren't I?
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Post by Cyno on May 26, 2014 13:31:59 GMT -5
You often see the kinda selfish question from men ignorant about feminism: "How does feminism benefit me?" This is one of the ways. Domestic violence against men is a pretty serious issue that isn't taken seriously by society because of culture-enforced views about women being weak, so it's not masculine to do anything about it: whether it's self-defense or reporting the violence to the police.
More gender equality means that men don't have to be afraid of being thought of as lesser for being the victim of domestic violence.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on May 26, 2014 13:34:41 GMT -5
You often see the kinda selfish question from men ignorant about feminism: "How does feminism benefit me?" This is one of the ways. Domestic violence against men is a pretty serious issue that isn't taken seriously by society because of culture-enforced views about women being weak, so it's not masculine to do anything about it: whether it's self-defense or reporting the violence to the police. More gender equality means that men don't have to be afraid of being thought of as lesser for being the victim of domestic violence. Wait feminism is about gender equality? I gotta stop going to tumbler for all my know how.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 26, 2014 14:19:20 GMT -5
I'm 5'5", buck thirty five, I bet you a solid 50% of the female population is larger then me if not more, so I'm pretty much f***ed aren't I? It depends. If you're apart of WWE, or a company that would punish you for such things, yes, but that doesn't make it right, and people who would make fun of you, there's a name for those people. They're called assholes. But, see, feminism was brought up, and it truly is about gender equality. Like, people on this board and myself can say it till we're blue in the face, but no one seems to get it. I've learned more about the issue of domestic violence against men from women then I have men, and on platforms like tumblr for example. The reason being is domestic violence is usually pegged on men because they cause the majority of it, but that doesn't mean that women and feminists don't give a f*** about men. In situations where the guy is a lot smaller, yeah, it's completely flipped on its head. And not only that, but this topic is very hetro-normative. In the case of same sex relationships, the same logic can apply. You know who made a really good point on this, and I'll get shit on for this. But, Dr. Phil did. Because they had this one episode where this was discussed, and the size issue came up and how unfair it is in that situation.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 26, 2014 14:40:39 GMT -5
The problem with saying "we need to be gender neutral on this" is that it ignores basic biology and statistics. No, woman-on-man domestic violence isn't justified, and people laughing at it because "he wasn't enough of a man" is bullshit, no argument whatsoever. But you can't ignore the simple biological reality of men being, on the whole, larger and/or stronger than women, with some exceptions here and there. This makes a difference in terms of the impact of a blow from a man vs. a hit from a woman. Statistically, we also can't ignore that the majority of domestic violence cases are man-on-woman. This does not negate the opposite kind, or minimize it, but man-on-woman is so much more prevalent and much more systemic within society, and thus must be treated as more of a systemic problem. You often see the kinda selfish question from men ignorant about feminism: "How does feminism benefit me?" This is one of the ways. Domestic violence against men is a pretty serious issue that isn't taken seriously by society because of culture-enforced views about women being weak, so it's not masculine to do anything about it: whether it's self-defense or reporting the violence to the police. More gender equality means that men don't have to be afraid of being thought of as lesser for being the victim of domestic violence. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 26, 2014 15:04:41 GMT -5
Is it majority of cases are male on female or is it majority of REPORTED cases/cases the cops actually investigated that are male on female? Because I've heard tonnes of stories about cops not taking female on male violence seriously
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