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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 4, 2014 11:23:14 GMT -5
Macklemore can EAD.
That's not tied in with the conversation at hand, I just don't like the dude.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 11:37:13 GMT -5
I think I know what you mean, but how does him saying the same thing other black rappers have said mean he's ignoring what they said? That's probably a bad sentence, haha! I mean... how does him saying rap is full of homophobic stuff ignore what people have said before? As much as I want Macklemore to...just...stop.... It's partly not Macklemore's fault the mainstream obsesses over him like they do. However, it is Macklemore's fault when he talks as if he's the first and only person connected to the rap game to make these observations. Him being on the platform he is means he's got a certain responsibility to do right by the genre, especially by all the black artists who will never get that platform no matter how hard they try. Because as I said before, he's an outsider mining black music (and culture really) to make money. The least he could do is not play into this "not like those 'other' rappers" nonsense, but hey...Macklemore ain't about shit so he's performing as expected. Why assume they don't? Some do. Some don't. What Macklemore does plays into the hands of demonizing rap and the black artists who participate in it (and the black people who listen to it). Hell, Macklemore ain't saying shit about it that Kanye West hasn't said at some point but I guarantee you'll never hear about it or remember it. It's much easier for the mainstream to throw Kanye under the bus as an egotistical, possibly talented, ranting man-child who has no idea about the world around him so he doesn't say anything important and never has. Just like those "other" rappers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 11:54:05 GMT -5
I think I know what you mean, but how does him saying the same thing other black rappers have said mean he's ignoring what they said? That's probably a bad sentence, haha! I mean... how does him saying rap is full of homophobic stuff ignore what people have said before? As much as I want Macklemore to...just...stop.... It's partly not Macklemore's fault the mainstream obsesses over him like they do. However, it is Macklemore's fault when he talks as if he's the first and only person connected to the rap game to make these observations. Him being on the platform he is means he's got a certain responsibility to do right by the genre, especially by all the black artists who will never get that platform no matter how hard they try. Because as I said before, he's an outsider mining black music (and culture really) to make money. The least he could do is not play into this "not like those 'other' rappers" nonsense, but hey...Macklemore ain't about shit so I don't expect him to. Why assume they don't? Some do. Some don't. What Macklemore does plays into the hands of demonizing rap and the black artists who participate in it (and the black people who listen to it). Hell, Macklemore ain't saying shit about it that Kanye West hasn't said at some point but I guarantee you'll never hear about it or remember it. It's much easier for the mainstream to throw Kanye under the bus as an egotistical, possibly talented, ranting man-child who has no idea about the world around him so he doesn't say anything important and never has. Just like those "other" rappers. Oh oh oh ok. I THINK I get it now. So you're gripe with Macklemore isn't that he's speaking out against homophobia in hip hop, but that he's NOT highlighting black artists who have already said the same thing he's saying. Am I getting that right? Like if he were to say, "Hip hop should be more friendly to gay people. Kanye west said it best man, 'I'm hella gay.'" and then went on to reference conscious hip hop acts who have said the same thing. Stuff like that. Would that be better? Because, yeah the guy is obviously parlaying anti-homophobic sentiment into $$$$, but that's kind of what the music biz is all about. Marketing your music to make money. Its no secret thats what the music business and especially mainstream rap is all about whether it be misogny, gang life, drugs, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 13:32:30 GMT -5
Oh oh oh ok. I THINK I get it now. So you're gripe with Macklemore isn't that he's speaking out against homophobia in hip hop, but that he's NOT highlighting black artists who have already said the same thing he's saying. Am I getting that right? Like if he were to say, "Hip hop should be more friendly to gay people. Kanye west said it best man, 'I'm hella gay.'" and then went on to reference conscious hip hop acts who have said the same thing. Stuff like that. Would that be better? That would at least be something. That's not so much the case now because the internet has changed everything. Though there is definitely the idea that that is all rap has ever been about and Wacklemore Don't-Come-Backlemore Macklemore is the "post-black" savior of rap taking it to new heights. Personally, I'm waiting for rap history to be scrubbed just like jazz and everything rock was...but that's another topic for another day. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 13:54:18 GMT -5
Oh oh oh ok. I THINK I get it now. So you're gripe with Macklemore isn't that he's speaking out against homophobia in hip hop, but that he's NOT highlighting black artists who have already said the same thing he's saying. Am I getting that right? Like if he were to say, "Hip hop should be more friendly to gay people. Kanye west said it best man, 'I'm hella gay.'" and then went on to reference conscious hip hop acts who have said the same thing. Stuff like that. Would that be better? That would at least be something. That's not so much the case now because the internet has changed everything. Though there is definitely the idea that that is all rap has ever been about and Wacklemore Don't-Come-Backlemore Macklemore is the "post-black" savior of rap taking it to new heights. Personally, I'm waiting for rap history to be scrubbed just like jazz and everything rock was...but that's another topic for another day. For sure, but even with the internet changing things, the mainstream, popular rap scene is still kinda stuck in the early 2000's in terms of lyrical content. Which sucks, because in any genre of music whats popular ends up being some of the worst stuff, but still defines that genre in the eyes of most people. Though I've never really gotten the sense that macklemoer is the white savior of hip hop. I don't even think most people take him seriously as a hip hop act - he's more pop than anything imo. The same thing happened to electronic dance music. People love to pigeonhole EDM under dudes like Skrillex, but that's not even close to being the case. That dude...I don't get his shit at all. I dunno. On the one hand I know what you mean that he's pigeonholing rap and trying to paint himself as the ONE guy who is doing it with a concious, but on the other I am glad it at least put that talking point onto a bigger platform. Should it, ideally have come from a better representative? of course, but I do think that its good that its at least being acknowledged more and will hopefully inspire people not to write-off hip hop, but put more effort into finding artists who don't fall back on that kind of stuff for lyrical content. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jun 4, 2014 14:18:16 GMT -5
On a similar note chazraps, what's your feelings on Brand Nubian's Lord Jamar's comments that white rappers are "guests" in hip-hop where he basically said that white people don't deserve as much of a voice in rap as blacks? Lord Jamar put out the absolute human rights violation of a album that was The 5% Album so he isn't allowed to have his comments on anything hip-hop related register in even the slightest bit of mattering. Seriously though, of course any white practitioner of hip-hop should have reverence, respect and awareness of the pioneers who created it and its origins in the black community. Lord Jamar just chose to articulate this point in the most backwards Grandpa Simpson way possible. |
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Post by chazraps on Jun 4, 2014 14:26:42 GMT -5
I actually don't think race played as big of a role into Eminem's success as even Eminem claims it does. If you look at the other breakthrough rappers of 98/99, Em was selling on par with them. DMX and Juvenile were as big of stars as Em was at one point because the three of them sounded so absolutely different than anyone else in rap, and their stuff was infectious enough to translate to the pop charts. Em kept up a greater consistency than the other two (he surrounded himself with enough major players to keep quality control high) and that's why he's become such an icon of the genre. But, let's be real, if 50 Cent or Kanye West were white, they wouldn't have been bigger in that same decade than they got. Same with Nelly. I know a lot of people would claim that Eminem's race didn't play much of a role in his success, but with the history of the country affecting the music genre as it has and considering Eminem himself cops to this, I dunno what else can be said. Part of Em surrounding himself with the people he did was about maintaining credibility with a certain audience as much as it was quality. Sure, Em might have been selling on par with the black contemporaries at the time, but the buzz and accolades around Em were totally different. Sure people loved X, but any time the mainstream talked about Eminem is was damn near in reverence. How he was "transcending" the genre. How he was one of the best rappers alive. How he made rap into an art form. Even with all the sleazy shit Em was rapping about, Eminem was rap god for a minute. There's a clear implication with the type of slobbering a lot of people did over Eminem. Ain't nobody saying you'd automatically succeed just by being a white person. I'm saying the bar for having skills is certainly different and if you actually succeed, the ceiling for your success is much higher than it is for any comparable black artist doing our own music. A black person having to work twice as hard to get half as much... Elvis was marketable as hell. A lot of his marketability really did relate to the fact he was a white dude doing black music. I mean, the dude came up in the 50's and 60's... I'm not even talking about his talents as an entertainer here. You can't really just decide Eminem's race doesn't matter, though. Especially when you talk about how his looks played a factor. Em is going to be just as white off that stage as he is on. He doesn't suddenly become raceless. I mean, Eminem is the guy who thought "Just Lose It" and "We Made You" were quality first singles, so I wouldn't give his opinion on anything, especially himself, much credence. Seriously though, people fawned over Eminem at the time as the best rapper on the planet because he legitimately was the best rapper on the planet. He was also incredibly handsome, and when you have that combination of marketability and being an absolute virtuoso, of course you're going to dominate media outlets. If anything, I think Eminem might be guilty of over-hyping the effect "Whiteness" had on his career so he could make the "Self-awareness" part of his character and create songs white people love like "White America." But still, there was really no rapper anywhere in the world of any race making tracks as stylistically diverse, absurdly complex and yet ridiculously catchy as "Criminal" in 2000. Nobody. That track was not of this Earth. But as big as Em was in 2000, that's just as big as Lil Wayne was in 2006. Same reasons too. Absolute best in the medium at the time, looked like a star, unique engaging story. The exact same buzz and accolades Eminem was getting. And the "Transcending the genre" thing has moreso to Eminem's "My Name Is" getting played on rock stations, which has become a touch overhyped as a factoid. Anytime there's a novelty-ish rap song or one that's catchy with the slightest bit of instrumentation, it lands rotation on rock stations. The exact same thing happened to Afroman's "Because I Got High" in 2001 and Lyrics Born's "Callin' Out" in 2004, so I don't put much stock into that. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 4, 2014 14:33:08 GMT -5
Macklemore can EAD. That's not tied in with the conversation at hand, I just don't like the dude. In third grade, he thought he maybe wanted to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 14:59:13 GMT -5
I mean, Eminem is the guy who thought "Just Lose It" and "We Made You" were quality first singles, so I wouldn't give his opinion on anything, especially himself, much credence. Seriously though, people fawned over Eminem at the time as the best rapper on the planet because he legitimately was the best rapper on the planet. He was also incredibly handsome, and when you have that combination of marketability and being an absolute virtuoso, of course you're going to dominate media outlets. If anything, I think Eminem might be guilty of over-hyping the effect "Whiteness" had on his career so he could make the "Self-awareness" part of his character and create songs white people love like "White America." But still, there was really no rapper anywhere in the world of any race making tracks as stylistically diverse, absurdly complex and yet ridiculously catchy as "Criminal" in 2000. Nobody. That track was not of this Earth. But as big as Em was in 2000, that's just as big as Lil Wayne was in 2006. Same reasons too. Absolute best in the medium at the time, looked like a star, unique engaging story. The exact same buzz and accolades Eminem was getting. And the "Transcending the genre" thing has moreso to Eminem's "My Name Is" getting played on rock stations, which has become a touch overhyped as a factoid. Anytime there's a novelty-ish rap song or one that's catchy with the slightest bit of instrumentation, it lands rotation on rock stations. The exact same thing happened to Afroman's "Because I Got High" in 2001 and Lyrics Born's "Callin' Out" in 2004, so I don't put much stock into that. Sure Em screwed up with those shitty singles, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to his whiteness. Especially when what he said about it aligned pretty well with how white artists in black music generally get treated and hyped. Whether he said it to feign self-awareness or not, the fact saying such pegs him as having self-awareness speaks volumes. Granted, I did say Em also wasn't about shit and him directly talking about using that to make himself wealthy makes him look even worse... And...while I was never on Team Weezy, I do remember that phase. Though I blame that on the fact I lived about 30 minutes away from New Orleans at the time and really got sick of him before he even blew up like that... Weezy was hyped as the shit, but I honestly didn't see the reverence people had for Em when talking about Wayne. Like people respected that Weezy was the best rapper at the time, but he wasn't getting the accolades Em was getting for being an "artist" not "just" a really good rapper. There was a subtle difference. It's not so much getting play on the other rock stations when I'm talking about "transcending the genre." I'm talking about the way the mainstream react to these guys. It's like the mere fact Em exists and is popular means he "transcends the genre" to a lot of people, but eh...lemme stop before this gets too far down the Eminem rabbit hole. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jun 4, 2014 15:39:10 GMT -5
I mean, Eminem is the guy who thought "Just Lose It" and "We Made You" were quality first singles, so I wouldn't give his opinion on anything, especially himself, much credence. Seriously though, people fawned over Eminem at the time as the best rapper on the planet because he legitimately was the best rapper on the planet. He was also incredibly handsome, and when you have that combination of marketability and being an absolute virtuoso, of course you're going to dominate media outlets. If anything, I think Eminem might be guilty of over-hyping the effect "Whiteness" had on his career so he could make the "Self-awareness" part of his character and create songs white people love like "White America." But still, there was really no rapper anywhere in the world of any race making tracks as stylistically diverse, absurdly complex and yet ridiculously catchy as "Criminal" in 2000. Nobody. That track was not of this Earth. But as big as Em was in 2000, that's just as big as Lil Wayne was in 2006. Same reasons too. Absolute best in the medium at the time, looked like a star, unique engaging story. The exact same buzz and accolades Eminem was getting. And the "Transcending the genre" thing has moreso to Eminem's "My Name Is" getting played on rock stations, which has become a touch overhyped as a factoid. Anytime there's a novelty-ish rap song or one that's catchy with the slightest bit of instrumentation, it lands rotation on rock stations. The exact same thing happened to Afroman's "Because I Got High" in 2001 and Lyrics Born's "Callin' Out" in 2004, so I don't put much stock into that. Sure Em screwed up with those shitty singles, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to his whiteness. Especially when what he said about it aligned pretty well with how white artists in black music generally get treated and hyped. Whether he said it to feign self-awareness or not, the fact saying such pegs him as having self-awareness speaks volumes. Granted, I did say Em also wasn't about shit and him directly talking about using that to make himself wealthy makes him look even worse... And...while I was never on Team Weezy, I do remember that phase. Though I blame that on the fact I lived about 30 minutes away from New Orleans at the time and really got sick of him before he even blew up like that... Weezy was hyped as the shit, but I honestly didn't see the reverence people had for Em when talking about Wayne. Like people respected that Weezy was the best rapper at the time, but he wasn't getting the accolades Em was getting for being an "artist" not "just" a really good rapper. There was a subtle difference. It's not so much getting play on the other rock stations when I'm talking about "transcending the genre." I'm talking about the way the mainstream react to these guys. It's like the mere fact Em exists and is popular means he "transcends the genre" to a lot of people, but eh...lemme stop before this gets too far down the Eminem rabbit hole. Having gone back and forth between Minneapolis and New York a lot at the time, I can say for certain that Wayne was getting the same accolades as "an artist." You can even see it in the excellent Tha Carter documentary that came out a few years back where pretentious interviewers try to ask him questions about how his music is more in-line of jazz greats than rappers. I think that stems from critics/journalists who have some deep-seeded objection to owning up to enjoying rap at face value and feel compelled to differentiate the rap artists who they gravitate towards as being somehow "above" other rappers. Perhaps with Eminem this was the most overt because, frankly, 2000 was the absolute biggest year that the music industry ever had. But now that the pool is so much smaller, the dominating heads in rap are really the ones who are given this "bigger than rap" title. Look at how much the roll-out of Magna Carta Holy Grail last year had people talking about a cell phone app like it was the greatest hip-hop innovation of the 21st century. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 16:20:30 GMT -5
chazrapsJust a technicality...Crack a Bottle was first on Relapse then it was We Made You Though it doesn't make a difference on quality wise, it's worth bringing up  I will continue my portion of the conversation when I get on the computer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 16:37:53 GMT -5
People are giving Macklemore crap, but the truth is he can't change. Even if he tried. Even if he wanted to.
He doesn't keep me warm though.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 4, 2014 16:46:09 GMT -5
I think right now, out of any guy you can say has "transcended the genre," I think that label is most accurate for Jay-Z. The guy has a brilliant mind for business and promotion. And maybe Dre because he's made gazillions off of a brand of headphones while Detox only exists in a nuclear fallout shelter somewhere in Nevada.
No, I'm not bitter about that at all. What made you think that?
Speaking of Dre, Eminem wouldn't be shit without Dre "discovering" him and helping him get into the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 17:52:59 GMT -5
People are giving Macklemore crap, but the truth is he can't change. Even if he tried. Even if he wanted to. He doesn't keep me warm though. Then he's not trying hard enough  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 17:59:15 GMT -5
It seems like the emphasis and importance is on who said what first not on what was said. Unfortunately the human ego tends to supersede that and the message loses every time.
While I understand and agree with the reasons for properly accrediting someone, if the message is that important the credit shouldn't matter.
Now I'm not saying that in a "ends justify the means" kind of way. If you are completely misrepresenting something or a colossal prick in your journey to bring something to light than that is a different situation.
But if the worst thing you ever did was not say "Hey, there are some other guys who promote this idea too and they were doing it long before me, here are their names specifically" then whoever is holding that grudge should just let it go.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jun 4, 2014 18:46:40 GMT -5
I just want to say, Childish Gambino is whiter then Eminem has ever been.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jun 4, 2014 19:20:35 GMT -5
You know who's not getting enough love? Danny Brown.
SUPH
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