1980s Womens Wrestling

[HMARK Center]

I don't have a ton to say, but I recently watched an AWA match from one of their ESPN shows where Wendi Richter faced The Dazzler, and the following things about it struck me as remarkable:

#1 - The match went around 10 minutes.

#2 - The match main-evented the broadcast.

#3 - The actual wrestling wasn't anything mind-blowing, but it was certainly solid.

#4 - The women fought hard enough that it looked like a feud began between them based on nothing besides how badly they were willing to hurt one another for the belt.

#5 - The commentators didn't once use any innuendo or do anything but play up both competitors as legitimate athletes competing for a prize (Richter's title belt). They did say "Wendi Richter is hot!"...only in reference to her being angry at her opponent.

It's kind of pathetic that I had to find these things so remarkable, but dear God, this was from the 1980s and was leagues more effective and frankly progressive than the vast bulk of mainstream US womens wrestling since the 1990s. Women treated as legitimate competitors, given a prominent spot on the show, wrestling a decent, lengthy (for free TV) match, and getting an actual feud based on competition getting personal? You'd think a US booker would've figured this out more consistently by now.

I guess to make this more of a discussion: do you think there was a point in time where US women's wrestling could've gone in a very different, more productive direction? It's great that promotions like SHIMMER rose they way they did, and TNA nearly had something special with the KO division for awhile, but, geez, again, this was from the 80s and felt less regressive than most of what we've gotten in the more modern era.

[Vice honcho room temperature]

WWE Raw had Trish and Lita main event an episode and TNA Impact had Gail Kim and Awesome Kong main event an episode. It happens but the idea is do they continue with it or was it a one time thing

[Deleted]

There have been many attempts made to find an audience for women's wrestling in the U.S. mainstreams (WWE/WCW) and nothing came of them. In the 80's, WWE tried to resurrect it with Wendi Richter, then later it was Rockin' Robin, then after that Alundra Blayze, and it just never took off. Yeah, maybe women's wrestling was treated with a little more dignity back then, but the tradeoff was that very few people cared whether Velvet McIntyre would dethrone the Fabulous Moolah, because women's wrestling was mostly women who looked like our grandmothers rolling around in zebra patterned swimsuits that crawled disturbingly into their crevices. That aside, it was usually really boring to watch. It only really started working when Sunny became the most downloaded celebrity on AOL, and Vince figured out what they needed were hot women wearing reasonably little clothing (duh). As bad as the divas division may be, I'm pretty sure it's more popular than women's wrestling in the good ol' days ever was.

[nisidhe]

Jun 20, 2014 23:49:12 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

There have been many attempts made to find an audience for women's wrestling in the U.S. mainstreams (WWE/WCW) and nothing came of them. In the 80's, WWE tried to resurrect it with Wendi Richter, then later it was Rockin' Robin, then after that Alundra Blayze, and it just never took off. Yeah, maybe women's wrestling was treated with a little more dignity back then, but the tradeoff was that very few people cared whether Velvet McIntyre would dethrone the Fabulous Moolah, because women's wrestling was mostly women who looked like our grandmothers rolling around in zebra patterned swimsuits that crawled disturbingly into their crevices. That aside, it was usually really boring to watch. It only really started working when Sunny became the most downloaded celebrity on AOL, and Vince figured out what they needed were hot women wearing reasonably little clothing (duh). As bad as the divas division may be, I'm pretty sure it's more popular than women's wrestling in the good ol' days ever was.

It's more accurate to suggest, with what we know now about Moolah's influence on North American women's wrestling during the 1960s to 1980s, that a lot of promotions simply opted not to deal with her (perhaps fearing what she might have had on them) and instead quietly buried or phased out their women's championships. During the 1980s, it also became not unheard-of for some women wrestlers to transition over to valets/managers to avoid the exploitive terms by which Moolah treated women wrestlers (claiming 1/2 their pay as management fees, demanding that they rent/purchase only through her, and at exorbitant cost; blocking any attempts by promoters to put her girls up against women who didn't accept her terms or weren't managed by her.) There were high spots - Rockin' Robin and the Jumping Bomb Angels among them, as well as Alundra Blayze and the influx of Japanese talent in the mid-90s. However, these were brief because either Moolah managed _still_ to get her claws into the scene or, in the case of Alundra/Madusa, the marquee talent left and had not built the women's division sufficiently beforehand. The only high-profile alternative during the '80s - David McLane's GLOW and POWW promotions - were far too insular and, training by Hector Guerrero aside, were far less about wrestling than "sports entertainment." Really, it was only when WWE, and perhaps to a similar extent WCW, became governed by boards of directors and regulating bodies and shareholders that Moolah's influence over the business end really waned.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

Jun 20, 2014 23:49:12 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

There have been many attempts made to find an audience for women's wrestling in the U.S. mainstreams (WWE/WCW) and nothing came of them. In the 80's, WWE tried to resurrect it with Wendi Richter, then later it was Rockin' Robin, then after that Alundra Blayze, and it just never took off. Yeah, maybe women's wrestling was treated with a little more dignity back then, but the tradeoff was that very few people cared whether Velvet McIntyre would dethrone the Fabulous Moolah, because women's wrestling was mostly women who looked like our grandmothers rolling around in zebra patterned swimsuits that crawled disturbingly into their crevices. That aside, it was usually really boring to watch. It only really started working when Sunny became the most downloaded celebrity on AOL, and Vince figured out what they needed were hot women wearing reasonably little clothing (duh). As bad as the divas division may be, I'm pretty sure it's more popular than women's wrestling in the good ol' days ever was.

It's more accurate to suggest, with what we know now about Moolah's influence on North American women's wrestling during the 1960s to 1980s, that a lot of promotions simply opted not to deal with her (perhaps fearing what she might have had on them) and instead quietly buried or phased out their women's championships. During the 1980s, it also became not unheard-of for some women wrestlers to transition over to valets/managers to avoid the exploitive terms by which Moolah treated women wrestlers (claiming 1/2 their pay as management fees, demanding that they rent/purchase only through her, and at exorbitant cost; blocking any attempts by promoters to put her girls up against women who didn't accept her terms or weren't managed by her.) There were high spots - Rockin' Robin and the Jumping Bomb Angels among them, as well as Alundra Blayze and the influx of Japanese talent in the mid-90s. However, these were brief because either Moolah managed _still_ to get her claws into the scene or, in the case of Alundra/Madusa, the marquee talent left and had not built the women's division sufficiently beforehand. The only high-profile alternative during the '80s - David McLane's GLOW and POWW promotions - were far too insular and, training by Hector Guerrero aside, were far less about wrestling than "sports entertainment." Really, it was only when WWE, and perhaps to a similar extent WCW, became governed by boards of directors and regulating bodies and shareholders that Moolah's influence over the business end really waned.

That's interesting.  I guess this is a page of wrestling history that I missed, because I had no idea about any of this Moolah stuff.  

[Kash Flagg]

Jun 21, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

Jun 20, 2014 23:49:12 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

There have been many attempts made to find an audience for women's wrestling in the U.S. mainstreams (WWE/WCW) and nothing came of them. In the 80's, WWE tried to resurrect it with Wendi Richter, then later it was Rockin' Robin, then after that Alundra Blayze, and it just never took off. Yeah, maybe women's wrestling was treated with a little more dignity back then, but the tradeoff was that very few people cared whether Velvet McIntyre would dethrone the Fabulous Moolah, because women's wrestling was mostly women who looked like our grandmothers rolling around in zebra patterned swimsuits that crawled disturbingly into their crevices. That aside, it was usually really boring to watch. It only really started working when Sunny became the most downloaded celebrity on AOL, and Vince figured out what they needed were hot women wearing reasonably little clothing (duh). As bad as the divas division may be, I'm pretty sure it's more popular than women's wrestling in the good ol' days ever was.

It's more accurate to suggest, with what we know now about Moolah's influence on North American women's wrestling during the 1960s to 1980s, that a lot of promotions simply opted not to deal with her (perhaps fearing what she might have had on them) and instead quietly buried or phased out their women's championships. During the 1980s, it also became not unheard-of for some women wrestlers to transition over to valets/managers to avoid the exploitive terms by which Moolah treated women wrestlers (claiming 1/2 their pay as management fees, demanding that they rent/purchase only through her, and at exorbitant cost; blocking any attempts by promoters to put her girls up against women who didn't accept her terms or weren't managed by her.) There were high spots - Rockin' Robin and the Jumping Bomb Angels among them, as well as Alundra Blayze and the influx of Japanese talent in the mid-90s. However, these were brief because either Moolah managed _still_ to get her claws into the scene or, in the case of Alundra/Madusa, the marquee talent left and had not built the women's division sufficiently beforehand. The only high-profile alternative during the '80s - David McLane's GLOW and POWW promotions - were far too insular and, training by Hector Guerrero aside, were far less about wrestling than "sports entertainment." Really, it was only when WWE, and perhaps to a similar extent WCW, became governed by boards of directors and regulating bodies and shareholders that Moolah's influence over the business end really waned.

Excellent post. i think you nailed it on women's wrestling in the 80's. Moolah really held it back with the way she handled things.

[HMARK Center]

It's a pity, really: It felt like proof, to me at least, that if you simply let the women present themselves in a manner similar to the men, they'll be able to get over and, even if they don't achieve the same level of popularity as the big name guys, then they can at least generate a reaction that warrants legitimate TV/PPV time.

The big thing that I take away now is how TNA basically blew their shot at having a strong, legitimate women's division, and how WWE keeps defaulting to infantilizing their women by only giving most of them first names, and how they're perpetually in the "piss break" matches (seriously, I feel awful for the women who had to follow 'Taker's streak ending at 'Mania this year).

Just fun to think what could've been.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2014 19:15:53 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

It's a pity, really: It felt like proof, to me at least, that if you simply let the women present themselves in a manner similar to the men, they'll be able to get over and, even if they don't achieve the same level of popularity as the big name guys, then they can at least generate a reaction that warrants legitimate TV/PPV time.

The big thing that I take away now is how TNA basically blew their shot at having a strong, legitimate women's division, and how WWE keeps defaulting to infantilizing their women by only giving most of them first names, and how they're perpetually in the "piss break" matches (seriously, I feel awful for the women who had to follow 'Taker's streak ending at 'Mania this year).

Just fun to think what could've been.

Call me a cynic but I have trouble seeing the Women's division taking off back then, regardless.  Just look at the women that made up that division, and I mean no disrespect but most of them were seriously not "superstar" calibur.  Hardly any of them were impressive at all, physically.  The longer their matches went, the more dull they tended to be.  Whatever anyone says about the divas or women's wrestling today, the fact is that there is a lot larger pool of talent now than there was back in those days when Leilani Kai was the perennial #1 contender. 

[RowdyRobbyPiper]

Jun 20, 2014 23:49:12 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

There have been many attempts made to find an audience for women's wrestling in the U.S. mainstreams (WWE/WCW) and nothing came of them. In the 80's, WWE tried to resurrect it with Wendi Richter, then later it was Rockin' Robin, then after that Alundra Blayze, and it just never took off. Yeah, maybe women's wrestling was treated with a little more dignity back then, but the tradeoff was that very few people cared whether Velvet McIntyre would dethrone the Fabulous Moolah, because women's wrestling was mostly women who looked like our grandmothers rolling around in zebra patterned swimsuits that crawled disturbingly into their crevices. That aside, it was usually really boring to watch. It only really started working when Sunny became the most downloaded celebrity on AOL, and Vince figured out what they needed were hot women wearing reasonably little clothing (duh). As bad as the divas division may be, I'm pretty sure it's more popular than women's wrestling in the good ol' days ever was.

Wendi and Medusa were the real deal and quite frankly it pissed me off seeing Wendi, especially, as well as Trish and Lita being buried in Lipstick and Dynamite.