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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jun 24, 2014 18:06:00 GMT -5
Okay so it's been about 10 years since the million dollar Tough Enough happened in which we saw Daniel Puder beat out The Miz to win the contract. Back in 2004, I always remember Puder being promoted as an "Ultimate Fighter" or something along those lines. The impression I got was that the guy fought in the UFC before. However I just checked the guy's MMA record and found something that now annoys me. Prior to Tough Enough, Puder had a total of ONE MMA fight, and it wasn't even in the UFC, or hell even a promotion anyone's heard of. In my opinion, Puder won literally only because of the fact that he was seen as the UFC guy so I have to ask, who exactly was falsely promoting the guy? Did WWE made it seem like he was a UFC guy? Did Puder himself promote himself like that? Or did the fans assume things and word of mouth ended up creating a blatant lie?
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Post by King Bebe on Jun 24, 2014 18:09:34 GMT -5
I hated when Benoit/Holly/Eddie stiffed him at the Rumble. Sure he might have been cocky but it was unprofessional IMO.
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MrBRulzOK
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jun 24, 2014 18:10:21 GMT -5
Nah, Puder won because he nearly broke Kurt Angle's arm during one of those challenges they did every week in a shoot, which I imagine impressed enough of the fans so much that they got behind him for the remainder of the contest. Basically he won because he went into business for himself. Although promoting himself as a UFC guy probably didn't hurt things.
...And then the WWE proceeded to take their revenge at the Royal Rumble by having Benoit, Guerrero, and Holly chop the everloving crap out of him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 24, 2014 18:18:54 GMT -5
I always assumed that Daniel Puder wanted to do what Brock Lesnar eventually ended up doing: gain notoriety from pro wrestling and then parlay that into a prolific MMA career down the line.
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Jun 24, 2014 18:33:53 GMT -5
I hated when Benoit/Holly/Eddie stiffed him at the Rumble. Sure he might have been cocky but it was unprofessional IMO. About as unprofessional as locking Kurt Angle in a legit submission hold when Angle wasn't expecting it. Fair enough Puder was trying to make a name for himself, but he had to have had a brick where his brain would be to believe that would be a good idea. He deserved the beating he got. |
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jun 24, 2014 18:35:50 GMT -5
I hated when Benoit/Holly/Eddie stiffed him at the Rumble. Sure he might have been cocky but it was unprofessional IMO. Yeah, it was stupid. I understand that they were upset about what happened with Angle, but that was mostly on WWE for promoting a shoot fight. Basically he won because he went into business for himself. What was Puder supposed to do? They were told to go in there and do their best. Angle himself was shooting on the guys. It's a catch 22. |
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Post by King Bebe on Jun 24, 2014 18:43:29 GMT -5
I hated when Benoit/Holly/Eddie stiffed him at the Rumble. Sure he might have been cocky but it was unprofessional IMO. About as unprofessional as locking Kurt Angle in a legit submission hold when Angle wasn't expecting it. Fair enough Puder was trying to make a name for himself, but he had to have had a brick where his brain would be to believe that would be a good idea. He deserved the beating he got. Purer was told that competition was legit. |
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Tony Schiavontay
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Jun 24, 2014 18:49:08 GMT -5
About as unprofessional as locking Kurt Angle in a legit submission hold when Angle wasn't expecting it. Fair enough Puder was trying to make a name for himself, but he had to have had a brick where his brain would be to believe that would be a good idea. He deserved the beating he got. Purer was told that competition was legit. Yeah I'm pretty sure the Puder/Angle incident was the same kind of deal as the Brawl For All where they tell them to treat it like a shoot and then bury a guy for having the audacity to actually treat it like a shoot. |
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Post by KobashiChop on Jun 24, 2014 19:02:32 GMT -5
Tazz claims he is a UFC fighter during his shoot with Angle. He even says "So much for the UFC" afterwards.
As for the whole Angle shoot, it looked like Angle just wanted a chance to stroke his ego and thanks to a smart ref, was saved from legit injury and major embarrassment. Don't get pissed when you challenge a rookie to a shoot and they shoot on you. Apparently Angle had injured one of the others anyway, he got what he deserved. It goes to guys like Hardcore Holly, who is filler material at best and has been throughout his career, who have to get off on bullying rookies who don't retaliate out of fear. If ever someone deserved an injury, it was him against Lesnar. Pro Wrestlings concept of hazing is pathetic and juvenile at best.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jun 24, 2014 19:20:29 GMT -5
It was supposed to be a shoot "amateur wrestling" match. No hooks.
That said, with about a year of training, Angle would have straight up murdered Puder in an actual MMA fight. Daniel Cormier is making it look pretty easy these days in UFC against elite level guys, and even he didn't have the Olympic credentials Angle does/did.
That said, Angle's "career" would have been short due to injury. But even having just one match, like say a Batista, he'd have won handily over Puder.
If Puder had anything to really offer UFC, or really anywhere credible over the years like Strikeforce, WEC, etc., he'd have been hired at some point. I mean, there's about 300 or more fighters under contract in UFC right now, for goodness sakes.
That said, this was 2004. UFC wouldn't really blow up mainstream until the next year, so it was easy for WWE to allude to Puder being a UFC fighter without too many people calling bullshit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 19:49:33 GMT -5
Puder had an MMA look, so it wasn't a bad move to promote him as an MMA guy. The Angle situation, they really handled badly, though. It never should've been a shoot. But the fact is, it happened and instead of taking advantage, they punished him for basically doing what he was told.
If they had been smart, they would've send Puder to OVW for six months after he won, then brought him back in the summer to feud with Angle. That would've been a much better alternative than Eugene for a SummerSlam program. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the original plan before they decided to release Puder.
As for the Rumble incident, it didn't shock me at all. Benoit and Holly were two of the most unprofessional guys in the back when it came to rookies. And Eddie wasn't exactly exempt from being an asshole, either. There wasn't any need for it, outside of giving the boys a laugh, but nothing about it was too surprising, seeing who was involved.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 24, 2014 21:27:43 GMT -5
As for the whole Angle shoot, it looked like Angle just wanted a chance to stroke his ego and thanks to a smart ref, was saved from legit injury and major embarrassment. People always say this, but that's really not how I remember it at all. Puder's shoulders were down because he rolled over onto his back. When they were up, Angle said something along the lines of, "It's not MMA; it's a wrestling match. You never turn over onto your back." Puder said, "Yes sir." And yeah, the less said about the Rumble, the better. Truly embarrassing. |
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jun 24, 2014 21:32:11 GMT -5
It was supposed to be a shoot "amateur wrestling" match. No hooks. That said, with about a year of training, Angle would have straight up murdered Puder in an actual MMA fight. Daniel Cormier is making it look pretty easy these days in UFC against elite level guys, and even he didn't have the Olympic credentials Angle does/did. That said, Angle's "career" would have been short due to injury. But even having just one match, like say a Batista, he'd have won handily over Puder. If Puder had anything to really offer UFC, or really anywhere credible over the years like Strikeforce, WEC, etc., he'd have been hired at some point. I mean, there's about 300 or more fighters under contract in UFC right now, for goodness sakes. That said, this was 2004. UFC wouldn't really blow up mainstream until the next year, so it was easy for WWE to allude to Puder being a UFC fighter without too many people calling bullshit. I believe Puder actually WAS in Strikeforce at one point. Not sure how well he really did, though. |
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jun 24, 2014 21:36:58 GMT -5
It was supposed to be a shoot "amateur wrestling" match. No hooks. That said, with about a year of training, Angle would have straight up murdered Puder in an actual MMA fight. Daniel Cormier is making it look pretty easy these days in UFC against elite level guys, and even he didn't have the Olympic credentials Angle does/did. That said, Angle's "career" would have been short due to injury. But even having just one match, like say a Batista, he'd have won handily over Puder. If Puder had anything to really offer UFC, or really anywhere credible over the years like Strikeforce, WEC, etc., he'd have been hired at some point. I mean, there's about 300 or more fighters under contract in UFC right now, for goodness sakes. That said, this was 2004. UFC wouldn't really blow up mainstream until the next year, so it was easy for WWE to allude to Puder being a UFC fighter without too many people calling bullshit. I believe Puder actually WAS in Strikeforce at one point. Not sure how well he really did, though. You are actually right. He had 3 fights there. His record was pretty good (8-0), albeit against nobodies. So I wonder why he never got on a UFC card? With how many shows they started churning out, I'd think they'd have at least given him an undercard or prelim spot at some point before he retired. |
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Jun 24, 2014 21:45:23 GMT -5
Anyone remember the ROH show Puder was in the audience for? I think mega-heel Larry Sweeney called him out and when Puder stood up the crowd booed the shit out of him. I think there was even a "We don't want this" chant. That is go away heat.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 24, 2014 21:48:38 GMT -5
f***er gave us that wretched "Had a Bad Day" song, he deserves any hate he gets
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Post by kidglov3s on Jun 24, 2014 21:53:01 GMT -5
That said, Angle's "career" would have been short due to injury. But even having just one match, like say a Batista, he'd have won handily over Puder. RETURN OF THE SUPERFIGHT! Kurt Angle vs Vince Lucero! |
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 24, 2014 21:55:54 GMT -5
It was one of those situations where, if you asked me "Who was wrong, Angle or Puder?" and my reply would be "Yes."
Brawl for All shit is always a bad idea. Shoots like that do not belong in professional wrestling, at least not at this level. It's just stupid and a waste of time.
I also don't like how it basically paints the rest of wrestling as "that fake shit", whether it's true or not. I'd rather watch a match where the guys are working together to make something better than just their own skill, and making each other look good and trying to entertain us. If I want to watch MMA, boxing, etc, I watch that. Wrestling is by and large a more interesting display, though, and I'd like it to play to its own strengths instead of aping other things like that.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jun 24, 2014 21:59:17 GMT -5
I think they were using 'ultimate fighter' as a generic term to mean MMA figher. The term MMA, believe it or not, had not yer caught on in a big way in the mainstream and certainly not in the U.S. The layman person would have called an MMA fighter, "one of those ultimate fighter guys" or something to that effect. UFC and MMA didn't get really big until after the Ultimate Fighter reality show and the months and year or so following that.
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