Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,204
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 4, 2014 18:11:53 GMT -5
Robin Thicke is why Batman got rid of all the Twinkees and their golden cake goodness from the Batcave. ... Get it, because he's Thicke.
Okay, carry on.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 4, 2014 18:53:12 GMT -5
Bats is gonna live to regret that:
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,691
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Post by Renslayer on Jul 4, 2014 19:24:40 GMT -5
He's not a bad artist to me, and I can jam to Blurred Lines (I think there's something to the criticisms he, Pharrell and TI got, but as a song to jam to, it does its job), but the new songs and this transparent ploy to sell records by being a creep sucks.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jul 4, 2014 19:40:08 GMT -5
Music is art, it is open to interpretation, that is a big part of why it exists. It is an expression of an artist that is supposed to stir something in the person who is seeing or hearing the art form. As such, when you make art of any kind you need to look at what you made and decide if there are interpretations other than the one you intended that may be construed. If you cannot deal with one of the possible outcomes, maybe you don't release it. Or you try and describe why you decided too. Because it can be a talking point, it can open conversation to make the world a more understanding place.
Thicke went on the defense and rather than opening the conversation he tried to close it.
I have read the full lyrics and it is plain to see why people can see the song being rapey, and plain to see why people don't. If you deny either possible interpretation, well, they can both be seen there. Trying having the conversation rather than just denying and saying people are wrong. And for those who support the rapey side, explain your side. And to be fair, the rapey side, by and large, has been way more intellectual honest in this thing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 22:27:33 GMT -5
It's basically the discussion of the lyrics in all forms, if we go by the logic of 'it wasn't written to be about rape, or anything to do with sex at all because Thicke didn't intend it that way' then using phrases that people get triggered by in rape discussions is still pretty bad. Except there are no set terms that trigger someone that people need to avoid. Anything at all can and might cause an issue with someone during a traumatic event. The entire issue is by person to person. It's no fault of the song or any phrase, but a symptom of the event. I can understand that, but in a song where the phrases: 'Rip your arse in two' / 'You know you want it' / 'Blurred lines' are used it's less easy to dismiss it as nothing at all. You could arguably add in the phrase 'good girl' but that's just a thing I hate with men not calling women women and making them infantile/powerless/less than adults without realizing half the time etc. You're correct in ANY phrase possibly triggering someone off but 'you know you want it' and lines with similar links 'oh I thought you meant yes, I couldn't tell' which are often reported in rape cases is pretty worrying. It doesn't take much to listen/call rape crisis lines or help friends out going through the stuff to hear this stuff happen a lot, victim blaming and not taking no to mean no etc. Again, I get what you mean and I'm not trying to argue, but whether it was ignorance or because his label/promoter/agent knew a song like this would get him more attention -any publicity is good publicity etc- with those lines, it's still pretty easy to see why people are bothered by the song's lyrics. If not, then look up rape support cases in life or online (avoid personal cases, just actual general support websites so as not to upset yourself/make you think on past incidents etc) and it'll make all the sense in the world. Words are powerful, they're entirely open to interpretation, but our own life experiences will put a certain sheen on certain sentences which is where all our different sides are coming from within this discussion.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 4, 2014 22:41:31 GMT -5
I can see both sides of it, really. A lot of the lyrics, even within the context of the whole song (and not just the chorus), can be interpreted as rapey. While I also can see how people can interpret as not rapey. I think Thicke's egging on the controversy and his actions since have made it worse than it would've been otherwise.
But like I said before, the song's lyrics are pretty sleazy and sexist even if they're not about rape. And yet it became this really super-popular pop song hit that everyone and their mother got into. It's like "Every Breath You Take" getting so popular only Thicke isn't Sting and acting baffled that people think it's this sweet love song.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 4, 2014 23:04:17 GMT -5
Music is art, it is open to interpretation, that is a big part of why it exists. It is an expression of an artist that is supposed to stir something in the person who is seeing or hearing the art form. As such, when you make art of any kind you need to look at what you made and decide if there are interpretations other than the one you intended that may be construed. If you cannot deal with one of the possible outcomes, maybe you don't release it. Or you try and describe why you decided too. Because it can be a talking point, it can open conversation to make the world a more understanding place. Thicke went on the defense and rather than opening the conversation he tried to close it. I have read the full lyrics and it is plain to see why people can see the song being rapey, and plain to see why people don't. If you deny either possible interpretation, well, they can both be seen there. Trying having the conversation rather than just denying and saying people are wrong. And for those who support the rapey side, explain your side. And to be fair, the rapey side, by and large, has been way more intellectual honest in this thing. I wouldn't't call a group who made a more offensive song "parody", cheer for a family getting divorced or generally have formed opinions about the song before they actually heard it "intellectually honest".....
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jul 4, 2014 23:05:36 GMT -5
Trivia: Robin Thicke's second album was titled The Evolution of Robin Thicke and was built with crooning classics like "Lost Without You" that you could play at a wedding for the first dance of a bride and groom. By his sixth, he's coming out with stuff like "Blurred Lines," and now his seventh album is the "I'm sorry I cheated, please take me back and I might not cheat on you again" anthology.
It's like he's going backwards... >_<
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 4, 2014 23:32:39 GMT -5
Except there are no set terms that trigger someone that people need to avoid. Anything at all can and might cause an issue with someone during a traumatic event. The entire issue is by person to person. It's no fault of the song or any phrase, but a symptom of the event. I can understand that, but in a song where the phrases: 'Rip your arse in two' / 'You know you want it' / 'Blurred lines' are used it's less easy to dismiss it as nothing at all. You could arguably add in the phrase 'good girl' but that's just a thing I hate with men not calling women women and making them infantile/powerless/less than adults without realizing half the time etc. You're correct in ANY phrase possibly triggering someone off but 'you know you want it' and lines with similar links 'oh I thought you meant yes, I couldn't tell' which are often reported in rape cases is pretty worrying. It doesn't take much to listen/call rape crisis lines or help friends out going through the stuff to hear this stuff happen a lot, victim blaming and not taking no to mean no etc. Again, I get what you mean and I'm not trying to argue, but whether it was ignorance or because his label/promoter/agent knew a song like this would get him more attention -any publicity is good publicity etc- with those lines, it's still pretty easy to see why people are bothered by the song's lyrics. If not, then look up rape support cases in life or online (avoid personal cases, just actual general support websites so as not to upset yourself/make you think on past incidents etc) and it'll make all the sense in the world. Words are powerful, they're entirely open to interpretation, but our own life experiences will put a certain sheen on certain sentences which is where all our different sides are coming from within this discussion. The thing is, those are not exclusive to that song, or even to just the genre of music. Strange how it's this song, and only this song, that gets crapped on over this. Plus, the fact remains people are arguing about a song sounding rapey where the entire basis of the song Is Thicke asking the woman for consent to do something with her.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 23:48:25 GMT -5
I can understand that, but in a song where the phrases: 'Rip your arse in two' / 'You know you want it' / 'Blurred lines' are used it's less easy to dismiss it as nothing at all. You could arguably add in the phrase 'good girl' but that's just a thing I hate with men not calling women women and making them infantile/powerless/less than adults without realizing half the time etc. You're correct in ANY phrase possibly triggering someone off but 'you know you want it' and lines with similar links 'oh I thought you meant yes, I couldn't tell' which are often reported in rape cases is pretty worrying. It doesn't take much to listen/call rape crisis lines or help friends out going through the stuff to hear this stuff happen a lot, victim blaming and not taking no to mean no etc. Again, I get what you mean and I'm not trying to argue, but whether it was ignorance or because his label/promoter/agent knew a song like this would get him more attention -any publicity is good publicity etc- with those lines, it's still pretty easy to see why people are bothered by the song's lyrics. If not, then look up rape support cases in life or online (avoid personal cases, just actual general support websites so as not to upset yourself/make you think on past incidents etc) and it'll make all the sense in the world. Words are powerful, they're entirely open to interpretation, but our own life experiences will put a certain sheen on certain sentences which is where all our different sides are coming from within this discussion. The thing is, those are not exclusive to that song, or even to just the genre of music. Strange how it's this song, and only this song, that gets crapped on over this. Plus, the fact remains people are arguing about a song sounding rapey where the entire basis of the song Is Thicke asking the woman for consent to do something with her. Oh I agree, and it's not only this song which has had people in my life go 'wait, no, turn this off' to when they felt a bit awful/triggered, again I'm not speaking about a huge backlash (sorry if I didn't make that clear) other people were making, but in my life how people I've seen discuss the song/what it makes them remember. They've done the same for others songs too of course, as with everything in this discussion it's all anecdotal. It's just that this discussion is about Robin Thicke, and his attention stems entirely from this one song, so I take it that everyone knows this criticism should be leveled at other songs too. Someone in here earlier mentioned how Stone Temple Pilots - Sex Type Thing was the best way to possibly discuss horrid sexual occurrences but had the right tone to it/awareness of it's lyrics to put something across, whereas Blurred Lines failed on that completely y'know. The reason this song got more attention in public is due to it being pushed in ad campaigns and soundtracks given it's huge sales and such was it not? I mean, more sales = more attention = more backlash. Removing all personal opinions on it more people will talk about the thing which is pushed more/put on more playlists. I know I've heard the song in NBA 2k14 and scattered about off radio so maybe that's why more people have been aware. I could be wrong (I'm not looking up the backlash on the 'net as I mentioned before), but I've heard other songs targeted for the same issues the last few years too for similar reasons. Add in Thicke probably being told 'act a dumb ass and don't outright deny it' by his agents/PR people as a means of keeping his name in the light for being controversial (as many acts are told) then y'know. It goes into a cycle, all publicity is good publicity to those who see potential for future sales in possible notoriety. The latter point you mention was already dealt with by other posters earlier on so for the sake of not repeating things in a subject which could be sensitive for people I'll say it's worth going back a few pages. It's all about the phrasing, and I can see it both ways (approaching someone for the first time, Thicke's character being too full on and being turned down / approaching someone after they've said no and being a creep etc) but others have phrased that better than I'll be able to here. The interpretation and Thicke never actually saying 'oh it's about the former' means there's no fact born of artist intention in either interpretation at this point, hence the discussion.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jul 5, 2014 0:34:17 GMT -5
Trivia: Robin Thicke's second album was titled The Evolution of Robin Thicke and was built with crooning classics like "Lost Without You" that you could play at a wedding for the first dance of a bride and groom. By his sixth, he's coming out with stuff like "Blurred Lines," and now his seventh album is the "I'm sorry I cheated, please take me back and I might not cheat on you again" anthology. It's like he's going backwards... >_< All I got from that is that Robin Thicke has had two hits with seven albums inside of twelve years. And speaking of album number seven: www.eonline.com/news/556012/the-33-creepiest-most-uncomfortable-lyrics-on-robin-thicke-s-new-album-paula
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 5, 2014 0:40:43 GMT -5
Is Robin Thicke actually Alan Thicke's son? If he is it's kind of disappointing. Mike Seaver would never write such saucy, uncouth lyrics about women. Then again, the verdict is still out on Ben.
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Post by Stu on Jul 5, 2014 0:44:09 GMT -5
He should have followed his brother's footsteps and voiced cartoons.
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Post by Danimal on Jul 5, 2014 2:30:45 GMT -5
What kind of proof is that, though? It's entirely likely that those same lyrics have also been said by a suitor that a woman was attracted to and had a consensual encounter with later. Does that mean the song is unambiguously consensual? Rape is a crime that can involve sexual comments and innuendo from the perpetrator, since it is forcible sex. That doesn't mean that all sex and sexual come-ons are now rape-y. Re: the "I got something big enough..." line, he's bragging about how big he is. What else is new? He's trying to attract her with that boast, not threaten her. The video is totally sexist, though. No question about it. You have a point, but it's the combination of all these things that's the issue. But there is not only the fact that the tumblr deal totally takes the lyrics outside of context or intent("you know you want it" said conversationally is cocky, said by a guy on top of you is rapey" but you also have to look at the fact that this is his song folks are telling him the meaning of. As the creator I'd say it's his interpretation is what ultimately matters. The song does reek of cockiness and is certainly misogynistic but it isn't about forcing anyone into anything.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 5, 2014 7:15:54 GMT -5
You have a point, but it's the combination of all these things that's the issue. But there is not only the fact that the tumblr deal totally takes the lyrics outside of context or intent("you know you want it" said conversationally is cocky, said by a guy on top of you is rapey" but you also have to look at the fact that this is his song folks are telling him the meaning of. As the creator I'd say it's his interpretation is what ultimately matters. The song does reek of cockiness and is certainly misogynistic but it isn't about forcing anyone into anything. True, although that does rely on him actually telling the truth about what his songs are about. I'm not even famous and I constantly have to lie about my songs' subject matter to my family and sometimes friends if their interpreted meaning is correct but also offensive to them. Thicke's attitude around the thing has also been part of the problem, I don't get the impression he even sees where other people are coming from. I don't for a second see him as having deliberately written a song about rape, but it is some ways more insidious because of its implications for people who aren't necessarily 'up' on how consent works. And even if the rape aspect is taken out of it, yes it is massively misogynistic, especially when you include the video. And no he's not the first musician to be misogynistic but at the same time, that doesn't make it okay, that means it's already been going on too long.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 5, 2014 7:29:18 GMT -5
5 pages in and I'm still not quite sure who Robin Thicke is, and I definitely Have no idea about his supposed "rape song"
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,133
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 5, 2014 9:50:50 GMT -5
We've named him, the song which was heavily played over the last year, discussed the lyrics, what more could be brought up to identify things?
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 5, 2014 10:08:24 GMT -5
5 pages in and I'm still not quite sure who Robin Thicke is, and I definitely Have no idea about his supposed "rape song" Song in question: There's also an uncensored version of the video, where the models are topless for some reason. Thicke is the white guy in the video. As for my thoughts on the song, Mega MOP pretty much summed up my thoughts on it.
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