andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 9, 2014 20:45:41 GMT -5
So like a normal job
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 20:46:49 GMT -5
That fine shit is ridiculous. Especially since they're "independent contractors". If you're gonna treat em like employees, give em benefits. How Vince McMahon gets away with the independent contractor stuff is mind boggling to me. They own everything about their talent. Nothing about the talent is independent of the company. They can't work anywhere else, they have to abide by the company's rules, and the company owns their trademark. It's unbelievable. It's eventually going to bite them in the ass. There's no way that it doesn't, we're in a different time than the 80's,90's or even 00's. The shit will eventually hit the fan with a ferocity.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 9, 2014 21:00:14 GMT -5
Except not at all; not with the whole independent contractor fallacy. If they were truly independent, so long as they upheld their end of contracted dates, they could perform elsewhere, wouldn't have dress codes and the like etc. But the fact is, they're not. They're employees in all but name, which allows WWE to treat em as such, without having to give ANY sort of benefits any regular company would. It's bullshit.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 9, 2014 21:06:21 GMT -5
I have said it in multiple Threads, they should make the U.S. belt the new Cruiserweight Belt, and give everyone on the roster something to fight for, as it is, the Midcarrd is muddled with two belts of the me caliber, one gimmicked out to stay relevant in the IC Belt, and the other one switching hands every half a year in the U.S.
I would rather see WWE make a lower card belt again for their roster to get more screen time and purpose than Unify the belts and make your roster even more useless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:11:15 GMT -5
How Vince McMahon gets away with the independent contractor stuff is mind boggling to me. They own everything about their talent. Nothing about the talent is independent of the company. They can't work anywhere else, they have to abide by the company's rules, and the company owns their trademark. It's unbelievable. It's eventually going to bite them in the ass. There's no way that it doesn't, we're in a different time than the 80's,90's or even 00's. The shit will eventually hit the fan with a ferocity. I hope you're right for the sake of the talent, but if it hasn't been changed already, then I'm not sure what event is going to trigger the change. The WWE should be taken to court and sued over this. The fact that they haven't already doesn't give me hope that they ever will.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:12:26 GMT -5
Except not at all; not with the whole independent contractor fallacy. If they were truly independent, so long as they upheld their end of contracted dates, they could perform elsewhere, wouldn't have dress codes and the like etc. But the fact is, they're not. They're employees in all but name, which allows WWE to treat em as such, without having to give ANY sort of benefits any regular company would. It's bullshit. If all the wrestlers got up and said "We're on strike until you give us benefits" WWE would cave in about ten minutes.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 9, 2014 21:14:30 GMT -5
The Top guys would never do it. Hogan even shot down that idea in the 80's
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Post by molson5 on Jul 9, 2014 21:15:10 GMT -5
Not a lot of independent contractors are "truly independent" especially in the entertainment industry. If the federal government had a problem with the designation they would have gone after the company at some point in the last 30 years. Attitudes can change over time, but I think there's just this idea that entertainers are generally independent contractors. The WWE is unlikely to be dinged on it now since they've relied on the government's interpretation on this forever, and haven't substantively changed how they've contracted with wrestlers.
With the exception of Obamacare, it's really more of a tax designation than anything that has to do with benefits. It's not like Walmart is required to give all these great benefits that WWE wrestlers don't get. And even with Obamacare - the cost of that would pale in comparison to what they spend to treat injuries, run the wellness program, pay in downside guarantees to guys who can't work because of injuries, pay for rehab for former employees. And it's not like they've changed their designation recently to dodge that expense. And really, it's a net wash for the wrestlers, as independent contractors, they have access to cheaper insurance through Obamacare, as employees, they'd have to contribute to their plan through their paycheck anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:18:02 GMT -5
The Top guys would never do it. Hogan even shot down that idea in the 80's I'm not saying they WILL do it, but if they want to, it would work. WWE is in an extraordinarily weak position right now. Coming off their debacle with the Network and residual suspicion from the Benoit incident, a PR disaster would totally cripple them. They couldn't and wouldn't endure that sort of thing, and would give in to demands almost instantly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:18:14 GMT -5
It's eventually going to bite them in the ass. There's no way that it doesn't, we're in a different time than the 80's,90's or even 00's. The shit will eventually hit the fan with a ferocity. I hope you're right for the sake of the talent, but if it hasn't been changed already, then I'm not sure what event is going to trigger the change. The WWE should be taken to court and sued over this. The fact that they haven't already doesn't give me hope that they ever will. I think that it's more likely now than ever, just because there's nowhere else that the wrestlers can work and make anywhere near the same amount of money or exposure, so the fear of being blacklisted is lessened. Eventually the natives will get restless and someone will be released and pissed off and bring a lawsuit or something. The only problem is that the talent would probably need a pro bono lawyer, because the E will just pump money into dragging the case out until the wrestler is broke otherwise.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 9, 2014 21:33:36 GMT -5
I have said it in multiple Threads, they should make the U.S. belt the new Cruiserweight Belt, and give everyone on the roster something to fight for, as it is, the Midcarrd is muddled with two belts of the me caliber, one gimmicked out to stay relevant in the IC Belt, and the other one switching hands every half a year in the U.S. I would rather see WWE make a lower card belt again for their roster to get more screen time and purpose than Unify the belts and make your roster even more useless. A Cruiserweight Title wouldn't be for everyone. Guys like Fandango, Sandow, and Titus would be left out. I think that if they need a lower card belt they need to actually create a new one. Like a TV Title or bringing back the European Title. Demoting the US Title would just come off as WWE lording its victory over WCW in everyone's faces. The US belt has been stuck in limbo ever since Ambrose first won it as part of the Shield. It would be really difficult to get the U.S. title in the hands of a low carder when it's now being carried by a former WWE/World Heavyweight Champion. It's best to drop the US belt and make a new belt that the low carders can realistically shoot for.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 9, 2014 21:43:33 GMT -5
I have said it in multiple Threads, they should make the U.S. belt the new Cruiserweight Belt, and give everyone on the roster something to fight for, as it is, the Midcarrd is muddled with two belts of the me caliber, one gimmicked out to stay relevant in the IC Belt, and the other one switching hands every half a year in the U.S. I would rather see WWE make a lower card belt again for their roster to get more screen time and purpose than Unify the belts and make your roster even more useless. A Cruiserweight Title wouldn't be for everyone. Guys like Fandango, Sandow, and Titus would be left out.I Fandango and Sandow could compete for the belt, Titus maybe not, but Darren Young could when he's back from Injury.
Just make the Cruiserweight Belt more like the X Division Belt, no weight limit. That way more stars can compete for it as well and make it more of a big deal, while at the same time making the lower card more of a big deal by them being involved and competitive. I think it's the belt that's needed the most, maybe aside from a 24/7 belt where WWE could exploit the idea with tons of segments, but that would really just be a joke belt and not a serious one, though the roster would still be involved
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:52:00 GMT -5
The Top guys would never do it. Hogan even shot down that idea in the 80's Hogan likely shot the idea down in the 80's because it was before guaranteed contracts. Hogan, or any top guy, had no incentive to unionize because it would have greatly reduced their pay. The same applies today, but with guaranteed money, it's a lot less risky for the talent. I still don't expect anything to happen, unless someone like Cena starts fighting for it, which will never happen.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 9, 2014 22:21:10 GMT -5
It's a big part of why they treat their top names extraordinarily well, like how they'll, say, pay for Cena's airfare and what have you while midcarders need to pay their own way on a lot of tours; it means that guys in Cena's position don't have much incentive to back collective action by the other wrestlers.
When it comes down to it, WWE would likely have no compunctions about getting rid of the bulk of its roster and replacing it with NXT folks and new indy signings, so long as they keep their top main eventers in the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 22:27:24 GMT -5
If TNA was smart and not restricted by mama Carter they should just hand out guaranteed money right now and raid WWEs talent pool that are miserable.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 9, 2014 22:38:55 GMT -5
If TNA was smart and not restricted by mama Carter they should just hand out guaranteed money right now and raid WWEs talent pool that are miserable. If big time WWE and WCW guys couldn't move the needle, a bunch of disgruntled midcarders definitely won't.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Jul 9, 2014 22:41:14 GMT -5
Damn, Bryan just can't catch a break.
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ibdude
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Post by ibdude on Jul 9, 2014 22:58:59 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett can't start his new company any sooner.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 9, 2014 23:09:01 GMT -5
That fine shit is ridiculous. Especially since they're "independent contractors". If you're gonna treat em like employees, give em benefits. How Vince McMahon gets away with the independent contractor stuff is mind boggling to me. They own everything about their talent. Nothing about the talent is independent of the company. They can't work anywhere else, they have to abide by the company's rules, and the company owns their trademark. It's unbelievable. I think a sticking point you're always going to have with the idea of collective bargaining is this : it's going to diminish the earnings potential of the top guys, as they'll be brought down to a level closer to the bottom guys. Who is going to bust their ass to be the Main Event guy the way Cena has, when he's going to be paid close to the same level as Zack Ryder or Tyson Kidd?
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jul 9, 2014 23:23:29 GMT -5
A Cruiserweight Title wouldn't be for everyone. Guys like Fandango, Sandow, and Titus would be left out.I Fandango and Sandow could compete for the belt, Titus maybe not, but Darren Young could when he's back from Injury.
Just make the Cruiserweight Belt more like the X Division Belt, no weight limit. That way more stars can compete for it as well and make it more of a big deal, while at the same time making the lower card more of a big deal by them being involved and competitive. I think it's the belt that's needed the most, maybe aside from a 24/7 belt where WWE could exploit the idea with tons of segments, but that would really just be a joke belt and not a serious one, though the roster would still be involved
Paul London once told a story in Powerslam magazine of him suggesting this very thing to Vince McMahon, who looked at London as though he just defecated on the carpet and asked for a prize.
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