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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 15:46:37 GMT -5
Says who? Raw was here first and is live, that's the advantages it has over SmackDown. But a decade ago, there was nothing to suggest WWE "favoured" Raw. Hell, it was beneficial to WWE for people to like SmackDown as much as Raw, that was the whole point of the brand split in the first point. Only as time went on did SmackDown clearly become a "B-show". In 2006 when King Booker was champion, there was nothing to suggest WWE wanted you to like Raw better. If that's how you perceived it, then that's your prerogative. Didn't Booker get drafted to Raw an immediately become a midcarder? He held the world title from July 2006 until November 2006. He was drafted to Raw in June 2007, and no he wasn't a midcarder. His first match was a tag main event on Raw, he challenged for the WWE title at his first PPV, then feuded with Triple H, then quit when he didn't want to get suspended. Also if we use your logic, then Raw was the C-show in 2008 when CM Punk (who was losing to Chavo freakin' Guerrero on ECW) became world champion of Raw, the so called A-show.
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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 10, 2014 15:46:57 GMT -5
It would be cool if there was another Native American wrestler besides Tatanka. One who isn't a walking stereotype usually played by someone who isn't even Native. I'm Native myself and would like to see my people represented. I understand why that's not very realistic though, because there's like three of us left. Maybe I should become a wrestler. There is/Was Charlie Norris in WCW in the early 90s en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_professional_wrestlersBut here's a Wiki List......Of (supposedly) ACTUAL Native American wrestlers....Not just Italian Guys in a headress (*Cough* Chief Jay Strongbow *Cough*).... Though it doesn't list Norris and DOES list Kevin Nash Haha, I'll take Kevin Nash. I love that guy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 15:47:02 GMT -5
Where does Otunga fit into this, or did Vince draft him to team white guy at the last Racial Draft?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 10, 2014 15:50:20 GMT -5
I am so sick of the whole WM19 thing being incorrectly labelled as racist, I think I'm the only person in the world who actually got that promo. The whole "people like you" thing was in reference to B-level superstars, guys out there to entertain and be comic relief. "Do a little dance for me" - oh, did everyone suddenly forget that Booker's biggest pop move was the spin-a-roony, a comic relief move typically used by B-level entertainers. "nappy hair" - okay, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean so I'll call that a racist comment. I was shocked when HHH cut this promo because it acknowledged the fact that Booker T wasn't at HHH's level. The storytelling was great and it set Booker T up to enter the top main event level. Then of course the wrong guy went over and shot the whole thing to hell, but I'd chalk that up more to HHH politics and bad booking than racism. The writer actually does acknowledge my point that it was all painting Booker T as an entertainer below HHH's level, but rather than pointing out that the exact promo and storyline could have been cut on Buff Bagwell, Alex Wright, Disco Inferno, Scotty too Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Honky Tonk Man, or any other white b-level entertainer, he chooses to view it as racism. Do I know for a fact that this whole thing was not based on race as so many people choose to believe? No of course not. But which is more plausible? My theory, or the theory that they needed to risk the bad publicity of a racism angle because they had no other way of getting their rocks off? Pretty sure it's just you on that one. And, yes. Of course it's a problem. Whether WWE is willing to do anything about it is another story altogether. when I heard Triple H say "people like you" my first thought was b-list minor league guys.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 10, 2014 15:50:40 GMT -5
Didn't Booker get drafted to Raw an immediately become a midcarder? He held the world title from July 2006 until November 2006. He was drafted to Raw in June 2007, and no he wasn't a midcarder. His first match was a tag main event on Raw, he challenged for the WWE title at his first PPV, then feuded with Triple H, then quit when he didn't want to get suspended. Also if we use your logic, then Raw was the C-show in 2008 when CM Punk (who was losing to Chavo freakin' Guerrero on ECW) became world champion of Raw, the so called A-show. I actually wasn't watching Raw at the time, because it sucked, so all I'm going on is memories of people on this board and elsewhere talking about how terrible a Smackdown-level champion was when directly compared to a Raw-level champion. The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title were equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. Also I have no idea what your last sentence says.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 10, 2014 15:52:05 GMT -5
It would be cool if there was another Native American wrestler besides Tatanka. One who isn't a walking stereotype usually played by someone who isn't even Native. I'm Native myself and would like to see my people represented. I understand why that's not very realistic though, because there's like three of us left. Maybe I should become a wrestler. I would kind of love it if an obnoxious heel, like someone like Tyler Breeze, started going around insisting he doesn't count as white because he's actually "part Cherokee."
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,992
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 10, 2014 15:53:19 GMT -5
He held the world title from July 2006 until November 2006. He was drafted to Raw in June 2007, and no he wasn't a midcarder. His first match was a tag main event on Raw, he challenged for the WWE title at his first PPV, then feuded with Triple H, then quit when he didn't want to get suspended. Also if we use your logic, then Raw was the C-show in 2008 when CM Punk (who was losing to Chavo freakin' Guerrero on ECW) became world champion of Raw, the so called A-show. The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title are equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. But people are listing facts that did happen and how it will make no sense to charge each brand's ppv the same while actively encouraging customers smack-down doesn't matter but we still want your 40 bucks.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 10, 2014 15:56:02 GMT -5
The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title are equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. But people are listing facts that did happen and how it will make no sense to charge each brand's ppv the same while actively encouraging customers smack-down doesn't matter but we still want your 40 bucks. I mean, that's the thing, of COURSE on paper they were equal, because they'd never shoot themselves in the foot. But everyone knows they really weren't treated that way.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 16:00:26 GMT -5
He held the world title from July 2006 until November 2006. He was drafted to Raw in June 2007, and no he wasn't a midcarder. His first match was a tag main event on Raw, he challenged for the WWE title at his first PPV, then feuded with Triple H, then quit when he didn't want to get suspended. Also if we use your logic, then Raw was the C-show in 2008 when CM Punk (who was losing to Chavo freakin' Guerrero on ECW) became world champion of Raw, the so called A-show. I actually wasn't watching Raw at the time, because it sucked, so all I'm going on is memories of people on this board and elsewhere talking about how terrible a Smackdown-level champion was when directly compared to a Raw-level champion. The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title were equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. Also I have no idea what your last sentence says. The fact you are saying they weren't equal for a period of time is just you....well I didn't even know what it is. Especially considering you just admitted you didn't even watch Raw at the time to properly form your own opinion. Not sure how you can't comprehend what my last sentence was. Maybe if I put the series of events into a list it might help you: - CM Punk is on the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk is the champion of the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk loses said ECW championship to Chavo Guerrero, who sucks - CM Punk continues losing to Chavo Guerrero - CM Punk gets drafted to Raw, the "A-show" - CM Punk immediately wins the world title of Raw, the "A-show" By the logic you were obviously trying to present, Raw is obviously not as good as ECW or SmackDown if a guy who was losing on ECW jumps to Raw and immediately wins their world title.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 16:01:06 GMT -5
But people are listing facts that did happen and how it will make no sense to charge each brand's ppv the same while actively encouraging customers smack-down doesn't matter but we still want your 40 bucks. I mean, that's the thing, of COURSE on paper they were equal, because they'd never shoot themselves in the foot. But everyone knows they really weren't treated that way. Why? Because they had a black world champion?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 16:05:36 GMT -5
It would be cool if there was another Native American wrestler besides Tatanka. One who isn't a walking stereotype usually played by someone who isn't even Native. I'm Native myself and would like to see my people represented. I understand why that's not very realistic though, because there's like three of us left. Maybe I should become a wrestler. The Brisco Brothers were Native American, too.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 10, 2014 16:06:04 GMT -5
I actually wasn't watching Raw at the time, because it sucked, so all I'm going on is memories of people on this board and elsewhere talking about how terrible a Smackdown-level champion was when directly compared to a Raw-level champion. The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title were equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. Also I have no idea what your last sentence says. The fact you are saying they weren't equal for a period of time is just you....well I didn't even know what it is. Especially considering you just admitted you didn't even watch Raw at the time to properly form your own opinion. Not sure how you can't comprehend what my last sentence was. Maybe if I put the series of events into a list it might help you: - CM Punk is on the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk is the champion of the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk loses said ECW championship to Chavo Guerrero, who sucks - CM Punk continues losing to Chavo Guerrero - CM Punk gets drafted to Raw, the "A-show" - CM Punk immediately wins the world title of Raw, the "A-show" By the logic you were obviously trying to present, Raw is obviously not as good as ECW or SmackDown if a guy who was losing on ECW jumps to Raw and immediately wins their world title. Are you defending the idea that the brands were equal with an argument that assumes that the brands weren't equal? Also, would you seriously stop with the feigned surprise about all the people telling you you're wrong? One person might have "their own weird thing going on" that makes them think Raw was a bigger brand than Smackdown, but it really loses its purpose when you're telling multiple people about their totally bizarre and idiosyncratic (yet common) belief.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 10, 2014 16:06:05 GMT -5
The very fact that people are seriously sticking their fingers in their ears and acting like the Raw title and the Smackdown title are equal is... kind of fascinating, actually. But people are listing facts that did happen and how it will make no sense to charge each brand's ppv the same while actively encouraging customers smack-down doesn't matter but we still want your 40 bucks. and when Booker was World Champ they actually did an angle for Cyber Sunday with Cena as WWE champ, Booker as World Champ and Big Show ECW champ(at this point he was the second WWECW champ after RVD and inviting guys like DX, Flair and Batista to ECW to defend the title) where the fans could select which belt would be on the line in a Triple Threat Champ vs Champ vs Champ match and had no problem putting Booker over when he was the guy who's belt was on the line. Honestly when it comes to issues of race I think WWE is far worse with hispanics than African Americans and flat out terrible with Asians
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jul 10, 2014 16:07:59 GMT -5
I think they've certainly had severe problems in the past, but those problems are largely behind them. They do make liberal use of stereotypes, but that tends to be across the spectrum racially. If somebody has the talent, they seem willing to push them regardless of their race/ethnicity/etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 16:08:46 GMT -5
Says who? Raw was here first and is live, that's the advantages it has over SmackDown. But a decade ago, there was nothing to suggest WWE "favoured" Raw. Hell, it was beneficial to WWE for people to like SmackDown as much as Raw, that was the whole point of the brand split in the first point. Only as time went on did SmackDown clearly become a "B-show". In 2006 when King Booker was champion, there was nothing to suggest WWE wanted you to like Raw better. If that's how you perceived it, then that's your prerogative. Really though, to continue arguing about this really skirts around the "biggah pictchah." Even if you say SD wasn't the B-Show then, and I'm not convinced it wasn't, there's still the larger issue at hand here. I don't want to miss the larger point because we're going off the rails over here arguing about SD.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 16:09:32 GMT -5
The idea that the WHC was ever on the same level the WWE title is absolutely ludicrous. Despite being billed as "world champions," the WHC and ECW title were never booked with any more prestige than the Intercontinental or US belts.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 16:09:42 GMT -5
The fact you are saying they weren't equal for a period of time is just you....well I didn't even know what it is. Especially considering you just admitted you didn't even watch Raw at the time to properly form your own opinion. Not sure how you can't comprehend what my last sentence was. Maybe if I put the series of events into a list it might help you: - CM Punk is on the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk is the champion of the "C-show" ECW - CM Punk loses said ECW championship to Chavo Guerrero, who sucks - CM Punk continues losing to Chavo Guerrero - CM Punk gets drafted to Raw, the "A-show" - CM Punk immediately wins the world title of Raw, the "A-show" By the logic you were obviously trying to present, Raw is obviously not as good as ECW or SmackDown if a guy who was losing on ECW jumps to Raw and immediately wins their world title. Are you defending the idea that the brands were equal with an argument that assumes that the brands weren't equal? Also, would you seriously stop with the feigned surprise about all the people telling you you're wrong? One person might have "their own weird thing going on" that makes them think Raw was a bigger brand than Smackdown, but it really loses its purpose when you're telling multiple people about their totally bizarre and idiosyncratic (yet common) belief. No, I'm using your own nonsensical logic against you. Just as many people that are saying I'm wrong are agreeing with me and backing up my point that for several years Raw and SmackDown were portrayed as equals.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 10, 2014 16:10:30 GMT -5
Pretty sure it's just you on that one. And, yes. Of course it's a problem. Whether WWE is willing to do anything about it is another story altogether. when I heard Triple H say "people like you" my first thought was b-list minor league guys. A lot of b-level guys have nappy hair, and should just dance, too, I suppose...
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 10, 2014 16:10:37 GMT -5
They definitely have a woman problem.
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Post by bluemeii on Jul 10, 2014 16:11:29 GMT -5
Well it took 6 pages for this one to go off the rails. GJ everyone, getting better.
Lately it doesn't take near this long.
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