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Post by Sparvid on Jul 30, 2014 18:46:36 GMT -5
Quick tapouts to avoid injury are rare in WWE and they usually don't work thanks to the way WWE has made tapping out to a hold look in general. 1. If you tap out, you're a bitchy bitchy bitchfaced bitch and deserve chants to remind you of such. 2. If you tap out quickly, it's not so you avoid injury, it's because you suck and aren't very good and are probably a heel who has no upward momentum. Of the top of my head, I can only recall quick tapouts in Iron Man matches, where a wrestler figures that it's better to tap immediately and have time to make up for it, rather than being in a worse shape for the rest of the match.
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 30, 2014 18:51:13 GMT -5
I believe a submission should be treated as an injury if you're going to fight out of it. I'm fine with someone wanting to get out of the hold rather than tap, and maybe successfully break it by reversing it, grabbing a rope or something... but if you've been in the hold for a decent amount of time, that part of your body should be a handicap for the rest of the match. Meaning, if they work on your arm and your finisher is a lariat.... your finisher is done or at least lost 80% of its effectiveness... to the point where you have to rely on your other arm to deliver the shot. The point is to not demean a submission move and to give lasting effects to the hold being applied properly for a long time. That way, you put in the idea that although you got out of the hold... you're still at a huge disadvantage, and maybe you SHOULD have tapped.
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Jul 30, 2014 20:41:04 GMT -5
Nothing will ever beat Austin in the Sharpshooter to me. If you got some Fightin' Spirit GIMME A HELL YEAH! Submission finishers were never the same after that match, in my opinion. Austin popularized not tapping out.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 30, 2014 22:08:31 GMT -5
Nothing will ever beat Austin in the Sharpshooter to me. If you got some Fightin' Spirit GIMME A HELL YEAH! Submission finishers were never the same after that match, in my opinion. Austin popularized not tapping out. submission holds really weren't all that effective outside of jobber matches before that. And you almost never made someone you were actually feuding with submit
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jul 30, 2014 23:34:04 GMT -5
I think everyone who has said that submisson holds should be treated as a dead to rights finishers are pretty much spot on and like I said a few days ago in the HHH you tapped out thread, the whole tapping out is for pussies mindset that the WWE has glorified over the years is beyond idiotic. MMA has shown quite clearly that when a fighter has a arm or leg trapped in a tight submission hold they have only two choices tap or snap and the latter tends not to work out quite well. Also going back to the HHH/Brock feud... one of the things that really made that feud even worse is how it pointed out how inconsistent the WWE are when it comes to submission holds .The first time Brock breaks HHH's arm at first it is shown to point out how devastating Brock's Kimura lock is but then HHH acts like having his arm broken is no big deal. Second time the same and during their WM match its pretty much treated like a typical rest hold even though it shown in the WWEvise to be able to break arms.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 31, 2014 7:09:43 GMT -5
It's not a terrible idea but honestly, wrestling, particularly WWE style, is too set in its ways. It might get over eventually but in the short term it'd just kill crowds dead and probably kill a lot of wrestlers' heat first too.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jul 31, 2014 7:21:27 GMT -5
I think everyone who has said that submisson holds should be treated as a dead to rights finishers are pretty much spot on and like I said a few days ago in the HHH you tapped out thread, the whole tapping out is for pussies mindset that the WWE has glorified over the years is beyond idiotic. MMA has shown quite clearly that when a fighter has a arm or leg trapped in a tight submission hold they have only two choices tap or snap and the latter tends not to work out quite well. Also going back to the HHH/Brock feud... one of the things that really made that feud even worse is how it pointed out how inconsistent the WWE are when it comes to submission holds .The first time Brock breaks HHH's arm at first it is shown to point out how devastating Brock's Kimura lock is but then HHH acts like having his arm broken is no big deal. Second time the same and during their WM match its pretty much treated like a typical rest hold even though it shown in the WWEvise to be able to break arms. The fact that Daniel Bryan was going around saying "Tap or Snap"....only to have people struggle out of his submission holds really annoyed me. Especially when they hype him as this submission specialist. Granted, his success rate is higher now, but still.
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